Post-Investigation

thisismygun · Aug 30, 2008

I was thinking, in a case of self defense, after all the court proceedings, what happens to your gun? If you end up killing someone, do you get your gun back? Assuming of course your gun is 100% legal. I don't know how those things work.

Loomis · Aug 30, 2008

In iowa, your gun is taken as evidence, dissassembled and inspected. You never get it back. Doesn't matter if you are vindicated or not.

Ragnar Danneskjold · Aug 30, 2008

Depends on where you live. Some police depts will go through great lengths to get it back to you, as they should. Some will go through great lengths to keep it from you forever. It may have scratches or markings on it from evidence logging. If it's a particularly nice weapon, it may have regretfully gone missing.

There's really no standard, and without knowing where you live, we can't really even guess.

thisismygun · Aug 30, 2008

Man thats terrible. I'm in Virginia, relatively gun friendly. They don't even reimburse? What about your ability to purchase another weapon?

Geno · Aug 30, 2008

One of our THR members has a great idea regarding this problem. When you find a handgun that you really like, be sure to have at least two. That way, if one is taken as evidence, you still have one that you can carry.

elrod · Aug 30, 2008

I believe that if you kill someone with a gun, getting it back is going to be the least of your worrys. You probably won't want it, anyway (memories, and all that).

kingpin008 · Aug 30, 2008

Then again, it could very well carry with it excellent memories, of how it helped you save your life when you were facing a potentially lethal situation.

ANDROTAZ · Aug 30, 2008

Then again, it could very well carry with it excellent memories, of how it helped you save your life when you were facing a potentially lethal situation.

x2...if I had to kill someone who was endangering my life (or the lives of others) that would be the ONE gun that I'd want to carry for the rest of my life.

I just don't get it...there's so many Ayoob articles and such about how bad it's really gonna be if you DO have to kill. Jesus, I thought the phrase went "innocent until proven guilty", not the other way around. Forget the traumatic experience of shooting someone...just the frustration of knowing you're innocent but being treated like a criminal for YEARS would be enough to drive plenty of people crazy.

It's also nothing short of pathetic if one didn't get their piece back after being found innocent.

Duke Junior · Aug 30, 2008

It's also nothing short of pathetic if one didn't get their piece back after being found innocent.

Mr.Orwell predicted this in 1949.It's all coming true:

http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/

slidelock15 · Aug 30, 2008

Here's a thought

We are always told to say "I'll be happy to make a statement as soon as I can consult with my attorney". Suppose we apply that to the gun as well. The investigating officer will insist that he wants the gun reallybadly. If you 're prepared to spend the night in jail(which will likely happen anyway) just keep saying lawyer, ever time he asks for the gun. Your lawyer would then be able to negotiate how long they keep the gun. Definitely something to discuss with your attorney beforehand!

shadowalker · Aug 30, 2008

I can't imagine refusing to hand over the firearm after a shooting will result in anything pleasant short or long term. It could very well take it from a non arrest, lawful shooting, to spending more than a night in jail on extra charges.

Where I live there is a low chance of being arrested after a self defense shooting.

Having the firearm returned would be something I would discuss with the attorney right off the bat, that way he can stay on top of it and make sure it gets returned but at the scene of the shooting during the initial investigation is not the best time.

It might not be easy but as long as it is a legal shooting you should be able to get it back.

coyotehitman · Aug 30, 2008

We are always told to say "I'll be happy to make a statement as soon as I can consult with my attorney". Suppose we apply that to the gun as well. The investigating officer will insist that he wants the gun reallybadly. If you 're prepared to spend the night in jail(which will likely happen anyway) just keep saying lawyer, ever time he asks for the gun. Your lawyer would then be able to negotiate how long they keep the gun. Definitely something to discuss with your attorney beforehand!

I'm not sure this is a good idea.

Z-Michigan · Aug 30, 2008

Your lawyer would then be able to negotiate how long they keep the gun. Definitely something to discuss with your attorney beforehand!

Nice idea, but in most cases it will make your situation much worse. I wouldn't try it.

The general answer depends entirely on state law and to a lesser extent how the relevant PD operates. You may never see the gun again, you may get it back years later, or you may get it back the next day - it all depends on both the relevant law and facts.

In many states, after the recent NRA-supported changes to self-defense laws, you *should* get the gun back soon, or even not have it taken away at all, if the facts appear to show a rightful shoot. I'll be curious if anyone can comment on how often that actually happens.

ants · Aug 30, 2008

Our company has an attorney who lives down the street from me. I ask him questions like this from time to time.

He tells me that it depends upon whether you can legally own the gun or not. A smart property owner always petitions the Authority Having Jurisdiction to release personal property when an incident has been closed in favor of the property owner (the investigation finds the shooting lawful, or the jury acquits, or whatever). He thought my question was odd, because the same procedures apply to all evidence in a legal matter: Clothing, automobiles, guns, boats, valuables, or anything that is legal to own (contraband is never returned). He thought it was odd that I expected guns to be different from any other property. Property is property, as long as it is lawful to own.

