Illegal Aliens can buy shotguns/rifles??

What would stop them before?

They illegaly crossed our borders and have probably found illegal ways to make their money (even if their jobs are legal, the fact that they are illegals makes any work they do illegal).

Nothing to stop them from buying a full auto Uzi out of the trunk of a car behind some bar now as it is. Having a driver's license isn't going to effect that.


Besides, if the Dems get their way us "native born" Americans won't be able to buy guns legaly anyway.

Of course letting illegals have driver's licenses doesn't do anything but make it easier for them to fake their citizenship (and then register to vote ... as Democrats of course ... which is the real reason for this whole mess anyway)

No. Review your 4473 the next time you fill one out.

Paper stops them cold.

I still cannot comprehend the supposed logic behind giving illegals a driver's license. If a person is in this country illegally, once you have identified him, aren't you supposed to deport him back to his country of origin? Once he is back in his own country, what possible use could having a California driver's license serve? Oh, let's see, he can then walk across any border checkpoint instead of having to sneak across the border.

Sounds like the appropriate use of California's tax dollars to me.

No. Review your 4473 the next time you fill one out.

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I had a table in a gunshow today and I noticed lots of Hispanic-appearing folks who didn't speak English buying guns from sellers but only the licensed dealers were filling out 4473's. "Most" folks around here, but not all, will ask for a Drivers License to establish State residency but I've never heard of a private seller asking for a Social Security Number or proof of Naturalization.

Say! Do you think it's possible that some of those Hispanic-appearing folks who didn't speak English were NOT legal residents? Naw, discount that idea. I'm absolutely certain that folks who come to this country to "improve their lives" will scrupulously abide by the law. Don't you?

Yessir, having all those laws in place guarantees that people will comply with them.

No. Review your 4473 the next time you fill one out....El Tejon

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If he is primarily a spanish speaker he can fill out AT F 4473 (5300.9) (5-2002) (English-Spanish). We who read and write American use form dated (10-2001)

Under some circumstances an alien does not have to be a resident. Licensed hunter etc.

Proof of residence requires NON government info such as last three months of utility bills etc.

Soooo....if the person toys with his answers to 12; j, k and l : The dealer could, in ignorance, sell em the gun.

If the dealer does not read Spanish, he could screw himself.

The instructions on the back of the Spanish edition are in mixed Spanish and english. Not translated....mixed.

I have the American language and the Spanish ones. I understand they are available in a few other languages.

Bucket of worms.

And....if a counterman blows it; tis the license holder that gets burned. While the illegal alien gets the gun.

Sam

If a person is in this country illegally, once you have identified him, aren't you supposed to deport him back to his country of origin?

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Well, yeah, sure, but unfortunately, you see, we don't have a $28,000,000,000 Department of Homeland Security to bother with illegal aliens. So sad, eh?

The California Dealer's Report of Sale was modified at the same time the drivers license for wetbacks law was passed and includes a question if the purchaser is a U.S. citizen. If not, the alien has to provide documentation he or she is here legally and the serial number of that document is recorded on the DROS.

Pilgrim

Nemisis, thank you for clearly identifying the "gun show loophole" for all of us. Now, would you like to assist the Brady Bunch in closing it down? Personally i can deal with illegals buying weapons. It doesnt bother me in the least.

Just for s---s and grins, and to be the agitator I am predisposed to be, I called Boxer and Feinstein's offices and spoke to their Chiefs of Staff. Boxer's listened politely and said they would pass the info on.

Feinstein's, however, told me to call my Senator Chuck Hagel. I told him that Hagel had no influence in CA and the logical person to call is the Senator from the affected state. I even called her a champion of gun control. I told him that the problem was that an illegal alien buys a gun, drives up I-80 with his new purchase, and shoots me here in NE; and that gave me a real warm and fuzzy feeling.

Not only are they going to buy them illegally, they will then move them in "interstate commerce" to affect other states and their people. This is gonna get good.

I guess next they will use the failing of the CA system to require several forms of ID or will use the CA debacle to push for a national ID. Politicians never do anything without an end game and I believe the end game in this instance will be to demand a new ID system because of the clearcut failure shown by the CA system. They are sitting back right now rubbing their hands in eager anticipation of the first killing to take place with a firearm aquired illegally by an illegal alien using a CA DL.

You heard it here first.

Jesus jimpeel, you are either paranoid or a genius ... unfortunately I suspect the latter.

:banghead:

Helps to be able to think like a crook when doing battle with politicians and other criminals.

