John Birch Society Questions

We are advocationg putting people on lists here????Certainly. We are on theirs. Know thine enemy.

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OK and just so Im clear, the original statement referred to shooting enemies...you share that view I suppose?

In other words, I and others who do not think like you are on a list to be be shot.

That would depend. Will you be coming after me? No? Then it isn't likely I'll be shooting at you specifically. In a general sense though, yes, those who "think differently" may get shot at if they insist on forcing their differing views down my throat. Rather the same as if I tried to force mine on "you", if you see the point...

Wouldn't the world be a lovely place if we could just round up certain people and shoot them? Too bad we can never all seem to agree on just who those people should be.

No it wouldn't be. I guess you misunderstood him saying that about people who would come for his guns.

Maybe if someone were to post a poll...?

Gordon said:
I'm sure there are wacko JB fringe members as in all other organization a few who pervert a good thing. funny everybody seems to "know" about that minority.

If they truly are the minority, then I have never MET the majority. I guess that means the JBS needs to choose more carefully who it wants to represent its ideas in public forums.

Who exactly and where exactly is a representitive of the JBS presenting JBS views on a public forum? O yeah the New American, please show me one example of any racist, homophobic or other bigoted quote from this official publication. I'll be waiting a long time I'm sure, but not for the sound bytes of unsubstainal opinon.:banghead:

I did a quick Google search on John Birch Society Membership and found that:

JBS does not release membership numbers.

Estimates seem to range from 5,000 to 60,000 based on calculations and statements of members and former members.

John

Gordon said:
Who exactly and where exactly is a representitive of the JBS presenting JBS views on a public forum? O yeah the New American, please show me one example of any racist, homophobic or other bigoted quote from this official publication. I'll be waiting a long time I'm sure, but not for the sound bytes of unsubstainal opinon


I never mentioned racism or homophobia. I said the John Birchers I MET (not read, not saw on the internet but MET) in real life at the meeting I attended and manning tables at gun shows were spouting conspiracy theory crap like nonsense about the Illuminati, Trilateralists and Bilderbergers, not to mention the supposed "detention camps" being built, Soviet vehicles seen on US rail cars for use by Russian troops to disarm us, etc...

And what documentation do you have to prove those subjects are"nonsense". Here is one source of Russian recently declassified documents that prove , yes they did infiltrate US Gov to the highest levels, and yes they had a lot of "fellow travelers" who proved and are now proving "useful idiots". "The Sword and the Shield - The Mitrohhin Archive" Christoher Andrew and Vasili Mitrohhin - Basic Books (not in ANY way associated with JBS) But just keep believing in the anecdotal slander as research takes(ugh) too much time.Or just drop me a line on the innocence of the Builderburgers based on the minutes of their last meeting...

RikWriter, WildAlaska, and the rest. Give it up. You know what they say about arguing on the Internet being like competing in the Special Olympics...

Just put your tinfoil hats on and shut up.

I agree with them about getting the U.S. out of the U.N.
We owe the UN nothing. We are a soverign nation and don't need them helping to form our domestic policies. Period.

It's bad enough when you read on the entrance sign to the Great Smoky Mountains......"The Great Smoky Mountains National Park,
An International Biosphere Reserve".
The Biosphere Reserve refers to the U.N. "Man and Biosphere"
doctrine in which the U.N. aims to get control of national parks and other pieces of real estate world-wide.

Don't believe it?
1. Drive to the park entrance and read the sign
2. Surf into U.N. website and read about the "Man and Biosphere" doctrine.

Oh and by the way, the U.N. has a doctrine about "limiting small arms"world-wide. Thought you might like to know.

Please don't even get me started on the pure junk science of "Global Warming", championed by the U.N.

Gordon said:
And what documentation do you have to prove those subjects are"nonsense". Here is one source of Russian recently declassified documents that prove , yes they did infiltrate US Gov to the highest levels, and yes they had a lot of "fellow travelers" who proved and are now proving "useful idiots". "The Sword and the Shield - The Mitrohhin Archive" Christoher Andrew and Vasili Mitrohhin - Basic Books (not in ANY way associated with JBS) But just keep believing in the anecdotal slander as research takes(ugh) too much time.Or just drop me a line on the innocence of the Builderburgers based on the minutes of their last meeting


What evidence do *I* have? Listen fella, if I walk up to you and claim that invisible unicorns live in your garage, it's not up to YOU to prove me wrong, it's up to ME to prove I'm right.
And you're bringing up red herrings AGAIN...I never mentioned Communist infiltration, so don't put words in my mouth.

Reguarding cost of membership and number of members, Family(?) membership for my wife and I is $60/year, subscription to THE NEW AMERICAN magazine is $39/year(26 issues?) Even if you don't join the magazine is very good. I had a subscription for five years before joining.
I don't have an answer to the number of members, but there are just under 40,000 paid subscriptions to THE NEW AMERICAN.

