Is the A2 Ar-15 obsolete?

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F. In stead of the military teaching 'Dilbert' some self control They change the trigger group to 3 shot bursts instead of fully automatic...

Self control is a major part of the curriculum since the start of GWOT. The only time a troop is taught to switch that lever all the way back is conducting an ambush. I want to be clear: These aren't just orders, but actual teaching. There's a great deal of individual responsibility placed in each troop, and they know that aimed fire is what kills in most situations. Particularly in CQB, which is a lot of what we've done in recent years in the Iraq theater, single shot is king.

G. Operators didn't like being limited to 3 round bursts when trying to suppress an ambush, special forces troops killed, Military reconsiders the 3 shot burst idea

I've trained with, supported, and sent teams to support a variety of ODA's. The training they come back with is the same as big army. Single, aimed, shots on individual weapons.

Throat Erosion is something I've never heard of, but I'll check with some armorers next time I have a chance. It seems you've spent quite a bit of time in uniform, and for that I'm thankful, but your information doesn't seem recent.
 
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WOW! Lots of guys reading too many magazines!

Which one are you getting your information from?

The primary change to the 'A-2' was for the 3 shot burst so barrel overheating wasn't a problem like it was on the A-1.

From the USMC Firepower Division, Quantico Virginia M16A1E1 Test Results and Final Report dated 21 May 1980 as published in The Black Rifle by R Blake Stevens and Edward C Ezell, Collector Grade Publications 1987 pp348 under Advantages:

Increased ammunition conservation and more effective use of ammunition with [3-round] burst control device.

There is no mention of barrels overheating being a problem with the M16A1.

Looking through all of my references on the M16 I can find no official report of barrel overheating being a problem. I have used this system for a living as both a US Army Infantryman and a police officer for 35 years and I have quite a library on it. The original barrel was prone to bending but not because of heat but because Soldiers and Marines treat the rough, use them as field expedient pry bars and otherwise misuse them.....

Most of the A-2 Aperture leaves were either a large, open hole that was intended for NIGHT SIGHTS & CQB...
And the smaller hole was intended for actually AIMING the weapon beyond 50 meters.

Wrong again. From TM9-1005-319-10 Operator's Manual For Rifle, 5.56mm, M16A2 W/E, Rifle, 5.56mm, M16A3, Rifle 5.56mm M16A4, Carbine 5.56, M4 W/E, Carbine, 5.56mm M4A1 published by the Department of the Army October 1998 pp 0011-00-1

ADJUSTABLE REAR SIGHT - TWO APERTURES FOR RANGE

SHORT RANGE OR AT NIGHT-This larger aperture is used for 0-200 meters range. As shown the sight is set for 0-200 meters. This larger aperture is only used when the rear sight is all the way down. In other words the 300-meter mark is aligned with the mark on the left side of the receiver. Useful for moving targets.

NORMAL RANGE- The aperture is unmarked and used for most firing situations. It is used in conjunction with the elevation knob for 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, and 800-meter targets.

In 'Operational' situations, We used to drill one out for night/CQB operations, but for the most part the National Match version of rear sight was MUCH MORE ACCURATE than the A-2 version was.

What operational situations were those? What unit commander authorized the replacement of standard sights with NM sights on MTOE weapons?

The A-2 also saw the advent of the 'bump' so left handed shooters didn't wind up with hot brass in their collars!

There was a little piece of plastic and metal called a left hand firing adapter that was developed and produced to fix this problem on the M6A1.

I saw how the 'Internet Experts' foamed at the mouth, so maybe I shouldn't mention the change in the number of detents in the front sight or the switch from taper pins to roll pins holding the front sight/gas block on...?

No, why don't you tell us about it? Enquiring minds want to know....Taper pins are still the standard on military rifles. No such change was ever made.

If I say anything about the firing pin detent pin change

That's odd, Neither TM9-1005-249-23&P (M16A1) nor TM9-1005-319-23&P (M16A2, A3, A4, M4, M4A1) lists anything called a firing pin detent pin. Could it be you are referring to a firing pin retaining pin? Surely someone with so much experience with the weapon wouldn't make a mistake like that? :uhoh: The firing pin retaining pin hasn't been changed since 1967 when it was changed from a machined pin to the less expensive cotter pin design currently in use.
 
Well, red dots suppsedly have faster target aquisition, so that could be why they use them at matches, because they want speed. I only have experience with irons, and hunting scopes.

wait untill you put a reddot in the AR, it's wonderful, it don't have to be a expensive one, my Tasco reddot works Great untill i went with a detachable handle
 
Later came the M-4 which was a step backwards in a lot of ways...
No fixed 'Iron' sights,
Barrel too short to accommodate/optimize the heavier/longer ammo being used correctly,
No long range capability at all,
Mediocre intermediate range accuracy with ANY ammo,
Problems cycling the vastly different ammo changes available in the military (48 to 90 grain bullets),
The list goes on...

