Denied buying shotgun

If only they sold teethpaste, for those of us with more than one.

What kanook said...go back, an when someone else is behind the counter you'll probably walk out with what you want. Let us know.

I haven't tried to purchase anything in Wal Mart sporting goods recently, so I will show my ignorance and ask; are shells cheaper there? If so, I understand the logic of trying to buy there. If not, why put up with the hassle?

I'm sure it varries from Wally to Wally. I've bought three guns from them, two recently, and never had any more problem than I have anywhere else. No matter where I buy guns at least two people look over the paperwork.

A cute "Wally" story. When I bought my 336 Marlin, I gave the girl behind the counter a copy of my C&R as my second form of ID. She looked at it, and said "I know what this is, and I know it's OK, but my manager is too dumb to get it. Do you have a hunting license, fishing license...something he's used to seeing?"

Jorg said:

Maybe one day, a group of scientists might conduct a study to determine if there is ever a negative correlation between low prices and expert, attentive customer service. Until then, we will never know why these things happen.

Click to expand...

That study has already been done. It was conducted by Circuit City.

Go to another Walmart, they are on every corner.

The fundamental question I have is, do you HAVE to have a driver's license to buy a gun? What if, hypothetically, someone who does not have a DL wants to purchase a gun?

Anyway, I have taken a few months worth of utility bills with me as proof of residence. I assume this is what the DL is supposed to prove?

Like it or not they aren't going to sell you the gun if they think they have to wait. So wait or buy somewhere else.

KelVarnson said:

The fundamental question I have is, do you HAVE to have a driver's license to buy a gun? What if, hypothetically, someone who does not have a DL wants to purchase a gun?

Anyway, I have taken a few months worth of utility bills with me as proof of residence. I assume this is what the DL is supposed to prove?

Click to expand...

Everything pertaining to Federal requirements for identification is on page 134 of the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide:

