Ok...I am a believer.....
- Thread starter deerhunter61
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kingpin008
Member
Not trying to bust your chops, but can you provide cites for this? Every show and resource I've read has stated pretty emphatically that in general, burglars and thieves will do everything they can to avoid contact with the person they're thieving from. If they didn't, why do they try so hard to break in while you're not at home? A burglar is after quick cash, not a confrontation.
slide
Member
I understand the OP's anger. I'd feel likewise, but he really has to examine the proposed scenario. He lurks night after night expecting a some guys break into his truck.
Finally it occurs. So, mindful of his charge to kill them and end the threat, walks out there and kills two 16 year olds. Being night and he in TX, he isn't charged as he is following the law.
He really needs to put himself in that position as a role play. Will he feel good that he killed some vermin or will he feel bad at having protected a PDA by killing two guys? How will his relationships be after? Will he be viewed positively or negatively by his co workers, relatives and friends?
This isn't a simple question like a guy comes at you with a knife, you draw and fire. That would take some getting used to alone but this one isn't nearly as clean cut.
Finally it occurs. So, mindful of his charge to kill them and end the threat, walks out there and kills two 16 year olds. Being night and he in TX, he isn't charged as he is following the law.
He really needs to put himself in that position as a role play. Will he feel good that he killed some vermin or will he feel bad at having protected a PDA by killing two guys? How will his relationships be after? Will he be viewed positively or negatively by his co workers, relatives and friends?
This isn't a simple question like a guy comes at you with a knife, you draw and fire. That would take some getting used to alone but this one isn't nearly as clean cut.
Claude Clay
Member
the one who might try to kill you if caught in the act is doing so in part because of the law. i am refering to the 3 strikes-your-out which many states have implemented. strange that the very law which keeps releasing him back into the community now tells him he has nothing more to lose by killing than by getting caught a 3rd time. both are 20-to-life. think like a criminal and a nickle, or even a dime, is doable. but 20 IS life. now, he will trade yours for his. he does not see a down side to this way of thinking.
so , these home invasions ( use to be called B&E) now often result in extreme violence--be sure to thank a lawmaker today, cause the recent victims can't
so , these home invasions ( use to be called B&E) now often result in extreme violence--be sure to thank a lawmaker today, cause the recent victims can't
crebralfix
member
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- Mar 7, 2004
- Messages
- 1,356
Sanitize your vehicle before leaving it unattended...anywhere.
That means you take the front off the stereo (you are getting one of those, right?) and you keep NOTHING in the car.
That also means you have to vacuum it...keep it spotless because you never know when some bum will want those crumbs on the seat.
That means you take the front off the stereo (you are getting one of those, right?) and you keep NOTHING in the car.
That also means you have to vacuum it...keep it spotless because you never know when some bum will want those crumbs on the seat.
Phil DeGraves
Member
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- Aug 24, 2006
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- 1,531
What difference would knowing their intentions make if they broke down your door?
BruceRDucer
Member
Good Idea to get the CCL!
bdickens
Member
David Hume had something else in mind when in An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding he wrote "A man who at noon leaves his purse full of gold on the pavement at Charing-Cross, may as well expect that it will fly away like a feather, as that he will find it untouched an hour after," but the person who is concerned with keeping his possessions secured against theft might do well to keep those words in mind.
Carrying a gun really isn't the preferred method for preventing theft of your valuables. Keeping them out of sight and locked up is.
Carrying a gun really isn't the preferred method for preventing theft of your valuables. Keeping them out of sight and locked up is.
OP
OP
deerhunter61
Member
Texas is the state...thought I had included that...
I will get that fixed.
First I do not plan on sitting out and waiting to see if anyone ever comes back to do this again...in fact I agree with the Officer when he said I needed to start leaving my truck unlocked and just not leave anything in it someone would want to steal. This I can do...
But for those who have said they would not protect their property with force...I am not 100% sure exactly what I would do...if I had my gun and confronted someone breaking into or tearing up my property how they responded when confronted...and I can assure you if I had a gun I would confront them...would determine if I shot them or not.
As far as feeling bad for 16 year olds....someone please explain to me why it should make a difference at this age? Do you realize they probably would not even serve any and I mean any time in jail? If they are "old" enough to make the decision to vandalize my property they are "old" enough to suffer the consequences.
I have had multiple cars/trucks vandalized and they take and destroy what I sacrificed to purchase etc. The laws actually protect them...not me....and I have had enough!
I am not someone who is irrational as some I think alluded to. If anything I am completely the opposite.
