The Glock 20 10 MM Pistol ?

My very first Glock was the Gen 1 and it was thick and bulky in the grip. I sold it about a year or so later. You may want to try the Slim Frame 20 designated 20SF. I did and it still felt blocky/bulky to me. I do own a G23C and it feels good in the hand. JHMO.

The 21 and the 20 have the same frame.

40S&W and 10mm fire the same bullets.

The G20 is pretty wide, the G20SF (which, by the way is for Short Frame, not slim frame) feels like a completely different gun.

Also, the 40S&W and the 10mm do fire the same bullet, much in the way that a Porsche and a Volkswagen both have an engine.

Thanks for any Imput
P.S. Is there really a major defference between a .40 cal 180 grn. and the 10MM 200 grn. bullet ?

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Here's my take on 10MM today

DO YOU HANDLOAD?

Because if not there's no point to go with the additional cost of 10mm..... Because from what Ive found most with the exclusion of some $50 a box boutique ammo manufacturers 10mm factory loads offered today are watered down to just barely if any more power than .40

Also, the 40S&W and the 10mm do fire the same bullet, much in the way that a Porsche and a Volkswagen both have an engine.

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That doesn't make sense.

The G20 and G20SF will have the same grips width but the G20SF has a shorter grip length. For me the G20 felt like a 2X4 and the G20SF was noticeably smaller and acceptable.
The 10mm has a lot more power than the .40 S&W with full 10mm loads. One has to be careful what 10mm ammo you purchase. Most 10mm ammo has been watered down to what is called "FBI lite" which is a slightly hotter than .40 S&W but the price is a lot higher than standard .40 S&W. 10mm shines with reloaded ammo and the reloading cost are about that of .40 S&W.
One good thing about a G20/G20SF is you can purchase an after market 10-40 barrel so if you don't reload you can shoot cheaper .40 S&W ammo. Also 6" after market barrels are also available in 10mm to give you more chamber support and velocity for hunting.

I own a Mod 20 in 10mm and yes, the grip is slightly wide. However, the upside of this is that it spreads out the recoil over a wider area, thus reducing felt recoil. Of course if you hold it right this shouldn't matter, but it's still nice.

krochus said:

DO YOU HANDLOAD?
Because if not there's no point to go with the additional cost of 10mm..... Because from what Ive found most with the exclusion of some $50 a box boutique ammo manufacturers 10mm factory loads offered today are watered down to just barely if any more power than .40

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Your information is incorrect on a couple of points.

First off, the idea that all name brand factory loads are weak is not entirely true. Corbon DPX is quite hot, as are a couple of the Federal offerings. You just have to know exactly what you're buying.

Yes, the "boutique" shops (DoubleTap, Buffalo Bore) are rather pricey but they are not the only choices anymore for medium-hot to hot loads. Georgia Arms and Freakshow Mfg offer 10mm loads that are much more affordably priced. Georgia Arms, in particular, has some very nice Gold Dot loads (now called "bonded defense") that perform very well.

Being a handloader would conceivably allow one to save some money over time, especially as you reused brass, but the margin is really not a huge one unless you use cast bullets.

I love 10mm but I'll be the first to say that it is not the best choice for everyone....

It is not common to find ammo on the shelf at local retailers - you'd need to buy ammo at gun shows or online to get the most out of it - so if that is a big hurdle for you, you'd be better served by choosing something more common.

It also takes more discipline and a real commitment to practice regularly in order to learn to shoot it well. Recoil is, admittedly, an issue for some shooters as well, although it is usually made out to be worse than it truly is. The more recoil-sensitive among you would be more accurate with a 9mm.

That said, 10mm is a very versatile caliber, offering the widest range of loads of any caliber, and giving truly magnum-level performance in a high-capacity autoloader package.

There is, certainly, much to like about it!

I even "bolded" the word MOST?


I'm not incorrect on a couple points because your entire post agrees with what I said above

P.S. Is there really a major defference between a .40 cal 180 grn. and the 10MM 200 grn. bullet ?

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Twenty grains and about two hundred feet per second. Otherwise, not really.

FWIW that Federal 180 grn 10mm (one of two 10MM loads fro Fed) offering only differs by A Whopping40fps for 10mm vs .40S&W

Couple points-

Those who call the 40sw and 10mm "basically the same" are sorely mistaken or uninformed. I've not found a 40 that will throw 230gr Beartooths at nearly 1250fps, or 135gr Noslers at 1700. That's with my 6" Jarvis pipe, but still impressive.


