School me on AK/SAIGA/WASR lingo

[lvcat2004]

Alright, it seems that there is some specific nomenclature to refer to AK/Kalashinikov style assault weapons, and I don't know what's what.

What exactly is a Saiga?? Just a Russian manufactur, does this denote a specific type of Kalashinikov designed rifle. I know that Saiga makes AK-looking shotguns, so just a manufacturer? What about WASR-10 and such??

I have a Romanian AK that I'm gonna keep stock, but wanted to buy another one to modify ( I mean putting rails, adjustable stocks, lights/sight, etc.). Given below options, which one would you recommend and WHY? Thanks.
1. Romanian AK-RL1413N 7.62x39 with us folding stock for $349.95
2. Russian Saiga 7.62x89 with US synthetic pistol grip and stock.

On picture, they both look like an "AK" to me.

Are they both considered an "AK-47" and all aftermarket products of "AK" would fit??

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

"Saiga" is a trade name for sporting firearms based on the AK design, made by Izhmash OJSC in Izhevsk, Udmurt Republic, Russia. Saiga are not military AK rifles, and do not accept standard military AK magazines, but can be modified to do so. They are, however, good, reasonably accurate, and reliable rifles. They also make some other sporting arms. The same factory (Izhevsk Arsenal) manufactures Russian military AK47's as well.

WASR-10's are Romanian sporting Kalashikov-style rifles. They are somewhat roughly made, and are recognized as inferior quality compared to other AK variants and are prone to have canted sights and accuracy issues. Some are also have bad "trigger slap." That said, there are diamonds in the rough. Like the Saigas, they are originally designed not to take military magazines, however, once imported they are modified by the importers to accept standard AK magazines before sale (the modification is a bit more simple on these).

Between the two, the Saiga is a much better weapon.

BTW, neither are "assault weapons." They are semi-automatic rifles, functionally no different than a Ruger mini-30 or Remington 750 (except the AK is lower power caliber).

 

[nalioth]

"Saiga" is a trade name for sporting firearms based on the AK design, made by Izhmash OJSC in Izhevsk, Udmurt Republic, Russia. Saiga are not military AK rifles, and do not accept standard military AK magazines, but can be modified to do so. They are, however, good, reasonably accurate, and reliable rifles. They also make some other sporting arms. The same factory (Izhevsk Arsenal) manufactures Russian military AK47's as well.

Very nicely put, Mojo. To bring us into the 21st century, Izhevsk Arsenal now manufactures the AK-74M and the AK-100 series of Kalashnikov in various calibers.

The 7.62x39 and .223 Saiga rifles are almost mechanically identical to the AK-103 and AK-101 rifles (as far as US law allows, any way).

The WASRs on the other hand are made from parts not fit for military service. You may have a WASR-10 with a date on the trunnion of 20 years ago that was just assembled by the Cugir factory within the last 12 months. Their quality control at Cugir (at least for the export WASRs) is hit and miss, also.

The Saiga is by far the best bargain in Kalashnikov designed firearms. The WASR can be a good purchase if you can inspect it at purchase time and get lucky that the parts you can't see went though the factory on a good day.

 

[Redlg155]

Ivcat,

To further clarify things a bit about the Romanian models, the SAR varients come ready to accept standard double stack magazines. The WSAR come to the states as single stack, but are modified by Century Arms to accept the double stack magazines. When doing the conversion, the trigger is also replaced by a G2 trigger, which usually eliminates trigger slap.

The easist way to tell the difference between the SAR and WSAR- other than the markings, is to look for the "dimples" on each side of the magazine well on the SAR. These are absent on the WSAR.

Although these models are the cheapest of all the AK varients, the WSAR or SAR will handle anything you care to put it through. If you are looking for a inexpensive, no frills and reliable AK type rifle, the Romanians are hard to beat.

 

[lvcat2004]

Great info, thank you ALL.

 

[lvcat2004]

So, practically speaking...

This has gone through legal modification to an "AK-47", and I can assume that virtually all aftermarket products such as furniture, rails, mags, and such that are designed for an AK-47 will work on this "modified Saiga"??

 

[jackdanson]

This has gone through legal modification to an "AK-47", and I can assume that virtually all aftermarket products such as furniture, rails, mags, and such that are designed for an AK-47 will work on this "modified Saiga"??

Errr Not so much so, modifying the front end of a saiga is a whole other job. Although stocks/magazines/etc should all still fit the same, the gas tube and handguard are set up differently. I have a saiga in .308, and I also have a wasr, the saiga hand guard and gas tube are different than the wasr/ak ones. I think converting it is fairly easy though.. check out the saiga-12 forums, they can help you there too. The saiga also shoots SUBSTANTIALLY better than the wasr. Even if it is going to cost a little more to get all the parts you want I would still definetly go with the saiga.

As a side note, I tried "pimping" my ak with a folding stock, ultimak, rails, etc... and it really wasn't worth while... I had $800+ of stuff on a $350 gun, and it still shot like a $350 gun. I would buy the modified saiga, put a Kobra red dot on it, and call it a day. Just my 2 cents.

 

[jackdanson]

Also I've noticed that the modified Saigas use U.S. made magazines. If you go with that make sure that even if you use surplus mags you still have enough US parts to be 922r compliant. If you have any questions about that head to the saiga forum or just ask here.

 

[jbauch357]

I just bought a saiga and am working on the steps it take to make it 922r compliant while using 30rd magazines. Do some searching around on http://forum.saiga-12.com/ especially in the legal section to see what 922r really means.

Out of the box the Saiga is a fantastic deal as I've seen them for $249 new online (FFL transfer and shipping can take the suitness out of that deal), and they go for $329-369 local retail depending on options equipped.

With some modifications of the trigger group (moving forward and replacing with standard AK-47 parts), receiver (slight mods to make it accept standard AK-47 mags) and gas chamber (minor change to accept standard AK-47 hand guards) will become a full on AK-47 and accept all standard parts.

Once I get this setup the way I like it with red-dot and 922r compliance, I may consider going through the "conversion" process to make it a perfect AK-47 clone - but for now it's just a lot of fun to shoot!

Here's a pic of mine brand new: