I was almost involved in 2 shootings (part 2 of 2)

[rainbowbob]

First of all...I hadn't seen Part 1 until just now. Yikes! That was a bad situation and I'm glad the OP got out OK.

As to aiming a gun at the FIL with his finger on the trigger - undoubtedly the first incident had you on edge - but I still think you over-reacted.

The FIL was supposed to be picking up stuff from outside the house. In my family at least it would have been strange if the relative/in-law didn't come in to say hello and let me know they had picked up their stuff.

Are you suggesting it's not possible for someone to break in without making noise? Or that the OP would be able to hear any such noise? You are assuming way too much.

Sure...it's possible that it could have been a stealth break-in. But it was MUCH more likely it was the FIL with a key coming by for his stuff - just like he said he was going to do.

In either case, my suggestion was to assume it is the FIL - but shout out from behind cover with a drawn firearm until that assumption was confirmed.

From what he wrote in Part 1, apparently the OP agrees with that tactic:

I have made several decisions and next time I will find a defendable position and stay there.

 

[Jguy101]

Sure...it's possible that it could have bee a stealth break-in. But it was MUCH more likely it was the FIL with a key coming by for his stuff - just like he said he was going to do.

In either case, my suggestion was to assume it is the FIL - but shout out from behind cover with a drawn firearm until that assumption was confirmed.

As the OP has stated, the bikes the FIL was picking up were out on the Driveway, presumably where they would be easily seen, so he had no reason to be in the house.

 

[rainbowbob]

As the OP has stated, the bikes the FIL was picking up were out on the Driveway, presumably where they would be easily seen, so he had no reason to be in the house...

Like I said...

The FIL was supposed to be picking up stuff from outside the house. In my family at least it would have been strange if the relative/in-law didn't come in to say hello and let me know they had picked up their stuff.

To be sociable - and if for no other reason than to let me know the stuff hadn't been stolen. Certainly the FIL should have "yoo-hooed" - but if I had pulled a gun on my MIL every time she came into our house - she wouldn't be making me enchiladas even as we speak.

 

[velobard]

Erik, sounds like it's been quite a week for you. Checked your blood pressure lately?

I can relate to having someone walk in the house unannounced. A couple weeks ago I was sitting in the living room watching TV and heard the front door open. It took a second or two for me to realize everyone was already home. I didn't draw, but I did have a couple of fingers on the grip. Turned out it was my oldest step-daughter's friend, for some reason she decided it would be a good idea to just walk in without knocking. She's not exactly my favorite person, not what you'd call a positive influence and has more than her share of bad judgement. I don't think she saw my gun, but I had a few words with her about just walking into the house. With a few teenagers at home it's hard to keep the doors locked during the day.

FCFC, all I can say is that your posts to both of Erik's thread are real "winners". Good grief, talk about a Monday morning quarterback.

 

[Husker1911]

Some posters basking in hindsight, here. It's ridiculous, the amount of second-guessing occurring in the OP's two threads.

 

[Eric F]

but if I had pulled a gun on my MIL every time she came into our house - she wouldn't be making me enchiladas even as we speak.

I am glad you have an open door policy at your residence.........it is not that way at mine and as stated I have talked to him about this before.

Checked your blood pressure lately?

you cant put enough mercury in a cement mixer to take my blood pressure these days!

 

[rainbowbob]

It's ridiculous, the amount of second-guessing occurring in the OP's two threads.

As I said...

I recognize I am second-guessing an incident that I was not involved in - but I think you (and I) should expect second-guessing when we post about incidents in which we are involved. I have received feed-back (including criticism) on my actions in situations I have posted about - that is why I posted in the first place. I am interested in hearing about what (if anything) I did right - what I did wrong - and what I could have/should have done differently. I'm here to learn from my fellow High Roaders. I'm not looking for cheer-leaders.

 

[RPCVYemen]

I drew my 1911 took the safety off and listened for a second and could hear the steps were just out side the kitchen so I stepped around the corner sweeping the dining room as I rounded the corned I did have my finger on the trigger! Just as I get the target in view there is my Father in law standing there looking angry at me!

Whatever the justification and super ninja tactical tactics, you ended up with your pistol pointed at a completely innocent man - with your finger on the trigger.

You need to figure out how to change your tactics so that you don't do that. Quit blaming your father-in-law for your actions.

