Illegal shotgun?

That short totaling the stock?

That is rather short. Illegal? Maybe.

Guns like shotguns need to total a minimum length from shoulder stock to muzzle end. Your area's gun laws will probably very clearly state to you what length is legal.

Usually in my area anything with less than a 18 inch barrel becomes a problem. My gun has a 18.5 inch plus a stock to allow for the agent who might whip out a tape measure and try for that less than 18 inch barrel.

My spouse has a youth stock, half the size of a adult stock plus a 22" barrel. Her gun is about two inches longer than mine. I can put a 18 inch slug barrel onto it. But it will make it REALLY short, but legal.

Now a pistol grip?

Whew....

There is a federal limit on just the barrel, and it's 18 inches, from closed breechface to muzzle end. There's also an overall length requirement of 26 inches. What you describe certainly sounds illegal. Can it be made legal by registering it as a SBS or AOW? Others can answer that better.

Be careful what you do. It's illegal at this point.

Check into it carefully: Technically you should make the Federal application and pay the tax before building or acquiring the short barreled shotgun, even an inheritance. But before starting the Federal process you darn well better check state and local laws first. You can generally look them up on the internet. Rather than take our advice (you don't even know us!) you should look up state law first. Then go to the atf.gov web site for more info. The info is there, you just gotta take the time to find out for yourself.

depending on make, can you buy a full length barrel for it? if so, you may still be able to use it, and just not install the short barrel.

I suspect that without lots of permits, posessing/owning a gun like that is a big risk.

If you dont' have a burning desire to own such a device, I'd suggest destroying it completly.

Scoupe is right on. I've never heard of anything less than 18" approved other than for LE's.

dissassemble the shotgun, take barrels and dispose of them. How you get rid of them is left to your imagination. My uncle who is not the sharpest knife in the drawer got caught with a very short barreled shotgun and spent time for it. Did I mention he spent time in a federal pen because he not only ignored everyone on the job site who told him he was breaking the law? Plus the co workers were tired of him shooting the shotgun endangering their lives and livelyhood(carpenters building houses). One of them called the law on him after almost getting shot. He got a lot of time to think how stupid he was because, drum roll please, the crack cocaine in his pocket did not help when he went to federal court. Cutting torch, sawsall, crush and shovel it. Sadly, I do not know my uncle, he is 60 and has spent 30+ years in the pen.

What if you just disabled the weapon to where it would not function (remove the firing pin / pour lead in to the barrel where it would not chamber a round) would that not make it a non-functioning firearm ?

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but what exactly makes a gun like his any different than a mossberg 500 JIC? I know the mossberg has an 18 1/2 inch barrel, but is also pistol grip.

As for the OP, i would think one of those gun buyback programs would be a good solution. they (claim) no questions asked. Others would know better i assume.

What if you just disabled the weapon to where it would not function (remove the firing pin / pour lead in to the barrel where it would not chamber a round) would that not make it a non-functioning firearm ?

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No. The reciever itself has to be destroyed in a ATF approved manner. If you just plug the barrel, or remove the firing pin, or whatever, that doesn't help you at all legally.

If the barrel is under 18", and the overall length is under whatever the minimum OAL for a shotun is, GET RID OF THE GUN. It's a felony just to possess, much less if you used it in self defense.

The law you appear to be violating is the National Firearms Act of 1934. You may have inherited a Short Barreled Shotgun (shotgun with a breech-face-to-muzzle barrel length of less than 18").

Check the gun to be empty, close the action, insert a dowel or cleaning rod down the barrel and mark the rod at the muzzle. Measure the rod carefully. If it is ANY FRACTION of an inch less than 18" you have a problem. PLEASE don't come back here and tell us all!

Remove the barrel and dispose of it IMMEDIATELY. Get a new, full-length barrel and you should be fine.

The only way for that gun to be legal with a short barrel would be if it had been registered with BATFE as a SBS BEFORE it was cut down -- and you would have to have it transferred to you on an ATF "Form 5" as a lawful heir. (Otherwise both you and the original owner have committed Federal felonies.)

If you want to own it as a short barrelled shotgun, you could then file a "Form 1" to make an NFA-regulated firearm and then AFTER YOU GET THE APPROVAL, you could install a short barrel.

The penalties for doing this incorrectly are absurdly severe. Please don't screw this up.

-Sam

The reciever itself has to be destroyed in a ATF approved manner.

