Help me understand the love/hate with AKs

What's not to like? This one is very accurate. Reliable as a rock.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I like the way it looks.

I also like ARs..... Is there something wrong with me?

To fully answer you Shung, in CT, we have an AWB. Basically it says that if it has a detachable magazine, and has two of the following: A folding or telescoping stock, a pistol grip that "protrudes conspicously beneath the action of the weapon", a bayonet mount, flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accomadate a flash supressor, or a grenade launcher. Then it's illegal. However it ALSO lists several guns by name. Such as the AK-47, and the AR-15. Now, there's a few WASRs available in my state, my first rifle was actually a WASR-3 which..for some odd reason had feed issues, I think it's because it was converted to .223 rather then manufactured in...

So I traded it in, and put the money towards the VZ-58, which has an attachment put on permenantly over the threads, and it was made as a sporter without the bayonet lug, so it's legal. Also, mine has the wooden like stock and grips, so it's closer to the AK then the other image posted of one.

I think an AK with a halfway decent finish looks better than a Ruger No. 1 or an over-under shotgun, personally. I like the mechanical look, the exposed gas piston tube, and the overall aesthetic, particularly with a 20-round magazine:



They are remarkably reliable, easy to clean, fun to shoot (I shoot IPSC style carbine with mine), and the ergonomics aren't bad at all if you understand how to run one.

You can buy and convert a Saiga in CT as long as it isn't in 7.62x39. You can also get an AK74. You just have to conform to the "no two evil features" part of the AWB, and 922r.
As for AR15's, it says Colt Ar15's, so you can get an AR made by anyone else, again as long as it is "ban compliant." This basically ends up meaning no collapsible or folding stock, a muzzle brake instead of a flash hider, permanently affixed, and no bayonet lug.

Why ask why? I went to a machine gun shoot yesterday and every AK was happily going rat a tat tat while a fair portion of the ARs had owners trying to reproduce that consistent sound unsuccessfully.

Every negative perception posted above has merit but bottom line even the haters can't ignore its proletarian power as an utterly reliable weapon with arguably acceptable accuracy.

2. I handled a few AKs tonight and I don't see the love. They are clunky, cheap feeling, cheep looking, and less than great accuracy.

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It depends on what AKs you’ve handled. My Yugo M70 is as solid as a rock and exhibits excellent build quality, nothing cheap about it. The love comes from their reliability and ease of maintenance (or lack of maintenance), simple design, and the very effective round they chamber. Were I to use it for SD/HD on my property I’d be using it at less then 100 yards – well within any AK's accuracy range. To date my Yugo has never failed to fire and eats all kinds of ammo reliably. What’s not to love, indeed.

Every factory that produces AKs today is doing it for less than $100 per gun. This cost includes the cleaning kit, 4 mags, bayonet, sling, etc.

This is why I continuously point out that Arsenal, Inc is making some great tasting kool-aid with it's marketing department (effective ads) and sales techniques ( only importing 5000 of each type of AK they decide to sell - thus creating a "rarity" when all are sold out). Arsenal of Bulgaria is contnually cranking out every type of AK Arsenal has sold here, and they could easily sell them indefinitely - but for the artificial environment Arsenal, Inc has created.

That said, even the 'least expensive - worst finished" Kalashnikov is gonna go BANG just as reliably as the most overpriced and "prettiest" one.

The end of the video explains why I like

the temperature range within which these ugly weapons operate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXKXtM3hFQE
I have extra mittens to shoot mine at -50 Celsius and a tank top to shoot above 50 Celsius as per manufacturing warranties!

You can really tell these folks are 50 years behind in design. When the first Mig defected from Cuba, they found a 1500 lb. vaccume tubed radar and laughed!
Then someone suggested that the EMP of a nuclear bomb would not affect the old technology!

Besides, they're butt ugly.

Love = They work

Hate = Media created hype.

I agree some "older" guys don't like them because they were the guns that shot at them in the 60's and 70's. I was at the range this summer and saw a rifle in the booth next to me that I couldn't tell if it was an AK47 or AK74. I ask the old guy near the booth what it was and he proceeded to tell me how he didn't like those AK47s as they had been used against him in Vietnam(it was an AK74, owned by a kid who had left his booth for a minute).
Another reason they are on the "hate" list is criminals and gangs. I asked a Cook County Public Defender how often he saw them used in crimes around Chicago and he surprised me by saying "a lot! The gangs like them."
My own "love" of the rifle has been the simplicity(and price). After I picked up my first WASR, it got me hooked. It wasn't long until I picked up a parts kit. Until recently I had very little experience with centerfire rifles. Given ammo prices, I would not have been able to afford to shoot a 30-06 or 308 the way I shot my WASR all summer. I will admit there is also a little bit of enjoyment in having something that so many people hate and say "why do you need that?"

