Thinking of going down to a smaller gun on hotter days. Thinking of either. Mak feels a little better due to it having a fuller frame, also has a little more stoping power and is a little cheaper. The 3AT is just alot more comfortable and easier to conceal. What are your thoughts?
Better CCW? Makrov or KelTec 3aT??
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I don't own either but after owning a Kel-Tec P-32 that was a total and compleat POS, I can't recomend them to anyone. I think the P3-AT is similar enough to the P-32 to make me feel that it may suffer from the same problems.
Just judging from what others have said about the Mak, they seem to be ultra reliable and I want to get one but for some reason they are impossible to find!:banghead: Its not like I live in BFE, I live in a good sized city that had plenty of gunstores and decent gunshows every couple of months but Maks are scarce. I have seen two in person and passed on them for $150 but now I am starting to regret it. Every other mil surplus gun is easy to come by except the Mak. I take that as a sign that people buy tham and keep them rather than buy them and sell them.
Just judging from what others have said about the Mak, they seem to be ultra reliable and I want to get one but for some reason they are impossible to find!:banghead: Its not like I live in BFE, I live in a good sized city that had plenty of gunstores and decent gunshows every couple of months but Maks are scarce. I have seen two in person and passed on them for $150 but now I am starting to regret it. Every other mil surplus gun is easy to come by except the Mak. I take that as a sign that people buy tham and keep them rather than buy them and sell them.
Saber
Member
Get Both 
If your looking for something easy to conceal, then the P3-AT is going to be the easiest of the two, just slip it into a good pocket holster then slide it in your pocket and your not going to realize you have it on you after a few days of carry. Then find yourself a good deal on a Mak, and make it your fun gun or alternate carry. From what I have heard Mak's are fun to shoot and built like tanks. As always with what ever you decide to carry, run several hundred rounds through it to make sure its reliable and to learn how it shoots and handles. I personally own the P-32 and have never had a problem with it, I carry it most every day simply because of its light weight and easiness to conceal. I also own and carry other handguns, but the P-32 is my always gun and the only thing that would replace it now as an everyday carry would be the P3-AT.
Take care;
Saber
If your looking for something easy to conceal, then the P3-AT is going to be the easiest of the two, just slip it into a good pocket holster then slide it in your pocket and your not going to realize you have it on you after a few days of carry. Then find yourself a good deal on a Mak, and make it your fun gun or alternate carry. From what I have heard Mak's are fun to shoot and built like tanks. As always with what ever you decide to carry, run several hundred rounds through it to make sure its reliable and to learn how it shoots and handles. I personally own the P-32 and have never had a problem with it, I carry it most every day simply because of its light weight and easiness to conceal. I also own and carry other handguns, but the P-32 is my always gun and the only thing that would replace it now as an everyday carry would be the P3-AT.
Take care;
Saber
coldshot03/04
member
I know that my buddies over on KTOG.ORG are going to Clobber me. But, IMHO. I recommend the Makarov. My KTP32 worked fine in the beginning but, has failed way to many times to be carried for my personal protection handgun.
I have no experience with the P3AT.
I have no experience with the P3AT.
IF you spend summers dressed in shorts and T-shirts like me... get the P-3AT. I have four Kel-Tes (2 P-11s and 2 P-32s), and they have all been good performers.
IF your daily dress allows you to comfortably carry something a bit larger, then get the Makarov. I have five of them (2 Bulgarian, 2 Russian, 1 E. German) and they also have all been good guns.
I also have a soft spot for the Bersas (I have one in .32 and another in .380)...
IF your daily dress allows you to comfortably carry something a bit larger, then get the Makarov. I have five of them (2 Bulgarian, 2 Russian, 1 E. German) and they also have all been good guns.
I also have a soft spot for the Bersas (I have one in .32 and another in .380)...
