The Kirkwood MO City Council Shooting as it happened from the prosecutors report

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Jeff White

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It's not often we get detailed information on how a mass shooting happened. In this case there was an audio tape. Let's limit discussion to what measures could have been taken by the people in the council chambers. Comments about illegally carrying firearms there will be deleted. It's off topic in S&T to discuss political matters like changing the law. Talk about cover, concealment and escape is on topic.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...4AAA36AB95166D47862574A00014326B?OpenDocument
Kirkwood tape is released
By Doug Moore and Stephen Deere
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
08/09/2008

It lasted one minute and 32 seconds.

It was enough time for Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton to kill five people and wound two others in a shooting rampage at Kirkwood City Hall on Feb. 7.

The rampage started with confused commotion in the back of City Hall chambers that night, built to a series of "Hands in the air!" shouts from Thornton and climaxed with a thunderous hail of 18 bullets.

St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCulloch on Friday released the audiotape from that evening, along with a 150-page investigative report. City Council meetings are typically taped, and the Feb. 7 meeting was no exception.


McCulloch said some questions may never be answered, such as where Thornton got a .44-caliber Magnum — one of two guns he used that night. But one thing is obvious, McCulloch said.

"It's clear his target was the entire City Council," he said of Thornton.

The eight-minute tape and the investigative report, based on interviews with witnesses and police officers on the scene, offer new details of how that evening unfolded.

NOTICE OF ARRIVAL

Thornton left his family house in the Meacham Park neighborhood wearing a long black leather jacket over a black-and-white striped dress shirt, black pants and shoes. He also had his trademark wide-brimmed hat.

His brother Gerald Thornton said Cookie was calm. Nothing seemed out of the ordinary. "To God be the glory. I love you. I'll see you later," Cookie Thornton said on his way out.

Neither his brother nor his mother noticed the leather shoulder holster he was wearing.

Thornton was involved in several community and youth activities. But he had tangled for years with city officials over tickets he got for various nuisance violations for his asphalt business. He claimed city officials were racist. And he was also a regular at City Council meetings.

Just as the 7 p.m. meeting was about to begin, Ronald Whitehead, an unarmed private security guard at City Hall, saw Thornton pull his decommissioned ambulance up to the curb.

Whitehead went upstairs to the council chambers and told police Officer Tom Ballman that Thornton — known for his outbursts at meetings — had arrived.

Whitehead told police that as he walked back down the steps, Thornton passed him and said: "Good God almighty."

Whitehead did not know that Thornton had already taken his first victim, police Sgt. William Biggs. Biggs was headed to nearby Imo's Pizza to buy dinner for another police officer who had fixed the sergeant's personal computer. He wanted to repay the favor.

Thornton shot Biggs on a parking lot adjacent to City Hall, which is next to the police station, and took his gun. Biggs was able to make a distress call just before Thornton shot him.

TAKING AIM AT VICTIMS

Inside City Hall, Mayor Mike Swoboda called the meeting to order. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. Roll call was taken. Discussion began on a zoning case. Less than two minutes into the meeting, Thornton stormed in.

He wore a sandwich-board sign that hid the two guns he was now carrying.

"The unrest in Meacham Park will continue until the racist plantation mentality of the Kirkwood officials are addressed," read the sign.

Thornton began shouting: "Everybody stop what you're doing! Hands in the air! Hands in the air!"

The sign fell to the ground as Thornton headed toward Ballman, who was sitting at the front of council chambers, on the right side. He shot the officer. Thornton unlatched Ballman's holster but could not remove the gun.

As he kept shouting "Hands in the air," Thornton's next target was Public Works Director Ken Yost. The shot that killed Yost also struck Suburban Journals reporter Todd Smith in the right hand.

Thornton then went after Swoboda, shooting him twice in the head and critically injuring him (Swoboda is still recovering at home and going to rehab several days a week).