love:
-simplicity that works every time
-rugged and reliable; will outlast almost any gun
-cheap
-lightweight and comfortable (although the steel buttplate can suck)
-powerful with reasonable accuracy

hate:
-some don't like the ergos
-some don't like the safety
-most don't like its lesser accuracy and its crude iron sights
-alot don't like its non-American origin and appeal to scumbags

...but the number one reason why people hate it:
-ALL don't like the fact that it's not an AR

I think most people hate two things #1 is the low cost of such an effective rifle. It's not the most accurate but it wasn't designed to punch paper or varmints. #2 it offers a high volume of fire in a lethal intermediate caliber anyone can fire and maintain in the worst conditions. So do the math Cheap reliable gun + anybody can use it...pretty scary for some! I personally don't want to get shot at by anything larger than a 500fps BB gun.

I don't own one (yet) but I love it because it pisses of the politicians, is cheap enough that just about anyone can afford it, legendary reliability, very simple, and is accurate enough to get the job done in 99% of combat situations.

I'm a sniper at heart so I go with the AR's but the AK has a LOT of pluses to it. If I was president, I'd buy every male over 18 an AK. :-D

lkb3rd said:

You can buy and convert a Saiga in CT as long as it isn't in 7.62x39. You can also get an AK74. You just have to conform to the "no two evil features" part of the AWB, and 922r.
As for AR15's, it says Colt Ar15's, so you can get an AR made by anyone else, again as long as it is "ban compliant." This basically ends up meaning no collapsible or folding stock, a muzzle brake instead of a flash hider, permanently affixed, and no bayonet lug.

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Eh, wheres the fun of the AK if it isn't in the original caliber? As for the AK74, I'd love to, if I could find any shops with them, like I said though, I already have a few EBR's, a Stag15 (AR15 made by Stag Arms), the VZ58, and then a CETME. All Ban Compliant, the Stag and Cetme with muzzle breaks. I've considered the Saiga, just for having one and a conversion for the .308 models though, doubt I could find one at the moment though, and busy paying off a SVT-40 first. Something about Russian rifles attract me...

Thats the thing with Russian rifles I think, like the AK, most seem rugged, yet effective, surprisingly well made, yet simple....

1. Why are they so likely to be banned (the "hate" part)?

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A) Like other people have already noted it's associated with communist revolutionaries and terrorists all over the world. It's also associated (though less consistently) with high profile crimes like the North Hollywood bank robbery.

B) The entertainment media helps fuel this association to an extent.

C) They're not made here in the USA. It's easier to scrape up some political hysteria about foreigners shipping their deadly assault weapons here to the US of A than it is to try to shut down the AR-15, since you're killing off fewer manufacturing jobs going after the AK.

D) They have a reputation for being easy to operate and easy to keep operational -- while the validity of this compared to other similar weapons is debatable, I think these supposed characteristics of the weapon resonate with the gun-banners who don't really have a clue what they're talking about and whose knowledge of guns is limited to bumper-sticker length factoids.

2. I handled a few AKs tonight and I don't see the love. They are clunky, cheap feeling, cheep looking, and less than great accuracy.

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There is a certain functional aesthetic about them that some people like.

To be fair though, for what they are -- a combat long gun -- their accuracy is entirely acceptable, particularly if shooting better ammo than stuff like Wolf which has some extreme spreads of velocity from round to round.

I have a WASR, took it out and zero'd it. It went bang. Each and every time. The trigger is awful and the group size is laughable.

That being said, I think it is the best battle rifle of the second half of the 20th century. You can give it to untrained, gun ignorant troops, and it will function. Even Private Jessica could have gotten some shots off. (when asked why she did not shoot, Private Jessica said "my gun jammed". She had no idea how to clear a jam. )

The irrational anti gun media has made the AK the poster boy for gun evil. They picked something and demonized it. Could have been canned beer, apples, or anything else.

For me, I'll take a M14 out to the FLOT, but I would issue AK's to the rest.

I don't hate the AK, nor do I think it is an evil rifle. That said, I don't own one, choosing instead the AR. I like the AK's reliability, price point, and even the looks of the gun. What I don't like about the AK is it's inherent lack of accuracy, the machine gun style feel, and the effective range of the 7.62x39 cartridge.

The AR allows me an affordable solution for plinking, varmint hunting and personal defense. The 5.56 is a great cartridge when combined in the AR platform.

