I was almost involved in 2 shootings (part 2 of 2)

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Eric F

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So after the event on Thursday
I was in very close proximity of a gun battle http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375587
I was still a bit on edge Friday. We had a family bbq and my wife’s folks came over. They left and said they would be back for my nephew’s bikes and plates they brought later. Ok that’s fine. In the mean time my wife wanted to take our daughter over to a friend’s house and let her play with our friends kids. I was in the kitchen with the radio on listening to music I had just gotten off the phone with my wife so I knew she was gone I had just let the cat:barf: (ok don’t get me started!) in the house and I was doing dishes. I have almost never carried my gun in my house but sometimes keep it very close up high out of reach. A few hours had passed since the in-laws left and I had just finished washing dishes. I started putting dishes away when I heard something I couldn’t exactly tell what it was and assumed it was the cat getting into something again. Then I heard some foot steps creaking on out hard wood floors!:eek: My mouth got instantly dry because no one was supposed to be in the house and I had locked the doors! I was instantly mad and scared at the same time( a real bad combination):fire: I drew my 1911 took the safety off and listened for a second and could hear the steps were just out side the kitchen so I stepped around the corner sweeping the dining room as I rounded the corned I did have my finger on the trigger! Just as I get the target in view there is my Father in law standing there looking angry at me! I pause for a second and take the gun down and stick it back in my waist band and the argument ensues!
Why are you pointing a gun at me!
What the hell are you doing in my house!
I came to get the bikes!
They are out side!
I just wanted to let you know I was here!
How did you get in!
I have a spare key……..why do you have a pistol!
He is a half liberal anti pistol kind of guy. We have had it out before about guns in my house and his usual argument the baby can get into your guns, ammunition, reloading equipment ect. We have also had words several times about him just showing up unannounced coming over to hang out and now just walking on in my house. I asked why he didn’t ring the door bell knock or at least give a yell when he came in? His reply I didn’t think it was necessary. I chewed him out a bit and he stomped off to load the bikes. I called my wife and was telling her about it when he came back inside and said he was calling the police. I said what ever and he left. I am still angry over the whole thing. I thought about calling the police first but decided not to and let my wife handle him. As I thought the police never came over but I am sure this fight is not over yet.
 
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Sounds like the father in law needs a lesson in manners regarding coming into houses unannounced. I would also consider re-keying your house, and don't give them a key! If you are lucky, staring down the business end of a 1911 will wake him up, but probably not.
 
He's calling the police...because you drew your weapon on a trespasser in your home? That's ridiculous. I'm sure LE officer would have seen it similarly.

Why is he using a spare key in your home without at the very least ascertaining whether anyone is home? Especially when the bikes were outside? THAT sounds suspicious to me.
 
guy sounds like a real winner,my wife's uncle is like that,always walking in and such,my advise to you is this,have a sit down with him,explain that even tho you are cool with him coming over,that is if you are,you would like for him to call before hand,atleast knock before barging in,tell him ,how would he feel if he walked in and you and his daughter were having sex on the couch?dont think he will want to see that,dont have to say ,hey i might blow your brains out one on these times,hjopefully this works for youin my case with her uncle i flat out told him,if you do it again i am going to beat your ass,but on my defence i dont like him at all,can understand how you are feeling after being soo close to a gunfight,try talking to someone about it,can understand how it would have you on edge,talking usueally helps when you are on overdrive,hope it works out for you
 
I've got a spare key to my father's house-- and I have an armed father and mother.

When I go to the house, I knock. If they don't answer, I usually look in the garage to see if a car is missing. If they are all there, I often call the house on my cell phone from the door. It's a big house, and they many not hear me knock (no ringer on the back door-- which I use often)

Barring any response-- and I have a need to get in the house-- I unlock the door. I'll immediately know if they are gone if the security system starts beeping, and I'll key in the code and make myself at home. If it doesn't start beeping, I yell back into the house that I'm here.

What I DON'T do is go walking through the house unannounced. At best, I don't get shot. At worst, I don't walk into something that could result in years of therapy.


My Dad does the same thing if he has to enter my house as well.


After the break-in we had in Dec. 2006, our entire family has changed our awareness of entering homes.



Your father-in-law, if you will pardon me, is a twit.


-- John
 
I call it a draw--50% culpability for each person in creating an unnecessarily dangerous situation.
 
guy sounds like a real winner
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Indeed.

Rekey the house ASAP. Maybe I'm just of a paranoid sort, but I'd not be surprised that after this run in, you FIL "drops by" and removes those evil guns for the safety of his granddaughter. You being so unstable as to stalk around the house with a loaded pistol and all.