18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1)(C):
IDENTIFICATION OF TRANSFEREE
27 CFR 178.124: FIREARMS
TRANSACTION RECORD
Licensees may accept a combination
of valid government-issued
documents to satisfy the identification
document requirements of the
Brady Act. The required valid government-
issued photo identification
document bearing the name,
photograph, and date of birth of
the transferee may be supplemented
by another valid, government-
issued document showing
the transferee's residence address.
A member of the Armed Forces on
active duty is a resident of the
State in which his or her permanent
duty station is located, and
may satisfy the identification
document requirement by presenting
his or her military identification
card along with official orders
showing that his or her permanent
duty station is within the State
where the licensed premises are
located.
ATF Rul. 2001-5
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco
and Firearms (ATF) has received
numerous inquiries from Federal firearms
licensees (FFLs) regarding the
acceptance of identification documents
that do not show the purchaser's
current residence address.
FFLs have asked whether they may
accept other documents, such as tax
bills or vehicle registration documents,
to establish the current residence
address of the purchaser.
It has been ATF's longstanding
position that licensees may accept a
combination of documents to establish
the identity of a firearm purchaser.
ATF Rul. 79-7, ATFQB 79-1,
26, interpreted a licensee's obligation
to obtain satisfactory identification
from a purchaser in the manner customarily
used in commercial transactions,
pursuant to the existing
regulations under the Gun Control Act
of 1968 (GCA). The ruling held that
satisfactory identification of a firearms
purchaser must include the purchaser's
name, age or date of birth,
place of residence, and signature.
The ruling also held that while a particular
document may not be sufficient
to meet the statutory requirement for
identifying the purchaser, any combination
of documents that together
disclosed the required information
would be acceptable.
ATF Rul. 79-7 has been superseded
by an amendment to the GCA.
The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention
Act (Brady Act), which took effect
in 1994, mandated the use of photo
identification documents for transfers
subject to the Act. Under the permanent
provisions of the Brady Act,
which went into effect on November
30, 1998, a licensed importer, manufacturer,
or dealer is generally required
to initiate a background check
through the National Instant Criminal
Background Check System (NICS)
prior to transferring a firearm to an
unlicensed individual.
The Brady Act requires a licensee
to identify the nonlicensed transferee
by examining a valid governmentissued
identification document that
contains the photograph of the holder.
See 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1)(C). This
requirement applies to all over-thecounter
transfers, even where the
transferee holds a permit that qualifies
as an exception to the requirement
for a NICS check at the time of
transfer. 27 CFR 178.124(c)(3)(i).
The Brady Act incorporates the definition
of an "identification document"
provided by 18 U.S.C. 1028(d)(2),
which is set forth in relevant part as
follows:
[A] document made or issued by
or under the authority of the
United States Government, a
State, political subdivision of a
State, a foreign government, political
subdivision of a foreign
136
government, an international
governmental or an international
quasi-governmental organization
which, when completed with information
concerning a particular
individual, is of a type intended
or commonly accepted for the
purpose of identification of individuals.
ATF regulations further require that
the identification document must contain
the name, residence address,
date of birth, and photograph of the
holder. 27 CFR 178.11.
ATF has received questions from
licensees regarding purchasers who
present a State-issued driver's license
or other identification document that
shows either an out-of-date residence
address or a mailing address (such as
a post office box) in lieu of a residence
address. ATF has advised that
these identification documents, standing
alone, would not satisfy the requirements
of the regulations
implementing the Brady Act.
It is ATF's position that a combination
of documents may be used to
satisfy the Brady Act's requirement for
an identification document. The prospective
transferee must present at
least one valid document that meets
the statutory definition of an identification
document; i.e., it must bear the
transferee's name and photograph, it
must have been issued by a governmental
entity, and it must be of a type
intended or commonly accepted for
identification purposes. ATF recognizes,
however, that some valid government-
issued identification
documents do not include the bearer's
current residence address. Such an
identification document may be supplemented
with another valid government-
issued document that contains
the necessary information.
Thus, for example, a licensee may
accept a valid driver's license that
accurately reflects the purchaser's
name, date of birth, and photograph,
along with a vehicle registration issued
by the State indicating the transferee's
current address. Licensees
should note that if the law of the State
that issued the driver's license provides
that the driver's license is invalid
due to any reason (i.e., the license is
expired or is no longer valid due to an
unreported change of address), then
the driver's license may not be used
for identification purposes under the
Brady Act. If a licensee has reasonable
cause to question the validity of
an identification document, he or she
should not proceed with the transfer
until those questions can be resolved.
The licensee must record on the
Form 4473 the type of identification
document(s) presented by the transferee,
including any document number.
Examples of documents that
may be accepted to supplement information
on a driver's license or
other identification document include
a vehicle registration, a recreation
identification card, a fishing or hunting
license, a voter identification card, or
a tax bill. However, the document in
question must be valid and must have
been issued by a government agency.
ATF has also received questions
from licensees as to how to comply
with the identification document requirement
in the case of purchasers
who are in the military. Some active
duty military personnel may not have
driver's licenses from the State in
which they are stationed. The only
identification document carried by
some active duty military personnel is
a military identification card that bears
the holder's name, date of birth, and
photograph, but does not reflect the
holder's residence address.
Section 921(b) of the GCA provides
that a member of the Armed Forces
on active duty is a resident of the
State in which his permanent duty
station is located. The purchaser's
official orders showing that his or her
permanent duty station is within the
State where the licensed premises
are located suffice to establish the
purchaser's residence for GCA purposes.
In combination with a military
identification card, such orders will
satisfy the Brady Act's requirement for
an identification document, even
though the purchaser may actually
reside in a home that is not located on
the military base.
Licensees should note that for purposes
of the GCA, military personnel
may in some cases have two States
of residence. For example, a member
of the Armed Forces whose permanent
duty station is Fort Benning,
Georgia, may actually reside in a
home in Alabama. For GCA purposes,
that individual is a resident of
Georgia when he or she is in Georgia
and a resident of Alabama when he or
she is in Alabama. If such an individual
wishes to purchase a firearm in
Alabama, he or she must of course
comply with the identification document
requirement in the same way as
any other Alabama resident.
Held: the Brady Act and the implementing
ATF regulations require
licensed importers, manufacturers,
and dealers to examine a valid government-
issued identification document
that bears the name, residence
address, date of birth, and photograph
of the holder prior to making an
over-the-counter transfer to any unlicensed
transferee. Licensees may
accept a combination of valid, government-
issued documents to satisfy
the identification document requirements
of the Brady Act. A government-
issued photo identification
document bearing the name, photograph,
and date of birth of the transferee
may be supplemented by
another valid, government-issued
document showing the transferee's
current residence address.
Held further, a purchaser who is a
member of the Armed Forces on active
duty is a resident of the State in
which his or her permanent duty station
is located, and may satisfy the
identification document requirement
by presenting his or her military identification
card along with official orders
showing that his or her permanent
duty station is located within the State
where the licensed premises are located.
ATF Ruling 79-7, ATFQB 79-1, 26, is
hereby superseded.
Date signed: December 31, 2001
Editor’s Note:
“Identification document” currently
is defined in 18 U.S.C.
1028(d)(3).