• Your father-in-law may be the world's biggest wit.
• Your father-in-law should have announced himself.
• Your father-in-law may be an anti-gun liberal.
• Your father-in-law may be a three headed Martian for all I know.
• Your father-in-law did not point a gun at a completely innocent man, with your finger on the trigger - you did that.

If you are going to use a weapon for self defense, you need to assume responsibility for your action.

Time to cowboy up!

Mike

 

[Elza]

Eric, my only comment is to keep your finger off of the trigger. To easy to fire without intending to do so if you are startled. Otherwise, I’m with you 100%.

Our son (now 19) lives at home. If he comes in after lights-out he always calls first to let us know he is coming in the house. His friends have occasionally asked him why he always does this. His response: Because I don’t want to get shot! Actually, he knows that I would never fire unless I was absolutely, positively, 100% sure of my target even to the point of endangering myself. He only says this to get a rise from his friends. But he calls as a courtesy so we won’t get concerned at the noise. It has been a long standing rule of the house and he has never failed to abide by it.

OTOH, if he and my wife are in their beds, anything else is fair game. At that point I will not take any chances. When the only two people that I care about are accounted for there should not be anyone else in my home and they will be treated accordingly.

 

[Eric F]

Your father-in-law may be the world's biggest wit.
Your father-in-law should have announced himself.
Your father-in-law may be an anti-gun liberal.
Your father-in-law may be a three headed Martian for all I know.
Your father-in-law did not point a gun at a completely innocent man, with your finger on the trigger - you did that.

Lets try this out
Your Father in Law was trespassing! if he wernt in the house he would not have a gun pointed at him. Lets try blaming the person braking the law, not the law abiding citizen minding his own business in his own home.

 

[FCFC]

Lets try this out
Your Father in Law was trespassing! if he wernt in the house he would not have a gun pointed at him. Lets try blaming the person braking the law, not the law abiding citizen minding his own business in his own home.

You know, there is still another thing that is both important and hasn't come up yet in this thread. That is that we have only one side's report of an adversarial event.

It would be nice to get the FIL's account of what took place that night. That might clear up some things. I wonder what the FIL would say about some crucial points.

It's really hard to do a reasonable critique of an adversarial event with only one side of the story. Everybody knows that.

 

[rainbowbob]

...you ended up with your pistol pointed at a completely innocent man - with your finger on the trigger...

Eric:
You should at least be able to grasp the fact that you had - by your own account - very poor trigger control in that situation. An involuntary twitch of your finger could have been the most disastrous and defining moment of your life.

You should also grasp that - again by your own account in Part 1 - you failed to follow your own tactical decision to stay put.

 

[Eric F]

This is not a court case FCFC you need a real reality check here what are you some sort of lawyer?

I think I am about done with my own thread here just because of folks blaming the good guys for doing right!

very poor trigger control in that situation.

What do you mean? I did not discharge the gun so I feel I had 100% trigger control

An involuntary twitch of your finger could have been the most disastrous and defining moment of your life.

Maybe but not for me as I would have been alive. I felt threatened there was an unwanted person in my house justifiable homicide.....maybe maybe not that would have to be determined by a court in that case

you failed to follow your own tactical decision to stay put.

Again I never left the kitchen I mearly "sliced the pie" to the dining room.

 

[FCFC]

I think I am about done with my own thread here just because of folks blaming the good guys for doing right!

BTW, I was wondering. Was there any drinking at the BBQ? I'm curious as to whether alcohol was involved in the event. Or can we rule that out?

 

[Elza]

Amazing, simply amazing. We are supposed to be supporting the RKBA. Be it sport, hunting, or self-defense. Here is a man that knows that no authorized (I repeat; AUTHORIZED) person is in his house and takes a gun to protect himself. Suddenly, he is the bad guy.

Responses of this nature I would expect to see from the Brady Bunch.

 

[Husker1911]

BTW, I was wondering. Was there any drinking at the BBQ? I'm curious as to whether alcohol was involved in the event.

BTW, when did you quit beating your wife?

 

[tinygnat219]

Meh.

I think both of you are making too much of the situation.

Yeah, FIL should have knocked, called, or at least announced with a "howdy Jim" or something like that.

You, not expecting him, took good steps to ensure your safety.

You are going to have to deal with the FIL for the next several years if his health is good. You also owe it to your spouse to try and have a healthy relationship with him so she isn't always caught in the middle. The most you can do is meet him halfway.