Councilwoman Connie Karr crawled to a back exit hallway, behind the council dais, but Thornton followed and shot her, claiming his fourth fatality.

Thornton turned back toward the council chambers and shot Councilman Michael H.T. Lynch, who also died.

Thornton then made eye contact with Councilman Timothy Griffin, who was hiding behind the council table with others. Griffin told police that he said, "Cookie, I've known you a long time."

Thornton turned away and set his sights on City Attorney John Hessel, who pleaded "Cookie, don't!" repeatedly.

Hessel threw chairs at Thornton and kept him at bay for several seconds before running out of the chamber.

At that point, there was a brief pause in the booming rounds from Thornton's guns. Then, police officers responding to Biggs' distress call came in. Another series of bullets rattled the room.

"Where's the bad guy? Is he down?" one officer yelled.

"He's down! He's down!" another officer responded.

In all, Thornton fired 12 shots. Police fired six.

Officers who made their way into the council chambers tried to make sense of what happened as they checked on the victims.

"Where's Biggs?" one officer asked. "I want to know where Biggs is."

Another officer broke the news: "He's shot. He's shot."

In the background, a woman screamed: "No, no, no, no! God, no!"

NO SIGNS OF SNAPPING

More than three hours after the shooting spree, police went to Thornton's house. They interviewed his family members, who said they had no clue what Thornton was planning.

Thornton blamed the city for his financial ruin and his marital problems, one brother acknowledged. But he seemed calm earlier that night. He did not drink or use drugs. He went to church every Sunday.

"Nothing was found indicating the suspect's intentions," a police report said.

Police searched the house. They found a half-dozen hand-printed posters in Thornton's bedroom that he had used while protesting. Cassette tapes of council meetings sat on a desk.

Police also found a satchel on Thornton's bed. Inside was a plaque he received for his "dedicated service" to Kirkwood from 1995 to 2001.

It was signed by Swoboda.

Todd C. Frankel and Phillip O'Connor of the Post-Dispatch contributed to this report.

[email protected] | 314-340-8125

[email protected] | 314-340-8116
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Any chance of finding the layout of the Chamber?

I'm with Bob, there is not a lot they could do. A packed hall with an armed and determined madman is going to result in him getting hits on folks.

An unarmed security guard was mentioned. I wonder if they had had allowed for an armed guard if there would have been a difference. Likely not as he would shot him for his gun as he shot Sgt Biggs.

Running might get you noticed, while laying still makes you an easy target. Probably not much in the way of solid cover.

Naturally individuals run away from threats they know they cannot handle on their own. This is to be expected.

Maybe there could be a paradigm shift in that in a situation like this, all the nearby people swarm the madman, increasing their individual risk but quite possibly lowering the overall risk.
 
Sometimes when the enemy has a projectile weapon it makes sense to close with them. He came expecting to be in a shooting gallery, not in a wrestling match.
 
As a mere pup, I was taught to run from a knife and to charge a gun.

Biker
 
Biker's advice makes sense. I think the city council members were in a bad spot. The best that they could hope for is an emergency exit door to their rear or some cover behind their podium/conference table.

If one were a spectator at a city council meeting, I'd think that sitting in the back of the room would be best. If a lunatic came in fixated on the council and walking towards the front of the room, you might be able to slip out the door the lunatic entered through. Or, you might be able to get behind the gunman as he moved forward.
 
I was taught to run from a knife and to charge a gun.
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I'd never heard that before. I can see where it might have been a good strategy in this case - IF - they could have mounted a coordinated attack. But how do you put that together in the midst of chaos without any expectation of such an occurrence?

One person running at the shooter would not likely be effective unless he was able to get to him during a reload. Everything happened so fast. The gunman had two firearms and fired 12 rounds. It sounds like the killings had already occurred before he emptied the two guns.