PCRCCW
Member
The Makarov is so reliable, I still have problems believing it. I'd carry it as a self-defense piece any day. The round's a good one, too, though really only marginally better than .380"
I agree with this..but if you add the loss of velocity from the short barrelled KT and compare it to the +3 1/2" barrel of the Mak...the Mak would have quite a bit more energy...just a thought.
Shoot well.
I agree with this..but if you add the loss of velocity from the short barrelled KT and compare it to the +3 1/2" barrel of the Mak...the Mak would have quite a bit more energy...just a thought.
Shoot well.
Flyer,
Why is it that my post isn't valid? By your logic, anyone that has ever had a problem with a Kel-Tec is a liar and should not be listened to.
At least I am being honest. You have had PLENTY of problems with your P-32s but somehow that isn't important because they are the best guns ever made and so what if they don't work ALL the time. coldshot03/04,
I am sorry to hear about anyone that has problems with guns but now you see that I was not totally crazy. I'm not going to say I told you so because I am not gleeful that I was right. I wish I was wrong and I got the only bad P-32 ever made but I know that is not true. Kel-Tecs DO have problems.
I don't know why people get mad at me when I voice my opinion and experiences wth these guns. I am not telling anyone that they can't own a Kel-Tec but rather warning them that maybe it isn't the best choice for a CCW due to the spotty track record they have.
If we all listened to Flyer, we would all have Kel-Tecs and if they weren't reliable, we would be told that we were doing something wrong. "You didn't lube it right" or You didn't do the fluff and buff" or "You must be limp wristing it" or "You are not smart enough to own a Kel-Tec" or some other nonsense. If it dosen't work, I will give it a second and maybe a third chance but not a fouth or a fifth chance.
denfoote
Member
Choices
This one's a no brainer to anyone who knows me!!
PISTOLET MAKAROVA
Why bet the farm on an as yet untested marketplace newcomer!!
True, the reports I have read indicate that Kel-Tec has a winner, but I remember a certain Taurus PT-145 that I beta tested during the TFL days!!!
This one's a no brainer to anyone who knows me!!
PISTOLET MAKAROVA
Why bet the farm on an as yet untested marketplace newcomer!!
True, the reports I have read indicate that Kel-Tec has a winner, but I remember a certain Taurus PT-145 that I beta tested during the TFL days!!!
Don't rule out the Bersa 380 and Kahr PM-9. The Bursa is cheap and they work and are alloy. (much lighter than the mak)
I don't carry my E-German maks because they are HUGE for the wimpy caliber. Kel tec's are iffy and can crap out on you at any minute. I consider them as a last ditch gun,,, right before a rock. .
I do have a Kel Tec 380 coming but only for when the rocks and car antenna's are slim pickings! I carry bigger guns in a decent cal's and people who say a pocket gun is all they can carry are just lazy.
ITWB and a floppy button shirt can hide about any 9mm/40 compact.
Flyer, you can "have your way" with Firestar but don't even think about messing with the Brensters opinion. You ain't ready yet.
I don't carry my E-German maks because they are HUGE for the wimpy caliber. Kel tec's are iffy and can crap out on you at any minute. I consider them as a last ditch gun,,, right before a rock.
.I do have a Kel Tec 380 coming but only for when the rocks and car antenna's are slim pickings!
I carry bigger guns in a decent cal's and people who say a pocket gun is all they can carry are just lazy. ITWB and a floppy button shirt can hide about any 9mm/40 compact.
Flyer, you can "have your way" with Firestar but don't even think about messing with the Brensters opinion. You ain't ready yet.
PCRCCW
Member
What you have are two very different guns in size, mechanics, weight, age of proven design and history. One is my first choice...the other still needs OEM refining befoe its a CCW for me.
The Makarov has been the chosen sidearm of 100's of 1000's of persons in comm block countries for years. Its simple mechanically, as reliable as a brick, small enough to conceal almost anywhere, thin and very accurate.