If I was caught in a chaotic wooded battlefield, I take the AK, but that is the only scenario I find it truly suited for. I still would like to have one though

AR/AK compare

Ahh...the old AR v. AK argument. Frankly, I love (and own) both. If you ever get the chance to go on YouTube then type in "AR AK" or any variation of.....and a host of videos come up about the topic and comparing the two. My favorite is the one of the guy firing the AK while his buddy litterally sifts dirt into the action as he is firing!!!! Awesome!!

--The AR is much more accurate, and the tolerances are much higher in it's construction but therein lies the problem...frequent failures esp when dirty (It loves to stay quite lubed). Also (for me anyway) the round leaves a bit to be desired as far as power and punch. It more than makes up for it in weight (the AR bullets being about 1/2 the weight as AK), accuracy, "commonality", etc.

--The AK is "looser" in it's tolerances, owing to it's "innaccuracy", but it's due to these low tolerances that the gun ALWAYS fires even after being submerged, muddy, frozen, dirty, etc. etc. 7.62 is a great round, and the AK (from all the reports I've seen) was really designed to just huck a bunch of lead down range at a high rate of fire, which it does quite well!!!

That's the gist of it.....please feel free to correct or add!!!

That's the gist of it.....please feel free to correct or add!!!

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Sounds about right, though both sides of the debate exaggerate the differences between the two weapons wildly on the internet (i.e. AKs jam when abused and can actually hit the broad side of a barn; ARs aren't that hard to keep running, but aren't half-MOA guns off the rack; etc.).

It has been my experience that most people who bash the AK have limited experience with them.

They are less accurate than an AR, but they are not inaccurate, unless you consider a Winchester 94 inaccurate. Ergonomics are not bad if you understand how to run one.

One pet peeve re: terminology---the AK's reliability is due to loose clearances, not loose tolerances. Tolerance is how much a part deviates from the ideal engineering drawing spec; clearance is the slack between parts.

Out-of-tolerance parts can make a gun too tight as easily as they can make it too lose.

I'll add to this....

I love the AK for many reasons:

-It's sexy. Some think it is ugly though.
-It's rugged and durable. It will last forever, and parts won't need replacing because they break. They'll need replacing because you lose them during cleaning. But there aren't many small parts anyways (no cotter pins and such).
-You can bounce it down a cliff, hike down and pick it up, and it will function just fine.
-It's very simple in design, with fewer parts than other rifles, and the 'clearances' allow for much grime and muck without fouling up the action.
-You can dig it out of frozen mud and it will simply shrug it off and fire.
-It's accurate at all "practical" combat distances.
-Cheap to mass-produce.
-Requires little training to use.
-Easy to clean. I can get my AK from filthy to clean and lubed in 10 minutes. My AR and SKS take me 30-45 minutes each.
-There's something about steel and wood that plastic and aluminum can't match.
-I can trust my life to an AK, even if it was dragged through the dirt across Zimbabwe.
-It is the weapon that has brought many people their freedom, and allows small groups of individuals to take on oppressive governments.

The cartidge itself: the 7.62x39mm will shoot through walls, it will shoot through cars, and it will put a man down very quickly. It is effective at all 'practical' combat distances. You can take a deer with it. The taper in the case makes case extraction easy. It's also economical to produce, cheap to shoot.

The AK used to be an obsolete design, but folding/collapsible stocks and accessory rails have made it as capable as an AR-15/G36K/whatever-modern-design. It is viable as a 21st century rifle. It will be a force to be reckoned with for decades to come.

I like how much "bang for the buck" one can get with an AK. It's a good utility rifle, reliable, packs a good punch, and customizable to the users needs.

Personally, I think the term "assault rifle" is negative. I never use that term myself.


That said,

I like the AK. It keeps me safe.




An AK a day keeps the zombies at bay.


My WASR-10:

My brother once summed it up as follows. "An AR is a scalpel, the AK is a sledge hammer."

The AK is a better survival rifle than an AR, no doubts there. If I bought an AR, it would come AFTER I already had an AK. Why? Because I want at least one rifle that'll keep working if I don't have access to the proper cleaning supplies.

The AR is a good gun for those who have time and supplies to maintain it. It's not a good gun for those who may be separated from those supplies.

A good walk through the AK's history (and the Uncle Sam's role in spreading the AK):

http://www.amazon.com/AK-47-Weapon-...=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227494937&sr=1-6

An enjoyble, short read. All the more enjoyable for fans.

I never thought I'd like the AK, either. I did warm up to it's ease of use and functionality, though. It's a breeze to clean, accurate enough, packs a wicked wallop and has a unique aesthetic.

Enjoy.

For a Romanian AK with 2 mags, bayonet, and collapsible stock, the guy wants $650. Am I getting ripped off for that price?

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That's the same price our local dealer is moving them for, too. It's a lot higher than what we are used to, for sure.