ATF raid in CT

they are truly doing this just "because they can." These people got a kick out of messing up someones life and possibly getting innocent people killed when this could have been solved by a simply knock on the door..

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Is not the same as:

I agree we probably don't know all the facts but what we do know doesn't look good for the Feds.

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I concur with the latter, and cringe at the hyperbole of the former.

Words mean things, especially when spoken or written in public places. We are NOT going to let this forum become a locker room for irrational venting.

Seriously.

The "cowardly" Sheriff is SUPPOSED to be the chief law officer in his county. The feds are SUPPOSED to clear and coordinate any actions with him. He is SUPPOSED to be the chief control over law enforcement in the county.

Shame that so many of our law enforcement and judicial agencies just can't be bothered with rules and regulations.

Pops

Sounds to me like they were looking for an unindentified third party who used a long gun in a crime. It's not like they are going to tell the searchees who and what they're looking for. - me

What are you basing this statement on? - you


"The family was told by ATF officers that the agency received a tip six weeks ago that a con*victed felon was living at the home and had ac*cess to guns"

But they didn't arrest anyone.

"ATF officers confiscated 14 rifles from the gun case and took his permits, he said. After breaking t he safe, the ATF offi*cers left the Beretta with a magazine cartridge still in the safe in Boynton’s dresser."

They took the long guns, but not the hand gun.

So, they were looking for someone they didn't find and they were interested in the long guns but not the hand gun.

Seems fairly clear based on what little info is in the posted article.

John

"The "cowardly" Sheriff is SUPPOSED to be the chief law officer in his county. The feds are SUPPOSED to clear and coordinate any actions with him. He is SUPPOSED to be the chief control over law enforcement in the county.

Shame that so many of our law enforcement and judicial agencies just can't be bothered with rules and regulations."

The Sheriff may well per state statute be the chief state peace officer in the county. Or maybe not. Lets assume that is the case for arguments sake to include authority over anyone deriving their authority from the state. However, that does not make the Sheriff the "chief law enforcement officer" to include federal officers.

And on the heels of that the feds didn't have to clear and coordinate anything with the Sheriff. If anything, the Sheriff's Office (or PD if in a municipality) is often advised as a courtesy, usually via a brief call to dispatch. That way they know not to dispatch units in response to calls that frequently occur in such circumstances.

Unless of course the Sheriff's Office is a invited participant:

The article makes mention of approximately 15 agents and local officers. I'd wager a cup of coffee most were local officers. Their chain of command, of course, having knowledge of their participation.

I should know better than to relate what was taught in my early briefings on required field conduct. Things do change, I guess.

Pops

Just by the way, this kind of raid is not too different from what a lot of Iraqis have had to tolerate from American troops. It's no wonder they get hostile.

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For the most part we (troops) are far more decent about it than that. Maybe not if we are talking about an identified insurgent house, but that isn't the same as a possible felon living in a house with guns.

NG VI, who is the second quote in your sig line attributed to?

Obviously it's from some seriously confused person. John

I'm still confused as to why the pistol was left behind by the ATF guys.

"in this case all you have is the words of a news reporter"

So the feds can do a no-knock raid on the word of an informant but we should reserve our judgement till we have more info than a local reporter, most of whom have actual credibility ? That's a good one.

Give me a break.

First, we do not know if it was actually a no-knock raid or simply a dynamic raid. It sounds excessive, but things are often not as they seem at first and it's generally a wise policy to wait for the fog to settle before passing judgement.

More to the point, we surely can infer that a warrant was issued for the raid. That means that some judge somewhere agreed that the raid, if not the tactics used, was legally defensible. I doubt that the reporter's article was subject to the same level of scrutiny as was the request for a warrant.

http://jec.unm.edu/training/search_warrants/sw_requi.htm

The real question is why the F Troop would participate in a 'felon with a gun' raid. There's simply GOT to be more to the story than the reporter knew.

It is for this reason why no felon is welcome in my home, family members (especially) included. I don't want their crap splattered on me.

"the feds can do a no-knock raid on the word of an informant but we should reserve our judgement till we have more info than a local reporter"

Hey, if you need the exercise you get from jumping to conclusions, have at it.

John

jimmyraythomason said:

I won't be surprised if this isn't the start of many such reports.

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The "start"? Hardly.

There are hundreds of "raids" like this every year, by multiple branches of law enforcement:

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

jaholder1971 said:

It is for this reason why no felon is welcome in my home, family members (especially) included. I don't want their crap splattered on me.

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Problem is that you don't HAVE TO HAVE a felon in your house ... just somebody somewhere with a phone that feels like screwing with somebody.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

mgkdrgn, I am aware (and have been for a long time) that this type of raid goes on again and again. I was referring to the REPORTING of same. In his book "Lost Rights, The Destruction of American Liberty", St.Martin's Griffin 1995,James Bovard catalogs hundreds of such events by various federal agencys that were NEVER reported by the MSM.

If you read the first post carefully, I don't believe that it says anything about the kid being an actual convicted felon.
Just that a phone "tip" said there was a felon in a trailer that had guns in it.

If I read correctly later on, the kid was only present with a friend when he was 17, and the friend was the one who passed the bad check, I'd take another look, but I'm late for work as it is, I'll recheck later tonight when I get home.

Heck with it, so I'll be a little late into work... there are two different stories in the article there....

"Paul Boynton was arrested 34 years ago at the age of 17 with a friend who had forged a check"

There's that line saying he was with the friend who had forged the check, so at most he'd be an accessory.... he probably wouldn't have been turned into a felon, but there's probably more to that story..

and then there's this line...

"Paul Boynton said he is not a gun enthusiast and didn’t make the connection between his 34-year-old conviction and his father’s collection."

So he admits that it was a conviction....so it's hard to say exactly what is going on here.

Just more evidence of our wonderful journalistic people doing a bang-up job.

Waco and Ruby Ridge were referenced earlier in the string. I can remember watching the footage on the Waco raid. I was living in Austin at the time.

One thing that struck me was that if I was asleep in my bed early in the morning like that, and a black clad unknown person came dive rolling through my bedroom window odds are one of us is getting shot.

Think about it: I'm groggy, my gun is at hand, and here's an unknown person with a gun in my HOUSE! If I even saw the letters on his clothing it would probably would not register that he was LEO before it was too late to stop myself from pulling the trigger. With that in mind I'm surprised that more of these no knocks don't end with both police and civilian blood shed.

More on string here, you read several times a year that both local and federal LEO guys make an honest mistake, and bust into the wrong house. Because they either got the wrong address, or rolled up on the wrong address in the dark. I've also read several accounts where they've killed innocents during these scenarios. One in which an 84 year old 'suspect' and grandmother was handcuffed on her floor died of a heart attack. Problem was that they were to busy searching her house to notice until it was to late. Not saying that's what happened here, but it is a possibility.

Either way, I think the guidelines for 'No knock' and 'dynamic' entries should be much more strict. Not saying these tools should be removed from the box, but that drawer should probably have 2 locks on it.

As to this specific incident, I'll reserve judgment until there is a more complete report. I agree the story has holes in it. Problem is that in today's news environment it may never be heard of again.