Sniper Rifle or Deer Rifle?

A rifle is a rifle regardless of what they say it should be used for.

For instance, no one markets "soda-can rifles".

Get the notion out of your head that there are deer rifles and sniper rifles. All are simply rifles and should be categorized based on use specified by the owner.

That being said, those are good choices. People are also going to steer you toward Savage, Stevens, CZ, Remington, Weatherby, Sako, Winchester, and Ruger.

Out of your choices I'd choose the Tikka T3 (with the heavy barrel). Great accurate gun for the money. The question is are YOU capable of shooting tight groups at 500 yards?

And .223 is a bit light for deer.........

It's my opinion that a true "sniper" is defined by a set of skills, not by a certain type of weapon. As another poster said, 223 is not the best choice for deer... It's not the worst, but you could do a lot better.

you all say the .223 isn't enough for a deer, i see where this comes from however i have a friend who's a life-long hunter. all he uses is a .223 and i said the same thing to him, he said it has NEVER failed to drop the deer

-kirk

For years, my pet deer rifle provided sub-MOA groups at my 100-yard range with great reliability. I finally got off my duff and built a 500-yard range at my house. Same rifle, same sub-MOA groups at 500.

Folks can holler "tactical" and "sniper" all they want. I figure my hunting rifle shoots close enough to Good, and it's a heck of a lot prettier.

"Sniper Rifle" means it is used by a sniper. Otherwise it is a term thrown around by mall-ninja wannabes.

you all say the .223 isn't enough for a deer,

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Someone said it wasn't the best, which is probably true.

My deer rifle can be a sniper rifle if the need would ever arise.

I snipe the deer I take! 1 shot 1 kill.

I would not use .223 on deer. My round of choice is .308.

Don't worry about it being the 2 guns being the same cartridge, because if you want to shoot small groups at 500 yards you are going to need better ammo than wolf. it will be too expensive to run through your 556.

You can't get hung up on "terms."


As stated above, a "Sniper Rifle" (in my opinion) will be one of the following-- depending on your purposes:

A.) A precision rifle used by a sniper, or
B.) A precision rifle that was used by a sniper (from a collector's point of view)


Now, I know plenty of people who have "precision" rifles that they use as hunting rifles-- I am one of them.

Likewise, I know plenty of people whose "hunting" rifles are worthy of being considered "precision" rifles.


Thus, the term starts to become meaningless.


It should be worth noting that...

In Vietnam, our first "sniper" rifles WERE hunting rifles (read Marine Sharpshooter.) Hathcock goes into detail in one chapter about trying to procure both Remington 700s and Winchester Model 70's for the effort to build a sniper unit. He stated that they cleaned out gunshops and pawnshops as fast as possible when they started out.

And let's not forget that the Model 21 (I think that's the number) IS based upon the Remington 700 action and so are MANY benchrest target rifles. The 700, of course, IS and has been consider first and foremost a "hunting" rifle.


Now, you can get your "hunting" rifle and get work done on it to be more accurate. You can then drop it in a McMillan stock, float or bed the barrel, blueprint the action, customize the trigger, have a match bull barrel put on it, and where are you?

You have an 18 pound rifle that IS built off of a "hunting" rifle. It probably isn't all that fun to hunt with anymore, but you have what you have.



-- John

Snipers are just hunting a different game. The .308 is going to be a better round at 500 yards.
-Bill

Right off the bat, you've got a problem with the combo of extreme range and marginal caliber choice for that range. You're spitting into the wind trying to get good groups the easy way with .223 at 500 yards. UNLESS you use long bullets and a 1 in 7" twist (and even then it's not ideal). So you need to bump your caliber up to 6BR, .243 or better, OR go with an AR15 with a 1 in 7" bbl, OR go full custom for a 7 twist rifle. Trying to make sub-80 gr (poor BC) .224 bullets buck the wind at 500 is a tough row to hoe. Ask Art what caliber his deer rifle was when it still held 1 MOA at 500 yards.

When they want to start banning bolt-actions, they'll call them ALL "sniper rifles".

My Remington SPS Varmit in .308 with an HS stock on it is my hunting/target rifle, but in a real snipers hands it's a " Sniper Rifle". If SHTF were to happen it would become a hunting/sniper rifle. Snipers hunt, just different prey.

I belive a "Sniper Rifle" should also hold MOA for it's effective range, my belief, not pure fact.

so.. you want a "rifle with a scope that shoot accurate?

remington sps tactical in .223!

but...if you want more accuracy at 500 yards... get the .308 version

This is my "target" rifle. I have also used it in a deer stand for hunting (to heavy to hump far comfortably). So I might call it a hunting rifle also. Remington calls it a PSS. But that is just their name, I use it for target shooting. I have never tracked or shot a human with it, so it probably can't be called a sniper rifle. I am sure it will hold it's own against most tactical rifles out there in it's price range.

.223 has been used effectively on deer within 2-300 yards, but a 500 yard bg caliber it aint. I'm on a ruger kick right now and like the V/T. The Howa/weatherby vanguard is also a lot of gun for the money, but you'll probably want to drop $100 on a timney trigger. I couldn't get the creep out of mine and still have the safety work.

My 11 year old daughter has killed a jillion deer with a 223. It's called bullet selection, and shot placement. And if you want to shoot a 223 at 500, your best bet is Savage, since they sell a 223 with a 1-7 twist (of course, most of their rifles come in shooter twists). Mine does very well at 500.

you all say the .223 isn't enough for a deer, i see where this comes from however i have a friend who's a life-long hunter. all he uses is a .223 and i said the same thing to him, he said it has NEVER failed to drop the deer

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Have you been with him on every deer hunt to know he has never wounded any? Shooting deer with a .223 can be done under the right conditions(I have done it using crop damage permits). Shot placement is everything as is knowing when not to take a shot. At 500 yards it would be plain irresponsible to use a .223 on a deer. Although it would likely work most times, I'd venture to say a .243 would be less than ideal at that range.

I'd say get at least a 22-250 or 243, but you should really look into a .270 or .308, depending on if you prefer short action or long action.

I agree. The .223 isn't much of a hunting OR sniping round for anything bigger than a coyote.

And in calling it a 'sniper' rifle, you are feeding the antis' scare terminology. It's a varmint rifle. You could have a smith build you a version of any of the rifles that snipers have used over the years, but that doesn't make you a sniper.

I would strongly recommend that you do what I am doing, a return to shooting fundamentals. If you can't make 1" ragged holes @ 100 yards with a .22 with open sights, you are wasting money on anything than a standard hunting rifle with an economy scope.

As for the model, me and my dad both start with a Remington 700 and decide if there's any reason at all to use something else. We don't usually think of one.

A .223 Remington with 60 grain fare is a DEER rifle

A 60 grain Nosler Partition was designed for deer hunting. MOST .223 Remington ammunition is NOT deer-oriented. A 75 grain Swift Scirocco II bullet is deer-oriented, but not 1-in-12" twist oriented! Complex world we live in, but KNOW your rifle intimately: 1-in-14" twist barrels are great up to 50 grain bullet maximum! 1-in-12" are great up to 60 grain maximum delivery. A 1-in-9" twister is good to 65 grain bullets, while a 1-in-8" twist is good to 77 grain fare. The quicker the twist, the larger the grain weight required for practical usage. 40 grain pocket squirrel bullets were not designed for FAST Twisters! Commonsense will dictate what to load! cliffy