Hessel threw chairs at Thornton and kept him at bay for several seconds before running out of the chamber...At that point, there was a brief pause in the booming rounds from Thornton's guns. Then, police officers responding to Biggs' distress call came in. Another series of bullets rattled the room.
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Perhaps the gunman was reloading at that point, and perhaps the chair assault was enough to cause him to stop what he was doing for a moment - just long enough for the LE response to catch up and take him out. It would appear that Hessel saved his own life and maybe many others by throwing those chairs.
 
Thornton began shouting: "Everybody stop what you're doing! Hands in the air! Hands in the air!"

The sign fell to the ground as Thornton headed toward Ballman, who was sitting at the front of council chambers, on the right side. He shot the officer. Thornton unlatched Ballman's holster but could not remove the gun.
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It appears that there was an armed officed on duty in the counsil chambers at the time, but things must have happened so fast he did not even have time to stand up. Seems he was the first targe that Thornton took on.

Maybe with more force-on-force training, officer Ballman would have been able to react faster and at least get a shot or two off.

Did not happen
 
Was the armed officer in the room as security? If so, perhaps it would have been better to be facing the door or to be outside the meeting room door watching the approach.
 
I believe he was facing towards the door. Maybe not. Regardless, it was such a short time that I don't think it would have made a difference.

Thornton was a regular there. And I don't recall him ever being in serious trouble, other than he just goes to the meetings, gets worked up, and then is escorted out. Biggs in fact went to tell Thornton to keep it civil and not cause trouble that night.

So I suppose a key thing to remember is never get complacent.
 
Perhaps the gunman was reloading at that point, and perhaps the chair assault was enough to cause him to stop what he was doing for a moment - just long enough for the LE response to catch up and take him out. It would appear that Hessel saved his own life and maybe many others by throwing those chairs.
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So Hessel saved lives through the use of projectiles? Hmmm.

Also the madman shot the obviously armed first. What does that mean in terms of what to do in a situation like this?
 
I think the key is do something

There had to be other people there, and everybody has a back side. A chair would make a pretty good weapon to bash him on the back of the head.

I really don't know what I would do in such a situation, but I have this fierce Celt temper that doesn't tolerate stuff like this very well. And I've got a little bit of experience with arriving on a chaotic fire scene with no one in charge (ICS comes hard to the "good old boys") where I just look for something that could be done and just do it.

Edit to add: even if you can't carry a gun, a D-cell maglite in the hip pocket can be pretty handy for finding your way back to your car at night ;)
 
Sounds like one of those times where the first death or two can't be prevented but a third or fourth might have been through CC.
 
I thought throwing chairs at the gunman was an interesting tactic. It seemed to buy that guy enough time to escape.

Note that the police officer's security holster apperantly kept the gunman from getting the officer's gun out of the holster after he shot the officer.

Note that it would also keep a private citizen from getting the officer's gun, unless that person knew the steps to remove the gun or had the time available to figure out how it worked. Just something to keep in mind if your ever in a similiar situation and you think to use an officer's gun.

Other then that, not much more that I can say, except fight back if you can, with whatever tools are handy or escape if you can, as fast as possible, if you have a way out. Note that he did follow one person out and killed her in the hall.
 
I hate to point out the obvious, but it wasn't just council members shot and killed.
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Actually, it wasn't obvious to me. In fact, it sounds like most of those he shot were either armed - as in the case of the two policemen - or could have legally been armed - the two members of the council, and probably the mayor and the public works director.
 
As a mere pup, I was taught to run from a knife and to charge a gun.
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Sound advice inside a medium to smallish room. Depending upon the range; in the outdoors or in a large area such as a big indoor shopping mall running away at an angle from the gunman makes a lot of sense if you are unarmed. Distance is your friend and it is harder to hit a moving target.

If the city council had emplaced an exterior guard with a metal detector that would likely have helped. If Thorton had shot and killed the exterior guard first the officer inside would have had a chance to respond instead of getting caught cold.
 