I'll never understand the mindset of just entering another home unannounced and unbidden if not bent on mischief. Over the years I've had keys to several homes of family and friends, and even when they've asked me to do stuff like feed the cat while away, I will always knock first. Just on the off chance that they came home early.
 
That's the weapon's purpose. When you heard someone in the house, you checked it out safely. No one was shot.
Make him understand that.

Sound like typical "You're just the husband, but she's MY little girl!" type conflict.

Change the locks, police up the keys, and make your wife understand that if she caves in to the demands for the new key (and they will demand), that someone could be killed next time.

More importantly, if you don't man up and draw some boundaries, this guy will be running your house for the next 20 years.
 
I call it a draw--50% culpability for each person in creating an unnecessarily dangerous situation.
Click to expand...


I disagree. When you KNOW the wife isn't anywhere around (he just got off the phone with her), and then you hear someone bumping around in your house, I see NOTHING that places blame on the OP.

As I see it.....


In my house, two adults and two dogs live here. The Jack Russells follow me whereever I go. If I am here, and I have the JRTs looking up at me wanting doggie-bisquits, and Jenn is off with her Mom or something (and I just spoke to her), and THEN I hear someone IN my house....

I can do the math:

Jenn gone.............. Check
Hattie at my feet.... Check
Josie jumping on my leg.......Check
I'm not having an out-of-body-experience....... Check

Who ELSE is supposed to be in this house? No one.


THEY are at fault when (not if) I come through with a firearm.



-- John
 
had a father in law like that

I had a dog that was very aggressive and very protective of my daughter. When my father in law came back for a visit from Arizona, I told him to stay away from the dog and not to touch my daughter when he was in the dog's eyesight.

That evening my daughter went out to feed the dog.(we had him chaned out side because of the visitors) My father in law tried to scare her by grabbing her by the shoulders and yelling boo. The dog missed his crotch by less than an inch. If he had been chaned to a tree instead of the deck, he would have gotten my father in law right in a very sensitive spot.

He came back in the house and started yelling about how could we have an aggressive dog like that and that he should borrow a gun and shoot the dog. My daugther's response was to sneak out the back door and bring the dog in the laundry room. She closed the door and the dog started digging at the door trying to get thru. She told my father in law that she did not like people threatening her dog and that she figured he would be thru the door in about 1 minute.

My father in law turned white and left. He never came back in my house in the remaining 10 years that he was alive.:D
 
Quote:
I call it a draw--50% culpability for each person in creating an unnecessarily dangerous situation.
Click to expand...


I disagree. When you KNOW the wife isn't anywhere around (he just got off the phone with her), and then you hear someone bumping around in your house, I see NOTHING that places blame on the OP.
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Nah. Someone has a key to the house and, somehow, he doesn't know about it.

Plus, he knew that the old man was coming back for the bikes.

The OP gets 50% of the blame for creating the unnecessarily dangerous situation.

Of course, the FIL is culpable for walking into a house using a key that the owner (a known gun-owner/carrier) doesn't know about. (I don't speak of legal blame--if the OP shoots the FIL, he may very well be OK legally.)

I call it a draw. No pun intended....
 
FCFC,

We are going to have to disagree.

I refuse to give blame to a person responding to a person in his house with certainty that it isn't an occupant in such a manner.

Every month, the Water guy comes and reads my meter. So does the Power guy. I have no expectations that they will use a key and come in my home.

Even if the FIL WAS coming for the bikes, there should have been NO reason to believe that he would be in the house unannounced or without permission.

I'll concede that the one thing that the OP did to contribute to this situation was giving the FIL a key to begin with.

But you know what? In many cases, that isn't realistic. My FIL and MIL both have keys to my house. So do my Mother and Father.

I have to have this because of where we live and the sometimes need for someone to do something at my home while I am away.

But I can say unequivocably that my parents and in-laws know better than this guy.


-- John
 
More importantly, if you don't man up and draw some boundaries, this guy will be running your house for the next 20 years.
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Well folks this is my point. We have had issues and words over this and I have drawn lines. He repeatedly disobeys my rules and wishes. I have been talking with my wife about this all morning and He will be told today that yesterday was the last time. Next time tresspassing charges will be taken out. He is not to come over any more with out being asked to. It is sad that it has come to this but we are thrugh with it. And BTW I though catching us on the couch would have stoped it already but it didnt!
Nah. Someone has a key to the house and, somehow, he doesn't know about it.

Plus, he knew that the old man was coming back for the bikes.
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I gave the key to him 8 years ago. I was never a problem until he retired. Yes I did know he was comming for the bikes but they went in my house they were in the drive way. what dont you understand about that. He had no reason at all to come into my house.
 
Tell your FIL that whenever he comes to someone's house he should announce himself out of courtesy if not a sense of self preservation. Remind him that since he isn't contributing to the rent/mortgage he has no real or perceived rights to access to the property. While he's always welcome, he should show the respect to family that he would to strangers.