For all of those who have said they will sit back and do nothing if someone steals or destroys your property perhaps you will post where you live so they can come by your house next time instead of mine?
Just so no one is confused...I would NOT shoot first and ask questions later. I would give the individual a chance to get face down on the ground immediately....only if he hesitated would I take the next step. If he does not value his own life and by breaking into my truck or house he is indicating he does not then why should I value it?
I am also not naive about the possible effect of taking a human life. I have thought about it over the years which up untill now prevented me from getting my CCL. But I am just fed up with this stuff. By doing nothing we create the enviroment that perpetuates this behavior. Even the Police officer said today the ONLY WAY TO STOP IT is to shoot these people so the next BG will think twice before they steal and vandalize someone elses property. I guess I agree with him.
BUT UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAID EARLIER...I WOULD NOT JUST GO OUT AND START SHOOTING SOMEONE. I would give them a chance to surrender immediately.
And as to the poster who said the BGs last night were just doing their jobs? PLEASE! You think stealing from people is a job? Care to share your address so I can try to direct these people to you so they can do their job on your property instead of mine?
Why should I have to make allowances for crooks? Thieves? Robbers?
I do understand depending on the circumstances I might end up paying legal fees as well.
Also I simply meant in the post regarding the CCL that after this incident I realize that in the society we live in I should approach it differently. Not that having a CCL last night would have changed anything...I realize it would not but I really did not realize how crazy it had gotten around where I live and that perhaps I should have protection when I am out and about.
I live in what I considered a very good neighborhood. good neighbors, nice homes etc. It is not ritzy around here but it is an upper middle class neighborhood. Like I said earlier the Assistant Police Chief lives across the street and another officer lives next door to him. The yards are kept up and the neighborhood is nice so if it can happen here it can happen anywhere.
If we had laws that were tough enough to make it these people get a real job instead and making it their job to steal from others then maybe things would be different?
Thanks for all your input.
I will get that fixed.
First I do not plan on sitting out and waiting to see if anyone ever comes back to do this again...in fact I agree with the Officer when he said I needed to start leaving my truck unlocked and just not leave anything in it someone would want to steal. This I can do...
But for those who have said they would not protect their property with force...I am not 100% sure exactly what I would do...if I had my gun and confronted someone breaking into or tearing up my property how they responded when confronted...and I can assure you if I had a gun I would confront them...would determine if I shot them or not.
As far as feeling bad for 16 year olds....someone please explain to me why it should make a difference at this age? Do you realize they probably would not even serve any and I mean any time in jail? If they are "old" enough to make the decision to vandalize my property they are "old" enough to suffer the consequences.
I have had multiple cars/trucks vandalized and they take and destroy what I sacrificed to purchase etc. The laws actually protect them...not me....and I have had enough!
I am not someone who is irrational as some I think alluded to. If anything I am completely the opposite.
For all of those who have said they will sit back and do nothing if someone steals or destroys your property perhaps you will post where you live so they can come by your house next time instead of mine?
Just so no one is confused...I would NOT shoot first and ask questions later. I would give the individual a chance to get face down on the ground immediately....only if he hesitated would I take the next step. If he does not value his own life and by breaking into my truck or house he is indicating he does not then why should I value it?
I am also not naive about the possible effect of taking a human life. I have thought about it over the years which up untill now prevented me from getting my CCL. But I am just fed up with this stuff. By doing nothing we create the enviroment that perpetuates this behavior. Even the Police officer said today the ONLY WAY TO STOP IT is to shoot these people so the next BG will think twice before they steal and vandalize someone elses property. I guess I agree with him.
BUT UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAID EARLIER...I WOULD NOT JUST GO OUT AND START SHOOTING SOMEONE. I would give them a chance to surrender immediately.
And as to the poster who said the BGs last night were just doing their jobs? PLEASE! You think stealing from people is a job? Care to share your address so I can try to direct these people to you so they can do their job on your property instead of mine?
Why should I have to make allowances for crooks? Thieves? Robbers?
I do understand depending on the circumstances I might end up paying legal fees as well.
Also I simply meant in the post regarding the CCL that after this incident I realize that in the society we live in I should approach it differently. Not that having a CCL last night would have changed anything...I realize it would not but I really did not realize how crazy it had gotten around where I live and that perhaps I should have protection when I am out and about.
I live in what I considered a very good neighborhood. good neighbors, nice homes etc. It is not ritzy around here but it is an upper middle class neighborhood. Like I said earlier the Assistant Police Chief lives across the street and another officer lives next door to him. The yards are kept up and the neighborhood is nice so if it can happen here it can happen anywhere.