Sound advice inside a medium to smallish room.
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If all of the sheeple in the room had understood that basic defensive concept, it might have helped. That training would be much more effective in our colleges and schools than training to hold up your books - which only serves to keep you from seeing when the BG turns your way.
 
There was a drawing of the basic layout of the room in one of the local papers when they were doing the refurb after the shootings, but I don't know where to find it now. I can't remember the details of other doors or halls, but other than that it was pretty basic with the main entrance at the rear and a curved table at the front of the room for the council. Everything else aside, the first officer who died outside deserves a big kudos for tripping his personal alarm before he died. That alerted the PD in the building next door and no doubt saved some lives.

As for what measures have taken place since the shootings, I'm sure there's stuff that the public will never hear about. They've said they don't want to do metal detectors. I'm guessing there's a good likelyhood that there are some armored materials in the room for shelter. I'm also hoping that some of the council now have ccw permits. By law they're the only ones in the room other than LEOs who are allowed to carry in the room. I also wouldn't be surprised if the city attorney could get an exemption to be allowed to carry, so he doesn't have to resort to throwing chairs again. Still, given the politics of some folks around this town, it wouldn't shock me if none of the members of the council have their permits. I did talk to one ccw instructor who said that after this occurred his class was full for weeks, with folks from all over the area.

A small bit of trivia. The officer who was walking outside was on his way to get pizza from a place about a block away. That's the same resturant where Micheal Devlin worked, the perv who held Shawn Hornbeck hostage for 4 years.

BTW, as a matter of respect the media has been requested to not provide the actual recording to the public. I agree with this decision.
 
It so happened that this event took place while we were in St. Louis for business and I was able to follow the local coverage closely.
I believe that the initial reports said that the killer began with a five-shot Charter Arms .44 Special, not a .44 Magnum. This is what he used to kill the officer outside in the parking lot, whose gun he then took.
I also seem to recall that this second gun was a Glock, likely a 17, which would have held at least 17 rounds, if not 18. This was sufficient for the rest of the shooting done by the killer without reloading.
One of the newspapers I had included a good diagram of the meeting room, which was fairly good sized and rectangular, with a curving desk at the head, the end away from the entrance doors, going across nearly the whole width of the room.
It's possible the Post-Dispatch or whatever paper I read might still have that in the archives.
I also recall that it wasn't long before this that the Council had proudly banned possession of firearms in the area where the Council shootings took place, reminiscent of the Virginia college campus ban so bragged about by Virginia Tech up until spring, 2007.
The contact between the killer and the Council was extensive, as shown by the victims calling him by his first name. It leads one to think that the reason the second officer killed in the chambers, if not also the first, were at a lowered level of alertness. The man was very familiar to them and apparently had not presented a high level of physical threat.
 
I also recall that it wasn't long before this that the Council had proudly banned possession of firearms in the area where the Council shootings took place
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CCW permit holders are prohibited from carrying at city council meetings by state statute.
(5) Any meeting of the governing body of a unit of local government; or any meeting of the general assembly or a committee of the general assembly, except that nothing in this subdivision shall preclude a member of the body holding a valid concealed carry endorsement from carrying a concealed firearm at a meeting of the body which he or she is a member. Possession of a firearm in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal offense so long as the firearm is not removed from the vehicle or brandished while the vehicle is on the premises;
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http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000107.HTM
 
About the only measure that would have prevent this would be enforced rules for these types of meetings and a couple of cops stationed like bookends at both sides of the doors as the public entered the room .

Rules like not allowing Body signs to be worn and since most of these buildings are designed with a foyer type entrance requiring people to remove their jacket and coats and carry them draped over an arm as the actually enter the main room .

Police no more expect to be attacked at a city meeting or a "Court Night" than a pilot expects his hijacked plane to be flown into a building .

The guy did what was completely unexpected and as long as humans have an imagination things like this can never be completely prevented .
 
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