Colorado, New Hampshire, Michigan, South Carolina

nicki,

Let's wait for the Heller decision and analyze how far it goes and what can/can't be used from it. I think you have a valid legal argument (not having actually researched it yet). Plaintiffs and lead counsel would need to carefully selected . . . and very committed. I'm not admitted in any of those states, but would help with behind-the-scenes research and writing.

Nicki I agree with you. We'll see, there's certainly privileges and immunities issues, especially with CO and SC since they don't allow non-residents to apply for their licenses.

Nicki,

I am already talking with the governor's office about my dissatisfaction with our OC law (can't OC in a vehicle without a permit). I would be happy to work on this, as I am a resident my words may hold some additional weight.

NH is one of the better states in the nation when it comes to firearms, but "better" is not "best".

How does New Hampshire discriminate against non-resident license holders?

NH only offers reciprocity to resident permit holders. Their non-resident permitting system is fairly straightforward and better than some, but still unfair.

New Hampshire is a bit different. It doesn't recognize non-resident permits, but it will issue a NH license to a non-resident for $20. That's hardly an issue. It's states like Colorado that do not issue non-resident permits that make things difficult.

NH only offers reciprocity to resident permit holders. Their non-resident permitting system is fairly straightforward and better than some, but still unfair.

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It's a lot better than the many states that don't even recognize resident licenses/permits from other states. Of course, those states don't practice discrimination -- they just disallow everyone. Not sure which is worse.

It's states like Colorado that do not issue non-resident permits that make things difficult.

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You do understand that Colorado's law does NOT mean that the state does not recognize non-resident permits, right?

The Colorado law applies only to residents of CO. In other words, if you have a permanent residence here, you have to get a CO permit. The reason for it is purely revenue; lots of residents were getting permits from different states that had better reciprocity across the country.

Out of state permits are still valid here, so long as it is a state we have reciprocity with.

If you can't get a NH non-resident permit then you don't know how to use the Postal Service. I think it's really unfair to lump NH in with the other states.

Actually, SC permits non-resident property owners to apply for CCWs.

Out of state permits are still valid here, so long as it is a state we have reciprocity with.

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Have you seen this?

Pursuant to Colorado law (CRS 18-12-213), the State of Colorado will recognize a valid permit issued in another state IF the permit was issued to a resident of the state issuing the permit, and the permittee is 21 yrs of age or older, AND the other state recognizes Colorado permits as valid in their state.

http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/reciprocity.asp

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SC just passed a new reciprocity bill that was signed by Governor Sanford (pro-gun governor) last Monday.

It will open up a lot more states to reciprocity. I don't have the list yet, but will try to keep an eye out for it and post when it is found.

I am all for erasing gun laws. All bad.

But I'd leave NH out out it.

If you have a concealed pistol permit where you live you can have a NH one for 20 bucks , zero hassle , 5 day turnaround in the mail , and open carry without one anyway. They pretty much mean it when they say Live free or die.

You do understand that Colorado's law does NOT mean that the state does not recognize non-resident permits, right?

The Colorado law applies only to residents of CO. In other words, if you have a permanent residence here, you have to get a CO permit. The reason for it is purely revenue; lots of residents were getting permits from different states that had better reciprocity across the country.

Out of state permits are still valid here, so long as it is a state we have reciprocity with.

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MachIVShooter, you are not completely correct. Our liberal criminal loving governor Bill Ritter signed a bill into effect that states that permits issued to people who are not a resident of the state that the permit was issued in are invalid in the state of Colorado. Out of state permits are recognized with states that have reciprocity with Colorado for people who are also a resident of that state. In effect, Colorado residents must have a Colorado permit - not a Utah permit to Carry. This effected my wife who had only her Utah permit ($50) and forced our family to come up with the $150 for a Colorado permit, increasing revenue for the state. People who live in Wisconsin or Illinois who can not get a permit in their state of residency and have say a Utah or Florida permit are no longer allowed to carry in Colorado because their permit was not issued from their state of residency. Colorado does not issue permits to non residents, so these people are out of luck in Colorado. To me Colorado is directly violating a persons 2nd Amendment rights with this law.

Welcome to the new Peoples Republic of Colorado courtesy of our liberal city dwellers along the front range - Most of whom moved here from California it seems to get away from their problems there and just brought their issues to our state...

I believe that 'licenses of convienience' as a means to end-run state law are low road...

Seems like we just had this discussion,

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=369208

Lets cut your activism by 75%

nicki
Location: Fresno ca

I'm just guessing but believe you probably have a non resident permit from Utah.(Which your own state will not honor)
Instead of worrying about other states, work on CA.
CA will NOT honor any permit from any other state whether it is a resident permit or non-resident.