If we had laws that were tough enough to make it these people get a real job instead and making it their job to steal from others then maybe things would be different?
Thanks for all your input.
macadore
Member
It’s easy for some people to say they wouldn’t shoot someone over property crime. Until you’ve been there, it’s hard to understand the sense of violation that something like this causes. People where I live get shot for this sort of stuff all the time, and I’m ok with it. That means it is less likely I will have to do it.
OP
OP
deerhunter61
Member
Just a FYI
Today the initial damage estimate is $2,600 to my truck. This does not include the cost of my treo which runs about $600.
Today the initial damage estimate is $2,600 to my truck. This does not include the cost of my treo which runs about $600.
Always try and keep a cool head.
I know how you feel. But I think part of CCW is the ability to keep a cool head when confronted with people who, well, severely test your patience and forbearance.
It is a virtue sir.
Like just now, there is this guy in my neighborhood who has a "rice rod" Honda with one of those loud "coffee can" mufflers. Every time he peels down the street he sets off car alarms. It use to just piss me off. One side of me wants to send an RPG up his tailpipe.
But another side of me just hopes the dope grows up soon.
I know how you feel. But I think part of CCW is the ability to keep a cool head when confronted with people who, well, severely test your patience and forbearance.
It is a virtue sir.
Like just now, there is this guy in my neighborhood who has a "rice rod" Honda with one of those loud "coffee can" mufflers. Every time he peels down the street he sets off car alarms. It use to just piss me off. One side of me wants to send an RPG up his tailpipe.
But another side of me just hopes the dope grows up soon.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
Assuming it's legal where one lives to use deadly force to protect property under "X" circumstances, then the question becomes a simple moral one: Is it right, under YOUR own set of morals and values, to kill or maim a thief for stealing or attempting to steal? Everyone has to answer that for themselves. I say, hell yes, absolutely, the #@$%#$% deserve to die for stealing MY crap that I've worked hard for, (espec. in the case of the OP, in light of how many times he has been victimized). Would I actually do it? Depends on all the facts and circumstances and the age of the offenders. If they're just kids, then no I wouldn't shoot them - we've all done stuff as kids that was incredibly stupid. But if they appear to be older than about 22-25 yrs, then they should know better, and it's time to protect my stuff and cleanse the gene pool (if legal). This has the added benefit of acting as a general deterrent to other thieves, as well as the thief who is now in the cemetery, who will not re-offend against me or anyone. But I grew up very very poor, so my values and morals on the subject have been affected by how very hard I've had to work for every scrap of material belongings I have. So heck yes, it's right *in my view* to kill someone for stealing my hard earned stuff. I am quite certain that had money been handed to me by my parents on a silver spoon, as it was with many many of my high school, college, graduate school, and other acquaintances, my views on the subject would be radically different. Your mileage may vary, and there's nothing wrong with those values. Regardless of values, the law in your particular locale must be followed, of course.
P.S. Although there are benefits of killing the suckers, there are of course also significant costs and downsides that must be weighed against, including: Is the scumbag in a gang which will retaliate against you for killing one of their own? The mental/psychological trauma of taking a life, which may or may not affect you. The literal physical cleanup costs of blood and guts, etc. Potential lawsuits by the victims family. Even possible criminal charges, if it's not a clear cut case within the law's parameters, or you have an anti-gun DA where you live (in a Texas border county). It all must be taken into account. But as I mentioned, the biggest factors for me would be whether or not they are "just kids" (under 20 years), as well as the extent of the value of the stuff being taken, and all the particular facts and circumstances of the incident.
P.S. Although there are benefits of killing the suckers, there are of course also significant costs and downsides that must be weighed against, including: Is the scumbag in a gang which will retaliate against you for killing one of their own? The mental/psychological trauma of taking a life, which may or may not affect you. The literal physical cleanup costs of blood and guts, etc. Potential lawsuits by the victims family. Even possible criminal charges, if it's not a clear cut case within the law's parameters, or you have an anti-gun DA where you live (in a Texas border county). It all must be taken into account. But as I mentioned, the biggest factors for me would be whether or not they are "just kids" (under 20 years), as well as the extent of the value of the stuff being taken, and all the particular facts and circumstances of the incident.
