My complaint against milsurp rifles

I can see that if someone started out shooting with a worn out WW2 service rifle, the first time they stepped up to a modern synthetic stocked, scoped, lighter weight, accurate rifle (even something like a nice savage bolt action) they would be impressed, and wonder why they were bothering with an old beat up rifle that can barely hold 6 inches at a hundred yards.

For those of us who entered the other way around though, picking up an Enfield or Mauser with its thick dense wood stock and heavy forged metal parts, hand fitted in many instances, brings back a time when things were made with honest sweat and hard work. A time when dedicated workers invested a bit of themselves in every rifle they assembled, a time when things were made for functionality and durability, and weren't as disposable or glittery as they are now with all their bells and whistles.

I think I go for the ruggedness of the milsurps. I suppose it's the same reason many of us drive SUVs.

Buying a milsurp and being disappointed when it doesn't perform like a Remington 700 is like buying a classic muscle car and expecting it to perform like a modern sports car.

It's about having something old, that was likely used in combat, that you can still shoot recreationally and in some small way understand what the soldiers of another time and place went through.

If you're buying it for hunting you're either very cheap or you're missing the whole point.

Like most here I have a strong appreciation for the history and ingenuity that went in to building those old war horses. Mil Surps to me are fun shooters but I've never expected great things. That said I have a few that will give many rifles made today a run for the money, others are just plain fun.

Thats like someone saying 60-80 years from now that the m16 is a POS, technology updates the way and the quality rifles are made, just like anything else. If you dont like them stop buying them.

The saigas aren't milsurps, theyre newly manufactured sporters.

It always pays to know what you're talking about before opening wide while wearing large sized shoes.

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/report_eventAward.cgi?matchID=3426&eventID=14&awardID=1

ray Camp Perry Swiss Rifles #7 [-]


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(08/07/08 14:28:54)

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Well I just got back from Camp Perry and it was a joyous and great time. My K31 performed well, but but it was me who let it down (5 pts short of bronze) but that's what brings us back year after year, the next day was better and I made the bronze with the M1, its a good rifle too.........I could see where the K31's did dominate the competition though!!!!! That is great!!!!! Ray

http://theswissriflesdotcommessageb...rn-Games--Camp-Butner-North-Carolina-USA.html

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I have a good dozen more, but this should give you an idea, 50caliber123.

Buying a milsurp and being disappointed when it doesn't perform like a Remington 700 is like buying a classic muscle car and expecting it to perform like a modern sports car.

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Exactly. A classic muscle car is something I want to look at when someone else waxes it and takes it to a car show. A sports car is something I actually want to drive.

But a Remington 700? Man, if I got a milsurp and it turned out to be that crappy, I would REALLY get rid of it fast.

Mil-surps aren't for everyone. And in this past year and a half there have been a lot of new shooters buy milsurps purely because of the cost. I for one wouldn't trade my milsurps, one for one, for brand new rifles.

Some people want Ferraris, others want pick-up trucks. Some people look at nothing but the shine, while others only care if the tool will get the job done.

Give me the tool that will get the job done, period. I don't care how bad conditions are, I want the job done. I don't care if the job at hand is work related, home related, defense related, or anything else related. If it needs to be done, I want the proper tool to get it done.

That is exactly what a milsurp is. A tool to do a job. Heck that's exactly what every gun is. The art or beauty in the tool adds nothing to the performance, just the cost.

Wyman

Ferrari's, Fords, whatever......... What counts is what shows on the target. All the talk in the world won't change that.

Watch the whole thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXy_9__xEf4

Some people want Ferraris, others want pick-up trucks. Some people look at nothing but the shine, while others only care if the tool will get the job done

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And some people can't tell that a Ferrari, for all its faults, isn't about "shine." Not that I really would want a Ferrari, or would be stupid enough to buy one instead of a pickup truck to haul stuff, but still...

All I figure is that I spent money on quantity, for things I have no use for, and I should have spent it on quality stuff that I can use for hunting, clay shooting, or doing other fun things outdoors. Blasting away with an old rifle isn't really all that fun, to me.

I appreciate history, but I don't have to OWN everything.