The KT is very small and light enough to set new standards for the caliber its chambered in. Thats very cool. Maybe a best choice for deep concealment for those who want a small/light s/auto....MAYBE!........
What kills the KT for me and Im sure a couple of others on the forum is....
The design isnt proven as of yet IMO. Ill expand on that theory. Any gun I buy, even the "must take to a smith to make it reliable 1911, should run out of the box.
I know there are guns that need work from all makers, but when common knowledge dictates a "fluff and buff" to make it run, my thinking is KT should do this before they sell the little things and charge another 50$ for it.
Im capable of doing alot of my own smithing, blueing, trigger work, bla bla bla..and I dont want to have to do it to make it run properly...I want to do it to make it run the way I want. THATS THE BUMMER FOR THE KT.
The ones Ive seen have so so finishes also...a better finish, properly buffed at the factory...guaranteed to run..without muliple trips to KT at my expense...for around 300$ and Im first in line.
The cheaper price they sell for isnt justification for the hit and miss reliability in my book. Look at CZ's....for a little over what the P3AT sells for you can get a 9MM gun that will shoot perfectly for a life time. Out shooting many other more expensive guns in the process.
Just my take on things..and hey, to each his own.
Shoot well
The Makarov has been the chosen sidearm of 100's of 1000's of persons in comm block countries for years. Its simple mechanically, as reliable as a brick, small enough to conceal almost anywhere, thin and very accurate.
The KT is very small and light enough to set new standards for the caliber its chambered in. Thats very cool. Maybe a best choice for deep concealment for those who want a small/light s/auto....MAYBE!........
What kills the KT for me and Im sure a couple of others on the forum is....
The design isnt proven as of yet IMO. Ill expand on that theory. Any gun I buy, even the "must take to a smith to make it reliable 1911, should run out of the box.
I know there are guns that need work from all makers, but when common knowledge dictates a "fluff and buff" to make it run, my thinking is KT should do this before they sell the little things and charge another 50$ for it.
Im capable of doing alot of my own smithing, blueing, trigger work, bla bla bla..and I dont want to have to do it to make it run properly...I want to do it to make it run the way I want. THATS THE BUMMER FOR THE KT.
The ones Ive seen have so so finishes also...a better finish, properly buffed at the factory...guaranteed to run..without muliple trips to KT at my expense...for around 300$ and Im first in line.
The cheaper price they sell for isnt justification for the hit and miss reliability in my book. Look at CZ's....for a little over what the P3AT sells for you can get a 9MM gun that will shoot perfectly for a life time. Out shooting many other more expensive guns in the process.
Just my take on things..and hey, to each his own.
Shoot well
tiberius
Member
You really think they had a "choice". Choice wasn't a big thing with the commies.
edit -Gawd I'm a sloppy typist!
Last edited:
PCRCCW
Member
OK....good point. Whether or not they had the choice...being a "You will carry this and shoot the capitalists!!!!!!!" situation..., they were still used by LOTS of guys with LOTS of success.
Im sure at times....If they didnt use them as they were ordered..they saw how well they worked first hand. God I love our country.......
Shoot well
Im sure at times....If they didnt use them as they were ordered..they saw how well they worked first hand. God I love our country.......
Shoot well
coldshot03/04
member
Oh dont get me wrong. I still like my little KTP32. I slightly polished the feed ramp and a few other places, the gun has been running fine since. Ill put another couple of hundred rounds through it before Id trust it with "my life".
I think we might be overstating the effectiveness of the 9x18 in Soviet usage. Before the collapse of the Soviet Union, they had started to beef-up the Makarov design and designed hotter ammunition for it (too hot for the standard Makarov), and the troops that might have a reason to use a handgun more (Spec Ops) had migrated to the 9x19 in the form of the CZ75.
I carry a P-32 with the 10 round mag. The longer grip is easier to handle and control for me, and doesn't adversly affect its concealability. I live in Florida, so I'm in shorts and t-shirts most of the time, so I use a nice Don Hume pocket holster.