Just bring your resident CA permit to MI and it will be honored .
I know our state laws could use some improvement but we are way ahead of most other states,

Until next weeks discussion
thumbody

What is a "license of convenience"?

What exactly is the issue here? I live in Colorado, and have a Colorado permit. Why on Earth would a person that lives in one state, need/want/deserve to have a CCW permit from a different state? You can only have a drivers license from one state, what's the difference?

Alexfubar said:

If you have a concealed pistol permit where you live you can have a NH one for 20 bucks , zero hassle , 5 day turnaround in the mail , and open carry without one anyway.

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New Hampshire will issue a permit if someone has a valid permit from any other state. So someone from a state where permits are not issued or issued very rarely could get a NH permit using another non-resident permit (eg Florida or Utah).

According to the New Hampshire Nonresident Pistol/Revolver License application:

A non-resident pistol permit will not be issued unless you supply:
1) A copy (front & back) of your valid concealed carry permit issued by the state, county, or town in which you
reside, or a valid concealed permit issued by any other state.

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rondog said:

What exactly is the issue here? I live in Colorado, and have a Colorado permit. Why on Earth would a person that lives in one state, need/want/deserve to have a CCW permit from a different state? You can only have a drivers license from one state, what's the difference?

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Maybe someone lives in a state where they cannot get a permit (eg Illinois) ar lives in a state with very poor reciprocity (eg Oregon). They could get a widely recognized permit such as Florida or Utah so they can carry when out of state.

Or maybe they are travelling to a state where their permit is not recognized and want to ba able to carry there. New Hampshire is a good example of this--my Texas permit is not honored there, so if I ever was travelling to there I would apply for a permit so I could carry there.

Perhaps they want to comply with federal law. According to the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1995 (the one enacted and still in force after the original one was struck down in US v. Lopez), it is illegal to carry a gun within 1000 feet of a school. There is an exception made for permit holders of the state where the school is located, but the ATF does not interpret that exception to apply to out-of state permits that the state honors.

Rondog, here's another couple of reasons.

I was going to get a Utah nonresident license in addition to my resident Colorado license so that in case I lost my wallet, I could carry here in Colorado on my nonresident Utah license.

I also felt that, come renewal time, if I got dumb and forget to renew, or the county got dumb and there was a hangup in my renewal, or whatever, I would still be able to carry on my Utah nonresident license.

All this, until the Colorado Legislature and the Colorado Governor decided that it was to the health, benefit, and welfare of Coloradans to not recognize non-resident licenses from other States.

This was yet another example of how anti-gunners operate. In this case, they were darned sure that nobody could "reasonably" object to this and few did. (Yeah, I know, some of you out there fought long and hard against this law.)

I foresaw this problem when that law was proposed simply because I could see how it would affect me directly and I bellyached about it quite a bit on this site.

But I guess it was one of those things where too many people were not affected by it so they didn't care.

After all, it was a "reasonable" law.

Right?

Lesson learned?

And black rifles should be banned because they don't have finely figured walnut stocks and glossy blued steel, like my beloved hunting rifles.

And short-barreled shotguns should be banned because they are not suitable for hunting geese.

Right?

Let he who has ears, hear, and he who has eyes, see, Rondog.

I thought that was true in Kansas as well. If you read the law itself it seems to say that all permits are honored, but Kansas residents must have a Kansas permit.

Then the Attorney General's site says only permits from your home state are recognized.

http://www.ksag.org/files/shared/75-7c-01.pdf

And black rifles should be banned because they don't have finely figured walnut stocks and glossy blued steel, like my beloved hunting rifles.

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Hmm, My black rifle is my big game rifle. I guess the media likes to brainwash the ignorant as to how effective the black rifle is as a big game gun, especially since you can get them in .300 SAUM.

Rondog, a couple of reasons IMO.

I moved last year from Colorado to Mississippi (yeah, leave it alone). I had both Colorado and Utah permits. The Colorado permit had to be surrendered as soon as I was no longer a Colorado resident. Mississippi requires a minimum 120 days to grant a permit, longer if you don't have an out of state permit to surrender to them. So by having my Utah permit (which Mississippi recognizes) I was able to legally carry (IMO) in Mississippi during the multi-month period in which neither Colorado nor Mississippi would grant me a resident permit.

Another reason to have a permit from a state in which you're not resident is that not all states have the shall-issue rule that Colorado has. So a local sheriff might decide that you're not good enough for a permit. That'd be a good reason, IMO, to seek an out of state permit.

Yet another reason is that some states don't offer reciprocity at all. I believe that Nevada and Oregon, for example, grant permits to non-residents, but do not recognize permits from other states.

So I think there are a number of valid reasons for an individual to seek a permit from a state in which he's not resident.