If he brings up the gun, tell him he should thank God that you followed good gun handling practices and identified your target before shooting.

I don't think you need to rekey the place unless you don't want him having access under any circumstances.

Now, put in a simple alarm system that incorporates a door annunciator so that anyone coming through a door is announced if the alarm isn't on.
 
"His reply I didn’t think it was necessary."

I bet he rings the damn doorbell next time! :what:

"He had no reason at all to come into my house."

Bingo. That he has a key is irrelevant. That he was coming back for the bikes is also irrelevant. I have keys to various family members houses and friends, and you NEVER enter another persons house unless asked to or announcing yourself loudly as in ring bell, knock, etc. Having a key to a person's house is not, at any time, and open invite to use it, unless that's been stated by owner. That's just common decency. It also means there will not be altercations and or walking in on people during 'private' moments, etc. Any person here who can't grasp that needs to rethink the concepts of common decency and respect for each others homes and privacy. Home owner was 100% correct, in-law 100% wrong and lucky it ended as it did. He should have apologized and realized his mistake. I'm amazed this is even a question in this thread.
 
Nah. Someone has a key to the house and, somehow, he doesn't know about it.

Plus, he knew that the old man was coming back for the bikes.
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I gave the key to him 8 years ago. I was never a problem until he retired. Yes I did know he was comming for the bikes but they went in my house they were in the drive way. what dont you understand about that. He had no reason at all to come into my house.
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You knew he had a key? And had used it before????

I re-evaluate. OP gets 55% of the culpability for unnecessarily creating an avoidable dangerous situation. (Not referring to legal liability, of course.)
 
Knocking is a thing of respect.

The house that I grew up in is the house my parents still live in. I do not live there anymore and therefore it is not my house. My parents have never asked this of me, but I show them the respect that they deserve and knock before I enter THEIR house.

I require the same at my house. If you do not live in this house YOU KNOCK before you enter.

Even at My inlaws house I knock. My wife will just walk in and I will remind her that it is not her house and she needs to knock.

The Father In Law needs a lesson in respect.
 
You knew he had a key? And had used it before????
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Ok let me clear it up again He has had a key for 8 years this is the first time he has used it to come in the house while we were home. He has just walked in the house a few times because a door was left unlocked. like when I am running boxes from the garage to the attic or somthing to that nature.
 
I hope this isn't a highjack, but I think it bears mentioning.

There was a couple "tells" as to a potential future for Eric. I don't want this one to hit you when you don't see it coming.

He is a half liberal anti pistol kind of guy. We have had it out before about guns in my house and his usual argument the baby can get into your guns, ammunition, reloading equipment ect.

>>SNIP<<

I called my wife and was telling her about it when he came back inside and said he was calling the police.

>>SNIP<<

As I thought the police never came over but I am sure this fight is not over yet.
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I think the "Control" aspect is strong with this one.

First thing.... this is the kind of guy that VERY WELL may call Child Services on you and incinuate to them that your children are in danger.

He probably won't do this as long as he wants to keep some relationship with his daughter, however.

But...


And I hesitate to say this. I'm not making any appraisals of your wife-- please don't think that. But as a guy who's been through a divorce AND had his eyes raked out by lawyers (I actually ended up paying alimony from a 5 year marriage that produced no children! I had to go back to court to after she tried to continue to get alimony AFTER remarrying!)

If you and your wife EVER have trouble and divorce, you can bet your bottom dollar that this and your gun ownership WILL come up in a custody hearing. You can further bet that the FIL will be making accusations that you are an unfit parent and your children are in danger.

If it is a court battle, you may well have this collaberated by others who just want to win.

Again, I am not making judgements on anyone... but I don't want you to NOT have this somewhere tucked in the back of your mind.



-- John
 
Ok let me clear it up again He has had a key for 8 years this is the first time he has used it to come in the house while we were home. He has just walked in the house a few times because a door was left unlocked.
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You knew he had a key? And he had been foolish enough to walk into your house unannounced before????

And also that this confirmed foolish man was coming back to your house for the bikes???


OK, you're up to 57-58% in culpability for creating an avoidably dangerous situation. (Not necessarily legal liability, of course.)
 
FCFC I compare your comments to this. You are 100% culpable if you are hit by a drunk driver because you know people drink and drive. And you created this situation by being on the road knowing this information.
 
I don't see where Eric F did anything wrong. I would never go into to my daughter and son-in-law's home unannounced for I know they also have a gun.
His father-in-law knew he had a gun because they had "discussed" it before.
Had this been at my house I would have reacted the same as Eric F.
Eric F's father-in-law was wrong.
So far the score is Eric F -1, Father-in-law -0
 
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