As for the Mak, the nice thing is that if you can't hit them with the round, you can always blind them with the muzzle flash!
As for the Mak, the nice thing is that if you can't hit them with the round, you can always blind them with the muzzle flash!
alamo
Member
firestar wrote:
To paraphrase the movie "Tommy Boy", 'I could take a dump in a box and stamp a guarantee on it if it would make you feel any better.' Haha! You can keep you "guarantees" and I'll stick with a quality product from the start!
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I think it is time for the moderator to show you the exit door. Your childish vendettas are getting tiresome.
To paraphrase the movie "Tommy Boy", 'I could take a dump in a box and stamp a guarantee on it if it would make you feel any better.' Haha! You can keep you "guarantees" and I'll stick with a quality product from the start!
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I think it is time for the moderator to show you the exit door. Your childish vendettas are getting tiresome.
makdaddy03
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Makarov is the "Clear Winner" IMHO. And if you dont like it you know who! Then
And if you dont like it you know who! Then makdaddy03
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And
makdaddy03
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So you ride a Honda? Nice Bike.
Can you say Suzuki GSX-R1000? Ill race you.
Can you say Suzuki GSX-R1000? Ill race you.
makdaddy03
member
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Heres a pic of my baby.
PCRCCW
Member
You guys are getting off track..literally I appreciate competitive bikes as much as anyone..and you both have very nice hardware. But keep the "Ill race ya...wanna run for pinks?" on the track if youre serious about it.
My profile doesnt say squat about bikes. Im an MSF instructor, ex-racer, bla bla bla. Ive been on more than my share of rides where the guy who painted the shortest line out of a corner bought lunch.
My last ride dyno'd at 162 HP w/ 118 FPT...it ran nicely.
But, Ive also pulled my head out of my butt. I was the last person a certain squid saw before he passed on, he went down on a Squid/RacerBoy gathering a couple of years ago and they had plenty of competitive spirit. That spirit paid off with a 22 year old kid who died with his in my lap.
My brother has taken many race schools...F. Spencer, Vegas, bla bla....
He rides very well...on unfamiliar roads were neck and neck..
He high sided his 2001 GSXR1000 and his bike slammed him into a retaining wall. The bike went over the wall and down a 300ft cliff.
He survived but broke/ruptured damn near everything from his neck down with full leathers/etc on at the time.
My point is and always will be the best riders dont need to say what they can do...they just do it. And they never do it on the street!
Sorry for the rant...I hear this S%&T all of the time but it struck a nerve today........
Hope you both keep the rubber side down and Ride/Shoot well
I appreciate competitive bikes as much as anyone..and you both have very nice hardware. But keep the "Ill race ya...wanna run for pinks?" on the track if youre serious about it.My profile doesnt say squat about bikes. Im an MSF instructor, ex-racer, bla bla bla. Ive been on more than my share of rides where the guy who painted the shortest line out of a corner bought lunch.
My last ride dyno'd at 162 HP w/ 118 FPT...it ran nicely.
But, Ive also pulled my head out of my butt. I was the last person a certain squid saw before he passed on, he went down on a Squid/RacerBoy gathering a couple of years ago and they had plenty of competitive spirit. That spirit paid off with a 22 year old kid who died with his in my lap.
My brother has taken many race schools...F. Spencer, Vegas, bla bla....
He rides very well...on unfamiliar roads were neck and neck..
He high sided his 2001 GSXR1000 and his bike slammed him into a retaining wall. The bike went over the wall and down a 300ft cliff.
He survived but broke/ruptured damn near everything from his neck down with full leathers/etc on at the time.
My point is and always will be the best riders dont need to say what they can do...they just do it. And they never do it on the street!
Sorry for the rant...I hear this S%&T all of the time but it struck a nerve today........
Hope you both keep the rubber side down and Ride/Shoot well
pistolwhipped
Member
Nice hat.
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