THAT STATEMENT IS WRONG

No fixed 'Iron' sights,
This is actually a PLUS, you can use a BUIS and a Scope

Barrel too short to accommodate/optimize the heavier/longer ammo being used correctly,
wow.... didn't the make the M4 with "Ramps" just for the hevier/longer ammo?

No long range capability at all,
Ohh really?...define long range....because the m4 is not a 1000 yards match rifle but will drop enemies at 500 yards "using the non-fixed sight (scope)"

Mediocre intermediate range accuracy with ANY ammo,
same answer as the above...plus, a 1/7 barrel is not for 55gr bullets even thogh it can shoot it very well

Problems cycling the vastly different ammo changes available in the military (48 to 90 grain bullets),
no, not really, the m4 use a 1/7 twist which is for 62gr and up, same goes for the m16 with 1/12 twist shooting 90gr bullets, the bullet is too heavy for the rate of twist but does wonders with the 45gr bullets, that doesn't mean the M4 have problems cycling all kind of ammo, most of the M4 and AR in general problems cycling ammo is 1. the rifle is dirty or the mag have some kind of problem.
 
treat the rough, use them as field expedient pry bars and otherwise misuse them.....

That was the mistake made when they took off the three prong flash suppressor - that thing was the best way to break the wire around cases of C-rats ever devised and the army decided to take it away because they thought people were dumb enough to let the muzzle of their rifle get bogged up with brush and stuff caught by the suppressor. Silly army thinking, again. Made use of the barrel as a prybar to bust that wire almost the only way left to do it quickly without being sore afterwards. Then guess what they do - make the durned thing heavier to hump so the barrels won't bend so easy. Damned foolishness, IMO. :)

I mean, people gotta' eat. Duhh...
 
Yes. Flat tops or A1s here.

Well, both actually, two of my flattops wear A1 carry handles.

That''s because its not a CQB aperture. The larger one is intended for shooting in low light or with an NBC mask on.
It works well enough for plates, clays, fruit, and cans up close.

I'm a lot faster with it than I am the small aperture.
 
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obsolete?

Guess I am too much of a traditionalist.
I like 20" barrels and iron sights.

If you have a loaded 30 round magazine in the weapon and can't get on target with those 30 rounds, you should not be shooting, peroid.
 
Attention, Citizens:

Your AR-15A2 rifles are now obsolete. You may turn them in to me for disposal. There will be no charge for this service, if they are turned in prior to the end of this month.

Your cooperation is appreciated.
 
Barrels did burst on M16 and M16A1 rifles,as with the M4 carbines, it always occurred during period were the rifle was used on full auto and was being used more as a light machinegun than an infantry rifle.
Then as was the case with the M4 carbine burst issue, the direct cause was never positively identified as a design flaw or incorrect metal composition.

This was not, however, the reason the three shot burst was incorporated.

Until very recently Taper pins have been THE ONLY accepted method for attaching the front sight tower to the barrel, this is specified in the technical data package for the construction of the rifle.
No changes can be made to that specification without altering the complete technical data package for the basic rifle and that would, in essence, open a Pandora's Box.

Here of late, the Designated Marksman Rifle can feature a taper pin secured or a screw secured gas block.
However, these rifles are not part and parcel of the original T.D.P., they are semi-custom special use combat weapons and are not issued enmasse to the regular line soldiers.
 
I. 'Heat Hardened' mono-crystalline barrels, along with many other ideas are cooked up to allow full auto fire without overheating...
But aren't through testing yet,
Although Germany and Austria have had them on SAW's for years...

Do you have a source for this? If so, I'd be very interested in reading it. I worked for a company that had a single-crystal casting operation, and I know how much it was costing them. I can't see how it could be practical to add single-crystal parts, especially one so large, to something as inexpensive as a firearm.
 
IMHO, there's absolutely nothing obsolete about iron sights and the A2 config. irons are damn good.

Just because you can make the rifle better by pumping another $500+ into the rifle for an AimPoint or Eotech (with obligatory BUIS) doesn't mean the rifle is obsolete without it.....

The way I see it... learning the AR was something to be done with iron sights.... after gaining proficiency with the irons, you can move on to optics..... I guess I'm just old fashioned.

Box all those obsolete A2 uppers up and send them to me....

I'll put them to good use. ;)
 
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the carry handle was obsolete the day they took away the top cocking reciprocating charging handle.
 
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