Neckshot5seven
member
- Joined
- May 26, 2008
- Messages
- 128
I don't care where you live! Someone kicks in your door and enters your home while you are there... he intends to do you harm. End him with the quickness. This is why I have guns in different parts of the house. Never be too far from a weapon. If every god fearing person-family did this then there would be a nice drop in home invasion robberys-murders and scumbags in the jail and prison systems. Protect your life-family-home with deadly force. Id rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Bloodlust
Guys, park the bloodlust.
"Kill the bastards" is not a solution we will entertain here.
Guys, park the bloodlust.
"Kill the bastards" is not a solution we will entertain here.
TylerDurden
Member
They got your Treo...
Watch you a** for ID theft.
If the state allows it, then do what is considered ok.
-TD
Watch you a** for ID theft.
If the state allows it, then do what is considered ok.
-TD
moooose102
Member
back in the day, when car stereos were being ripped off at a feverish pace. a small group of us (car guys with great stereos) and decided to protect our investment. we epoxied razor blades to the back and sides of the stereos. one of the guys (who had been a victim before) in the group was unfortunate enough to have someone break in and try. he ended up with a bloody mess, a broken up dash, and the perp decided to get even by smashing the car as he left. the perp was caught by the police (at the hospital) and charged. but this was way back in the 70's. now days, you would be sued for doing that. as for shooting a person for stealing stuff from your truck, you will likely end up in jail for that. it is only property. just insure it, and file claims. i know it sucks, but unless they are going to do great bodily harm, or intend to kill you, i dont think you will be able to shoot them and stay out of jail. now, a nice security system, that supplies 50,000 volts to the perp, or sprays them with die, a pit bull who hasn't eaten all day, or even something like a game camera to take their picture might be nice, but killing them is not the answer to this. if they break into your home, then, by all means, stop them in their tracks by what ever means are necessary.
Big Boomer
Member
I would, it may not be a cell phone next time, nor outside your house.
Marshall
Member
Leave a jewelry box in the house window with a flashing neon sign that says "Bling Here". Then let the chips fall where they may.
RangerHAAF
Member
GA has the Castle Doctrine and several occurrences of breaking and entering into automobiles and homes have ended in the perpetrators being shot and in one specific car theft case being shot dead, with no charges being filed against the person that they were victimizing. Nowadays money and the things you work for don't come as easy as they use to.
So, it's really like the law gives you as a citizen the right to shoot and kill a criminal perpetrator but it's up to you in the end to determine whether or not you have the emotional brass to drop the hammer on him.
So, it's really like the law gives you as a citizen the right to shoot and kill a criminal perpetrator but it's up to you in the end to determine whether or not you have the emotional brass to drop the hammer on him.
OP
OP
deerhunter61
Member
What to do....
I understand those who have brought up the issue of not wanting to kill someone over your property...but what are we going to do to stop it? The laws we have and those that are supposed to prosecute them are not getting it done. Crime does pay and the consequences are not severe enough to stop these people from doing it. So what are you going to do?
And for those that say you have insurance...claim it on your insurance...who do you think this effects? Not only do my rates go up but yours to and then we sit back and continue to let these BGs get away with it?
If someone could offer a REAL solution I am all for hearing it. And please do not go into the....do not leave valuables in your truck etc...This is not what this is about but it is about stopping this kind of behavior. I am not sure that putting them in prison is the answer either...that costs us a mint as well.
We need to pass TOUGH laws and I know you all will not like it but if the 3rd strike you are out is the death penalty then perhaps this would provide the motivation for these people to start living a more productive life? I know this will not get a lot of support but give me an alternative....
I understand those who have brought up the issue of not wanting to kill someone over your property...but what are we going to do to stop it? The laws we have and those that are supposed to prosecute them are not getting it done. Crime does pay and the consequences are not severe enough to stop these people from doing it. So what are you going to do?
And for those that say you have insurance...claim it on your insurance...who do you think this effects? Not only do my rates go up but yours to and then we sit back and continue to let these BGs get away with it?
If someone could offer a REAL solution I am all for hearing it. And please do not go into the....do not leave valuables in your truck etc...This is not what this is about but it is about stopping this kind of behavior. I am not sure that putting them in prison is the answer either...that costs us a mint as well.
We need to pass TOUGH laws and I know you all will not like it but if the 3rd strike you are out is the death penalty then perhaps this would provide the motivation for these people to start living a more productive life? I know this will not get a lot of support but give me an alternative....
NavyLCDR
member
You might want to be careful about leaving the truck unlocked - your insurance may not cover anything stolen, including your truck itself, if it is left unlocked - at least check with your insurance company first.
Anybody forcibly enters my home when I am there, gets shot on sight. I am not going to stop and ask them their intentions.
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