I appreciate history, but I don't have to OWN everything.

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Maybe just an M1 ?

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Or a 1903A3 Springfield?

bear,
Samco global arms has swedish mausers for 595.00, you could even get the sniper version..

Oh my, I love my collection of old, former military rifles. I have one AR15, just because, but it never goes to the range, it just doesn't hold any fascination for me.
Give me an old mauser, mosin, M1, just about anything, and I'm happy as heck.
If all I could have were 'modern' rifles with plastic stocks and such, I think I'd take up a new hobby.
My mother used to say, "It takes all kinds to make a world".

My guess is that you did not appreciate the crisp two stage trigger and the match grade accuracy of the K31. My dad regularly shoots into the mid 400s in milsurp matches at a local range. I shoot mid 300s with my yugo sks. Even my turkish mauser shoots 1-2 MOA sometimes.

Or maybe, just maybe, you got a bum k31. I bought mine for a cool $89.

You either "get it" or you don't. Different strokes for different folks.

go drag some of those milsurps around in mud for a while or try using the stock as a club, then try the same thing with a Rem 7600 (an otherwise very good hunting rifle) and you will soon understand the difference.

or, send them to me. I have sold most of my hunting rifles to but milsurps, which shoot just as accurately.

part of the trick is being able to select a good "shooter". i usually look at muzzle crown and bore condition, but that is not always the final word.

Im all about the history as a old soldier you appreciate the men who carried them as much as the gun . 2 cents

so are we all just shooting full powered military cartridges at 50 yards and complaining about accuracy? these rifles were designed to shoot out to 500+ easily. I find that the further out you go the better accuracy I am actually getting.

I own alot of milsurp and by far the best of the bunch is the M1917 for great accuracy, very sold, excellent sights that are well protected...its simply the best military bolt action ever made IMHO. This is coming from a mauser fanatic btw.

It seems to me that milsurps (milsurp-esque, in the case of the Saiga) simply aren't your game. That's completely fine. More for me!

I must ask though; have you any experience with an M-1 Garand?

Whenever I get a slacker for performance.. I bed the sucker with JB weld.. then it shoots like a champ.. under 2" at 100 yards with irons with just random ammo.. if I shot through glass I would reload for it..

Some I do reload for like my bnz steyr k98.. shoots like a dream.

I think milsurps can be fun. I'm not a big fan in general. But I can understand why folks buy them and like them. Understanding is all that is necessary.

So ive been thinking about dipping my pen in the company ink that is milsurp. I want to start of ruskie and want a mosin. But what is the diffrence between the round and hex reciever? is one a better quality/will take a harsh beating? thanks for your help in advance.

I think a person should learn about there milsurp firearm ,read up on its good points and bad. Learn how to tweek it, so to speak. These rifles went through a lot of punishment till now. Some have there bores shot out and people expect MOA, 1" at 100 yrds. I have had several rifles that out shot modern ones at the range. Enfields 1 mk 4, k31's, Swede mauser to name 3. I paid under 250.00 for them and they paid 800.00 -1200.00 for theirs. A lot of guys buy a milsurp rifle, take it to the range make it go boom!, Flinch!, then are suprised that they got 4-6 inches on the target. Shooting well takes time with any weapon. Its not always the guns fault. If you like modern firearms or milsurps or both, its all good. I like both personally, but I enjoy my milsurps more. Enjoy them both for what they are, and have fun. Arguing over which is best is pointless.

what they lack in finesse, they make up for in weight and cosmoline

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Ha ha....

I have one requirement for a rifle besides reliability: 4" groups at 50 yards from a rest.

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That's asking SO little from a firearm, that I'd have to question one's shooting experience and/or ability.

Also, it's apples-to-oranges to compare a milsurp anything shooting milsurp ammo against a Rem. 700 shooting new factory ammo, duh.

Being able to look back and count the $'s spend on cheap ammo and rifles and say, "Wow! Wish I had spent that $1,000 on something better." must be nice. You probably didn't spend the $1k all in one lump and it's obvious that being able to afford to shoot something now (back then) was better than waiting (saving) until you could spend all $1k on something better, later.

Sounds to me like you learned more about yourself that you did about milsurps.