At least that's the case in my state. I doubt that your state is different. The operant action here is 'property owner petitions the Authority Having Jurisdiction to release personal property'. I would bet that most people just sit at home and do nothing, or they only do it orally (phone calls and visits to the police station).
Make your demand in writing, or it never actually exists.

Marcus84 · Aug 30, 2008

Stupid question I know but why would they take it assuming it was used in self defense?

ants · Aug 30, 2008

Evidence during the investigation

This is going to surprise you, but homicide is not necessarily a crime. When a person dies at the hands of another, it is classed as homicide. If investigation finds it to be criminal homicide, charges are filed. If it is justifiable self defense, the person committing the homicide goes home. But until they investigate and determine justification, they must hold the evidence. The weapon (knive, gun, baseball bat, automobile) is evidence.

tpaw · Aug 30, 2008

I was thinking, in a case of self defense, after all the court proceedings, what happens to your gun?

In NY the serial number is checked out and the gun is held for evidence and examined for prints, ballistics, fibers, hair, blood, anyting that can be found on it. If you are found not gulity, you will be provided with the proper paper work to take to the property clerks office where you will get it back.

jaholder1971 · Aug 31, 2008

In iowa, your gun is taken as evidence, dissassembled and inspected. You never get it back. Doesn't matter if you are vindicated or not.

Can you cite the law on this or provide some examples? This sounds overly broad for even a state like Iowa.

twency · Aug 31, 2008

If the weapon has been processed for latent prints you might not appreciate the condition it's in, even if it is returned. Cyanoacrylate (CA, aka Superglue) fuming leaves some unpleasant residue that can be very difficult to remove. Acetone removes CA, but it may also eat the plastic components, wood finishes, or other quirks of your particular weapon.

And yes, weapons may be processed for prints even when taken directly from the person of the suspect.

Blackbeard · Aug 31, 2008

Why would they need the gun for the investigation if you admit you're the one who shot the guy? Do they need further evidence that you're telling the truth? Are your fingerprints going to prove or disprove self-defense?

twency · Aug 31, 2008

Why would they need the gun for the investigation if you admit you're the one who shot the guy? Do they need further evidence that you're telling the truth? Are your fingerprints going to prove or disprove self-defense?

There are various reasons (some better than others) that a weapon might be submitted for evidence processing. One good reason would be concern that you (the self-admitted shooter) might change your story later. Not all police departments and labs operate the same way or use the same procedures. However, I can tell you from first-hand knowledge (used to work in a crime lab) that there is a reasonable chance your weapon may be CA fumed if you are a possible suspect in a crime, even if you admit to being in possession of the weapon and/or it is found on your person.

Similarly, if a weapon (or other valuable) is stolen from you and later recovered, it may suffer at the hands of lab processing before you get it back. Sometimes the cure seems almost as bad as the disease, but the benefit to society from proving a crime and punishing the guilty is often deemed of greater importance than the property rights of the owner of an item of evidence.

JDoe · Aug 31, 2008

Why would they need the gun for the investigation if you admit you're the one who shot the guy? Do they need further evidence that you're telling the truth? Are your fingerprints going to prove or disprove self-defense?

I guess the quickest answer is that life is stranger than fiction and with experience the need to gather all available evidence regardless of what anyone says becomes evident.

Don Gwinn · Aug 31, 2008

We are always told to say "I'll be happy to make a statement as soon as I can consult with my attorney". Suppose we apply that to the gun as well. The investigating officer will insist that he wants the gun reallybadly. If you 're prepared to spend the night in jail(which will likely happen anyway) just keep saying lawyer, ever time he asks for the gun. Your lawyer would then be able to negotiate how long they keep the gun. Definitely something to discuss with your attorney beforehand!

I don't enjoy being shot. And frankly, if I'm ever in a shoot that's over before the police arrive (as I expect it will be) I expect to have the gun on the ground before they get there.

One gun is a cheap price to pay to wake up in the morning and take a breath! If you had to choose between living and chucking your gun into the ocean, you'd toss it, right?

There's a line in one of the Lord of the Rings books to the effect that one who cannot cast away a great treasure in a time of great need never owned it.

Treo · Aug 31, 2008

There's a line in one of the Lord of the Rings books to the effect that one who cannot cast away a great treasure in a time of great need never owned it.

I think the line was that they were bound by it

You probably won't want it, anyway (memories, and all that).

I here this a lot and I think it's a 21st century myth, I've never heard of soldiers throwing away their rifles after a battle and I've never found any historical refference that any of the old gun fighters ever got rid of a weapon after killing someone W/ it.

Maybe a suicide.

Clermont · Aug 31, 2008

The Jacob Rubenstein, aka Jack Ruby, family successfully sued the Dallas Police Department for the return of the .38 Special Colt Cobra used by Ruby to mortally wound Lee Harvey Oswald. It took years but the Colt was eventually returned. The Colt was later sold, at auction, for $200,000.00. Ruby was sentenced, following the trial, to die for the Oswald's murder. Yet, Ruby's family was able to acquire the murder weapon.

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