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I respectfully disagree. Yes the reciever is what is registered. But if it hasn't been registered, with the proper barrel, and no proof of the illegal barrel, they have no proof it was ever a cut down SBS. If this shotgun has been registered, there will be evidence on the reciever (engraved manufacturer and address). If that's the case, keep looking for the tax stamp.

If his shotgun has not been registered a SBS, AND the barrel is exchangable, remove the barrel and install a legal barrel. It has not been a SBS (reg.'ed by law) so it could be returned to standard, by installing a new barrel and destroying the short barrel.

If you want to register it, do as stated in the previous paragraph. But instead of destroying the barrel, sell it to a friend ($1 will work, just have paper work to verify), to lock in his safe that you have no access to it. (This won't work if your friend has the same model shotgun. A barrel with no reciever is not a firearm, thus not illegal.) File the paper work for the SBS, when it comes back, buy the barrel back from your friend.

If it has been registered, and you can't find the tax stamp. Well it might be worth a try to contact the ATF, but I would just destroy it. And this is when you would have to destroy the reciever. The ATF has had a way of "losing" the paperwork.

Wyman

Judging by the rest of what you inherited, I'm going to guess that your gun is legal. Either you've guessed wrong at the length or you guessed right and the paperwork is in place. It's a well-rounded collection and looks like someone knowledgable put it together.

If it's the single-shot shotgun to the right in your last picture then it looks like you've got an 18" barrel on that. It only looks shorter because the single shot has no action. Comparing the barrel to the one on the Ruger 10/22 it appears to be clearly longer.

Take a measurement, I'm guessing you're legit.

Check the gun to be empty, close the action, insert a dowel or cleaning rod down the barrel and mark the rod at the muzzle. Measure the rod carefully. If it is ANY FRACTION of an inch less than 18" you have a problem. PLEASE don't come back here and tell us all!

Remove the barrel and dispose of it IMMEDIATELY. Get a new, full-length barrel and you should be fine.

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What he said. Do you know what kind of shotgun it is. We could probably find you a new barrel if you want one.

I bet you are asking about the single shot shotgun in the pic of the guns that you previously inherited. It looks legal to me. Measure it and make sure but I bet you it is 18.5"

There's no problem owning the receiver. It's having the short barrel at the same time that will get you in trouble. (Even if they are in separate parts of the house.) Ditch the barrel and save the receiver for a new barrel. (if it's worth finding one.) Or save the receiver for parts, etc. All depends on the make as to whether or not it is worth the hassle.

Are you sure it's breechface to muzzle? I thought it was end of chamber to muzzle for compliance. That's how they jacked Randy Weaver, or so I am told.

Are you sure it's breechface to muzzle? I thought it was end of chamber to muzzle for compliance. That's how they jacked Randy Weaver, or so I am told.

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To the breech/bolt face.

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/DLES/cibmanuals/files/TIME/HTML/barrellength.htm

-Sam

Trebor said:

No. The reciever itself has to be destroyed in a ATF approved manner.

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No sir.

The receiver is legal. There is no need to destroy it.

It's the (potentially illegally) short barrel that needs to be taken out of the equation. If this is an "illegally short" shotgun, the OP can destroy the old barrel (there are various ways) and buy a new legal length barrel for his receiver and live happily ever after.


Did I miss pictures here? I don't see any in this thread.

Pics are in another thread - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=454407

I think the shotgun in question in on the right of this pic:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=99425&d=1244170998

If so, it looks OK but a measurement should be taken to make sure.

Yeah, looking at the pic now, I'm going to guess it's legal. But measuring for yourself is a must, just to make sure.

Yes it is from the breechface to the muzzle. Must be 18", and a little extra never hurt. If it doesn't measure up, I'd chop the whole thing. You could find a brand new (used) gun, just like it, for less (and easier) than you could find the barrel. I'm all for rebuilding guns, but I'm practical at the same time.

And on the other guns, I sure do feel for a few of those guns. The Ithaca probably won't be bad (minus some rust possibly), just strip the tape and clean the glue. But the 1903A3 and the trapdoor, I really feel bad for those guns. So bad I might be willing to take them off your hands. Of course at no cost to you.

Wyman

if i ever inherit a shotgun with a barrel under 18 inches, and there isn't an accompanying tax stamp, i sure as hell won't be posting about it on the internet.

i would either dispose of the entire thing, or i would remove the barrel and dispose of it in a way that would be sure to never be found.

i suppose i did not realize a sawed off shotgun was THAT big of a deal like the ATF was waiting to jump you at the grocery store buying a loaf of bread...

It was a sawed-off shotgun that got us the Miller case.