As a patroit, and an attourny, I will defend the rights of anyone to belive what they do, no matter how opposite of mine, so I wish the Birch members here well.
I am personally very pleased to see the number of independent minded, thinking sceptics here, it does my heart good to see that level of thought on the part of my fellow membersmembers here.
The easy course of life is to belive what appeals without finding out for yourself the independent facts, to not have to come to hard decisions on your own. It is easy in life to adhere to a doctrine to have a artificial moral high ground over others and in turn hard to stand up to others questioning you patriotism if you don't think exactly like them.
So the the JBS members, I wish you well, and to the others in this string, I say congratulations to staying the hard course.

dacinokc:

Very well put. I wish no one here any ill will... and certainly none based upon their beliefs. Whether or not we agree, reasonable people can disagree without becoming disagreeable.

Thank God we (still) live in a free country where differences of opinion are not only tolerated but are a basic part of our national character.

I wish all here well - and celebrate the beliefs we have in common (like, for example, the RKBA).

Molon Labe

Even if there are merits to the positions expoused by the Brich Society, the general public perception of them is that as a group, they are extremist, not centralist.

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You do know that being a Constitutionalist will get you branded an "extremist" by the communists in this country, don't you?

I always hear about how wacko right wing extrimist The John Birch Society is, then I meet some JBS members and they aren't the wacko conspiracy theorists we always hear they are.

I can't help but wonder if much of the anti JBS attitude among many conservitaves and libertarians isn't part of a liberal media "divide and conquer" tactic. Remember the same sources who tell us the JBS is a bunch of wacko extremists say the same thing about the NRA.


While I don't agree with many JBS positions (like opposing flouride in water for example) I do believe they are more on "our" side then the DNC.

Skimmed the New American Links

This is what I got based on a cursory examination of the material:

-Pro-Life
-Death Penalty up to States, generally support it.
-View China as a threat.
-Anti-Communism (duh)

"Prior to the advent of the income tax in 1913, of course, the federal government had to rely heavily on tariffs because few other revenue streams were available, and so had a powerful incentive to set tariffs at a level that would maximize revenues.

But once the income tax became the primary source of revenue, the federal government was free to set tariffs on the basis of "protectionist" or "free trade" policies -- either making tariffs so exorbitant that imports would be curtailed or eliminating tariffs depending on the prevailing political climate -- without regard to the resulting loss in revenue. "

Generally not protectionists per se... it seems their objection is one of giving foreign bodies like the WTO the power to control our laws.

-Anti-Nationalized Healthcare

-"Homosexuality is a chosen behavior with self-destructive consequences. " yeah, you can guess where this goes

-Pro gun

-Anti-Publik Skuls

-OKC bombing: Believe there was a "cover-up"

-CFR paranoia

-Anti-Taxes, Fully aware of the "hidden tax" of inflation. Note the belief in reverting back to "tariffs for the purpose of raising revenue"

-Pro Religion and "Traditional Values.

-Anti-Immigration

-Anti USA PATRIOT Act.

-Anti-Public Service, a big surprise, almost mirrors the ARI's anti-forced community service.

-Pro ABM defenses.

-Fuzzy on the drug war. Believe drugs imported into the country are a Communist conspiracy.

-Pro Private property. Oppose federalizing land for wilderness purposes.


Anyway... there are some bits that are a little "out there" but the rest of it is solid enough it makes you at least wanna consider what they're saying. A lot of their stuff has good source citing, a lot does not.

I tend to think they're kind of "right wing" Libertarians. Definitely not WSJ sorts either though.

-Morgan

Thanks for all that, Caesar.

If beliefs like that get one painted a "right-wing whacko extremist" even by conservatives, then count me in because I agree with almost all of the above points.

Where do they stand on Coke vs. Pepsi? (and I don't mean new coke because that was all just a big commie conspiracy that thank john moses browning was stopped by ronald reagan a true american to be sure except for when he made a treaty with the aliens to let them use our brian waves to power their spaceships that look coincidentally like the goodyear blimp oh where oh where is my tinfoil hat when i need it.............)

I'm considering joining them.

Are they effective? Do they actually accomplish stuff?

I looked at their self-proclaimed accomplishments on their website, but want your guys' opinions.

Dunno

I ain't heard about'em in any news in forever. I'm an Objectivist (or at least I call myself one), which means I get to disagree with the Libertarians on a few issues, and the Republicans on a few more.

Half the time, I think Bill Buckley might've had the right idea. The other half of the time, I wanna arrange my life so as to minimize the amount of money the government gets from me.

The "Right" I find, more than the left, suffers from people who don't compromise, because they are far more moral than those on the left. We fractionalize ourselves by doing this. Reading a bio on Bill Buckley I read about all sorts of great people who left him because of a strong disagreement on a single issue. You never read about the Left doing that.

Change I think, is best affected from within. So even though Buckley and Rand never got along, I think the Republicans are philosophically, more in agreement with me than the Democrats. I also think they're our best chance at reachieving freedom. How did Franklin phrase it? "We have to hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

But ask me at a different time of the month (for the record I'm male), and perhaps you'll get a different answer.

-Morgan

If you subscribe to THE NEW AMERICAN for one year you will know if you want to join. FYI- I was a little suspicious when I first subscribed so I gave them a slightly misspelled version of my name to see if they sold their subscription list. They did not.