50rd box of 10mm at Doubletap starts @$30.

If you want a 40sw as well just buy a conversion barrel. They can be had for as little as $100 along with 357sig. You can get a 9x25 barrel as well but you'll pay more.

The bigger grips do help with recoil... G20 and G20sf both handle the heavy loads very well.

Get one... You'll like it. Mid range 41 mag ballistics or 40sw ballistics... Up to you. Probable the most versatile auto there is.

I only get about a 100 fps difference. 1350 fps for the 180gr, 1250 fps for the 200gr

I've chronoed the Georgia Arms loads in the past, and they were much much slower than claimed on the package.

Never tried anybody elses 10mm.

Couple points-

Those who call the 40sw and 10mm "basically the same" are sorely mistaken or uninformed. I've not found a 40 that will throw 230gr Beartooths at nearly 1250fps, or 135gr Noslers at 1700. That's with my 6" Jarvis pipe, but still impressive.

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Hence my point that if you DO NOT handload there's no point in buying a 10mm today. If you think 10mm factory offerings are some fire breathing monster throwback from the wild 1980's you haven't been keeping up with developments. As loaded today by any company you've heard of 10mm is a neutered shadow of it's former self

sigman said:

I'm thinking on buying this as my next pistol.
My quetion is ; Is the grip on this pistol wide and bulky like the old .45 Model 21 pistol is ?

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As mentioned already, the G20 uses the exact same frame as the G21... There is a G20SF available, though, that shortens the trigger reach for those with smaller hands. I'd definitely suggest you search out a local dealer and try them both for yourself. Those that prefer the SF models say it makes all the difference. I, myself, prefer the original grip, as I have longer fingers

sigman said:

Is there really a major defference between a .40 cal 180 grn. and the 10MM 200 grn. bullet ?

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Yes... the differences would be a heavier bullet (~1.3grams difference based on 15.43 grains/gram) and presumably much velocity, resulting in much more kinetic energy. To use some average numbers it could break down like so:

.40cal => 180gr * 990 f/s squared, divided by 450450 = 391.64 ft/lbs

10mm => 200gr * 1150 f/s squared, divided by 450450 = 587.19 ft/lbs
10mm => 200gr * 1300 f/s squared, divided by 450450 = 750.36 ft/lbs

The 10mm loads drive a heavier projectile faster and with much more kinetic energy. This could mean more penetration, depending on the particular bullet chosen, which would make it more suitable for medium-sized game hunting or self-defense in the woods. For defense and two-legged animals I am more in favor of a lighter, medium-hot load:

10mm => 165gr * 1275 f/s squared, divided by 450450 = 595.46 ft/lbs

Just my take on it, though.

Remember, caliber choice is not so much the important thing - what *really* matters the most is how much you practice with whatever you get!

I favor 10mm, myself, but when I made that decision I also made the commitment to practice often enough to shoot it as well as I can 9mm. It took me some time to get to the point where I was happy enough with my performance that I felt comfortable carrying the G29 and, even now, I continue to practice regularly with it to maintain (and improve) my skill level.

Caliber can be a factor in how well the gun performs, but not nearly as much IMO as the shooter! Practice, practice, practice - that is the thing!

krochus said:

I even "bolded" the word MOST?

I'm not incorrect on a couple points because your entire post agrees with what I said above

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Yes, you bolded the word most... which is not accurate. There are many hotter factory loads these days from a variety of vendors - not one or two, and not mostly boutique shops. Factory loads are, by general definition, not exclusively Federal, Speer/CCI, or Hornady... and Georgia Arms would hardly be what I would call a boutique shop.

If you took my comments to be supportive of your claim that only handloaders should choose 10mm, then you totally misunderstood my points. I can buy Georgia Arms practice ammo in bulk for about the same price as I can load it myself in new brass. Where is the big savings??

While I am not one to generally encourage others to choose 10mm, in the end it has little to nothing to do with ammo cost or local availability.

In this day and age anyone could save roughly the same amount by loading their caliber of choice... IF they are so inclined and able to do so. That is not an argument for or against in my book. Neither is the lack of ammo locally, given easy ordering over the Internet from several different vendors. ALL ammo is harder to come by at a fair price in many locations so, again, that is not really a factor.