Invite him over, break out some beers and have a heart to heart with your wife present about these being the house rules that need to be followed if he is visiting. Her presence there will reinforce the unity that you all are presenting as a married couple. If he doesn't accept your rules, then demand the key back.

 

[Eric F]

Was there any drinking at the BBQ?

Sure there was but not by me, I knew I would be out later driving so I was not drinking. Not to mention it was in the upper 90's and I was not willing to further dehydrate my sellf with alcohol.

Dude please give it up Was I drinking........Let me ask you a question ARE YOU DRINKING?

Invite him over, break out some beers and have a heart to heart with your wife present about these being the house rules that need to be followed if he is visiting. Her presence there will reinforce the unity that you all are presenting as a married couple. If he doesn't accept your rules, then demand the key back.

We have done this I her and we have talked to him I have had him over for beer boats fishing worked on his car done all the stuff I can do in a friendly manner but he refuses to comply with my/our wishes about visiting we do have the keys back now.done today. I will just have to see what happens next. Right now its cool down time for Every one maybe next weekend we can start over again but not tomorrow or this week. The man since he retired just does not get it!

 

[Fixxxer]

I would of done the same thing Eric F.
You have my support.

 

[crebralfix]

Interestingly enough, many guys in the past, including McGivern, advocated:

1) Holsters that do not cover the trigger. This is so the shooter can get a completely correct grip prior to the draw. That was their way; we do it slightly different now

2) Keep the finger on the trigger in an emergency situation. Again, a different way in a less lawsuit happy society.

Just something to think about. Perhaps they knew something about gun fighting that we have lost.

In the end, Eric F identified the intruder and did not shoot. He had his finger on the trigger because he intended to shoot if required while under what he perceived as an emergency. I cannot really fault him for that. Does it violate the current safety paradigm? Sure, but that way is not the only way.

 

[yockey]

Eric, you did well in the situation!

When facing a BG, always remember that you can NOT fire a weapon without the finger on the trigger! You done good!

 

[scott22]

Responses of this nature I would expect to see from the Brady Bunch.

No kiddin, I can't believe the people that are sticking up for the FIL. Just because you have a key to somebody's house does not mean you can drop in unannounced any time you please. He suspected trespassing (and there was) and acted accordingly.

 

[XD Fan]

Sounds to me like FCFC is having fun trying to get Eric's Goat.

 

[Titus]

Maybe but not for me as I would have been alive. I felt threatened there was an unwanted person in my house justifiable homicide.....maybe maybe not that would have to be determined by a court in that case

You have at least one kid? Give it a few years and you might find yourself in a similar situation again. Will you feel a little funny in court saying "It was her or me!"? This is one of the most obvious, stereotypical situations someone who owns and carries a gun can find themselves in. And if you're going to pull a gun on people, you should expect to be "Monday morning quarterbacked" by the legal system. It might not happen, it may work out favorably for you, but you should be on standby for it.

 

[rainbowbob]

What do you mean? I did not discharge the gun so I feel I had 100% trigger control.

Then you need more training. "Feeling" and "knowing" are two different animals. Knowing you have 100% trigger control means keeping your finger OFF the trigger until you are absolutely certain you want to put a hole in whatever is directly in front of your muzzle.

And then I found this in another one of your posts, Eric:

...my game gun is my carry gun I did my own trigger it is in at 2 pounds 2 ounces ...Any way I carry that light because I have nothing else. As far as the trigger weight and liability goes no one has ever had a problem with a light trigger if the shooting was justified.

And you really don't think that with a 2lb, 2oz trigger...

An involuntary twitch of your finger could have been the most disastrous and defining moment of your life.

Maybe but not for me as I would have been alive. I felt threatened there was an unwanted person in my house justifiable homicide.....maybe maybe not that would have to be determined by a court in that case.

That is a scary response - and you are so wrong about it not being a bad day for you. I don't care how justified you think you might have been. Killing your FIL would have most probably been the worst day of your life - and would have changed it for the worse forever. A court (and possibly your wife) might have determined that possession of a key to your house implied permission to enter. And the prosecutor would have had a field day with that 2lb, 2oz trigger.

You unwillingness to examine your actions and attitudes has convinced me you posted this incident for the sole purpose of getting the equivalent of slaps on the back from your internet buddies. Anybody that questions your behaviour is "attacking" you - and "defending" your FIL. Nonsense!

You may find that when you're always "right" - it's hard to learn anything.