I bought some white box Winchester 45 rounds from wally world not to long ago. After 15 min's of waiting around i found a clerk that went and found the sporting goods guy. I told the guy i wanted to buy that 100 round box of Winchester 45 acp they had under the counter so he goes to that side of the counter and grabs a box. He then put it in a bag and ran my debit card, all this time keeping the ammo away from me.

After my card cleared he then gave me the bag.I looked in the bag and found a Box of .40 S&W I told the guy he gave me the wrong stuff I said i asked for the .45 Acp rounds not the .40 He followed that up by telling me" ALL SALES ARE FINAL!" there was nothing he could do. i haven't even left the counter yet ,i was in his sight at all times he knew this was his fault. So i tell the guy to go get a manager, letting him know that they will give me my money back or exchange the box for the 45 that i had asked for. The Manager shows up and say the exact same thing. All ammo sales are final. It got to the point that the manager was looking really nervous at me saying this over and over. I then told him i wanted to talk to his boss and that i wasn't going to leave till i did. He calls up someone and after talking to him/her for 2 min's or less he then tells the clerk to exchange the box for the 45 and well for me to pay the difference of course.

I spent 35 min's buying a box of ammo from these guy's. I was the only one at the counter for that duration too. Well the only customer that is.

though they aren't the best trained staff the ones I deal with here have a general interest in sporting goods/outdoors. The target/range ammo is usually around 10% cheaper than the sporting goods stores here and well more than that compared to a gun shop. If you are looking for HD ammo then you are paying through the nose in these times anyways but WW usually doesn't have that type of ammo. I've gotten used to the routine of waitin for ~15-25min for service regarding ammo at WW but once they are there the person is sure to show you the ammo and some even read aloud the specs of the ammo they are about to ring up. They normally tell you that there are no refunds/exchanges before you get charged.

Hey, fellas. I'm a sporting goods associate at the Wal-Mart in Titusville, FL. Don't judge us all by a few idiots with no personal firearms experience. As a long time gun owner myself I take pride in knowing what I'm speaking of in general and making the buying experience as quick and painless as possible for firearm/ammo purchasers. Unfortunately even if I'm quick with getting the paperwork/BG check done I still have to wait on managers to arrive to get the firearm or packaging from the backroom and approve/cosign the 4473. That's usually where the wait gets long... occasionally 30 to 45 minutes for one to arrive, depending on how much they have on their plate. If they're listening to some 89 year old lady complaining how the tomatoes aren't fresh enough, not much they can do. It comes with the territory.

What are you doing buying from 'China Mart' anyway?

I don't have anything to do with Wally-World for several reasons, and ignorance is one of them.

Last time I went to buy ammo the guy behind the counter double checked to make sure I wanted .357 Sig and not .357 mag. I told him I appreciated it and asked how often customers weren't sure which one they needed. He told me that it was an almost every day thing. We have a few good clerks around here.