Sam

Its hard to think straight on these issues, I'm so angry about the situation here.

There you go again, Hkmp5sd, using logic.

On the "Up" side, a rash of home invasions stopped around here a few years back after a Mexican fella shot a couple of invaders with an AR though his locked bedroom door as they tried to break through it. The local paper carefully never mentioned whether he was wet or not.

Just to stir the pot, I'll say that if self-defense is a fundamental human right (and it is), anybody who's not a felon should be able to buy all of the weapons they want here. Citizens, tourists, Japanese businessmen, Brits, Aussies, Canadians ... anybody. And that Homeland Security should be spending a good chunk of their resources finding and deporting "mojados." The two issues are separate.

And jimpeel, thanks for the tip. Forewarned is forearmed. We'll all start drafting the letters.

The California legislature is succeeding in making life a lot easier for Mexican Nationals that enter into California illegally. Now they can obtain drivers' licenses, firearms and soon even grants and loans for college tuition at California's Community Colleges.

Now I ask some California Board members, is it the responsibility of California Civil Servants to encourage or discourage ILLEGAL immigration?
It seems to me that the elected officials in that state are making a mockery of the whole immigration process, and the legal immigrants who have to play by the rules can see that the Naturalization process is a politically motivated bad joke.

This is not the first time California has gone off the deep end, nor will it be the last. The looney, left-wing legislature in charge over there is dangerous to that state's future, and anyone can see, no matter how good the weather and the surf is out there, the state of California is going to hell in a handbasket, and fast.

Sorry I'm not saavy enough to post a link, but the headlines in Sunday's Wichita Eagle stated that Gov. Sebelius was going to go out of her way to help illegals.......so the nonsense has hit Kansas too.....

So gunsmith, what was your reasoning for believing that have a DL would allow illegal aliens to buy firearms? What part of the DL gives permission for the bearer to buy guns?

what was your reasoning for believing that have a DL would allow illegal aliens to buy firearms? What part of the DL gives permission for the bearer to buy guns?

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It doesn't give "permission", it just gives them a photo ID that makes it impossible to deny selling them a weapon.
It also makes it impossible to deny them the right to vote - which is the whole point of the legislation. With a stroke of the pen Davis and his democratic cohorts invented an entirely new block of voters - who'll support the party who gave them de-facto citizenship...

Keith

Don't think it makes it impossible to deny but does put more load on the counterman, owner or ?
Especially if buyer uses a spanish language 4473 (5-2002) and the sales person is not very literate in that language.

Sam

Not to get all touchy-feely here ...

A Government-issued license for anything constitutes official approval of that person's status as a regular member of society. Illegal aliens are fugitives from the law, first, last and always. To grant them documents can give a belligerent sense that "I'm just as good as anybody else; you can't deny me my rights."

All well and good: we never said you weren't a good person. Our laws don't address that. We've said, until now, that you broke our laws and violated our customs by your own choice with your means of getting here, and that every moment of your presence here breaks our laws and flouts the philosophy that guides our country. Nobody (here at THR) wants to deny anybody their fundamental human rights. We're talking about the particular rights that belong to citizens and to people who have shown their honorable intentions by coming here in accordance with our laws. If we give you a Government document that's used almost everywhere as identification, we're implying to you that none of our other laws and customs really matter either, and you're welcome to replace them with your own. The problem is that ours have been shown to work better than yours; otherwise, why did you take the risks involved in coming here illegally?

Illegal aliens here are other countries' citizens, subjects or nationals. It is the business of those countries to deal with their IDs, professional licenses, driving privileges, home and school loans, and other such matters, in whatever manner they may choose to do so. We'll give some folks visitor's passes if we want to, but we are under NO obligation to allow anybody else's people to come here, for any reason at all.

The only place that buying guns comes into it is that, if they're buying from a dealer, they're identifying themselves in the process. I'll say it again: I have no problem with illegals spending money they've accumulated while they've been illegally here. Weapons, food, rent (no home loans, please). We'll even pay to ship their guns home (along with their other property) at the same time as we buy their bus (or plane, unfortunately - $$$) ticket outta here.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.


BTW, this is all in good fun. If you are offended, please feel free to post derogatory pics of SE Texas rednecks. I promise I will laugh.

Sorry, rock jock. It's been posted here before. Tacky then; tacky now. Please don't take offense, unless you want to.

Edited to add: and my sister is in SE Texas. You don't want her mad at you.