What ARE factors in proper choice? The performance of the caliber in question, the intended application(s), how well a given shooter can handle the recoil, and what their level of commitment to mastery would be. THOSE are the key factors IMO...

Hand loading does not even come into it.

My first auto was a Colt Delta Elite back when they first came out in the 80's. I was in love with the idea of the 10mm. On paper it was the best cartridge for sure. What I found as I became a more experienced pistol shot, was that recoil, recovery and most importantly rhythm are not as good with the 10mm. This was the whole reason the 40 was invented. Better balance in an auto. Not much point in having 10+ shots in the mag if recoil raises your pistol a foot in the air while 9mm, 40 and even 45 shooters are back on target with their second shot. Now, in a hunting gun I would have a different opinion. Food for thought anyway.

krochus said:

Hence my point that if you DO NOT handload there's no point in buying a 10mm today. If you think 10mm factory offerings are some fire breathing monster throwback from the wild 1980's you haven't been keeping up with developments. As loaded today by any company you've heard of 10mm is a neutered shadow of it's former self

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Did you even read that post before responding?? Show me a .40cal that is capable of shooting 230gr loads... go on, I'll wait... Hint: you won't find it. .40cal maxes out at 210gr for all practical purposes, and that has nothing to do with hand loading.

Look, I get the point you are trying to make... 10mm IS more of an enthusiast's cartridge whose advantages are not fully exploited by a lot of the "off the shelf" ammo. That doesn't mean you HAVE to hand load - it just means you must do a little bit of homework and buy from vendors that know what they are doing... They are out there!

Correct- a lot of off the shelf ammo is watered down... One of the reasons the 10mm isn't as popular as it should be. I roll my own, but for defensive rounds I mainly use Double Tap. I'm not sure what powder blend McNett uses (the one thing he won't tell you) but I can't duplicate his loads and stay within pressure. The 230gr hardcasts will penetrate damn close to my 44mag with 320's... Smaller wound channel but penetration is what counts if you hit what you're aiming at.

The G20 handles the recoil a TON better than the Delta btw...

AND- if you want a 40 you can have that FOR AN EXTRA BILL. You can't turn a 40 into a 10mm with a barrel.

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blue_ridge said:

What I found as I became a more experienced pistol shot, was that recoil, recovery and most importantly rhythm are not as good with the 10mm.

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Well, I can say from my own experiences is that 10mm in a 1911 platform behaves quite differently than 10mm in a Glock. The Glock has a much lower bore axis, resulting in a more controllable pistol, and the polymer frame absorbs a *lot* of the recoil...

They are almost apples and oranges IMO.

blue_ridge said:

Not much point in having 10+ shots in the mag if recoil raises your pistol a foot in the air while 9mm, 40 and even 45 shooters are back on target with their second shot.

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Agreed, and this is where a shooter's commitment level comes into play. Very few can shoot .40cal or .45acp as well as 9mm without practice. 10mm is certainly no different...

How many people buy a .40 because that is what a lot of law enforcement agencies use or a .45acp because they heard it in an action movie or like the look of 1911-style pistols but then don't bother to practice at all? Too many...

Is 10mm worth the extra investment of time and cost required to become proficient? That is a decision each would have to make for themselves, but I would agree that for many the answer should be no.

For woods carry, light hunting, or situations that would likely require shooting through barriers then 10mm is a good choice. I chose it for those very reasons... but I did so knowing full well I would need to practice more often to build my skill level and maintain proficiency. Then again I am big on practice... and it is the most common advice I give other shooters of anyskill level if given a chance

Here's a quick look at factory 10mm loadings from the big three that load it.

Winchester 10mm Auto 175 gr Silvertip JHP has a muzzle velocity of 1295 FPS. The USA JHP at 1010 FPS is the highest velocity 180gr .40 S&W round that Winchester catalogs.

All four cataloged Federal 180gr .40 S&W loadings do 1000 FPS at the muzzle. Both of Federal's 180 gr. 10mm loadings are very watered down at 1030 FPS. Of course Federal is notorious for weak .38 Spl +P & .357 Mag loadings as well, so that's not really surprising.

Hornady's two 10mm 180gr XTP loadings are even worse with both doing 950 FPS at the muzzle. That exactly mirrors their two 40 S&W 180gr loadings, which is very disappointing.

I'm glad that Winchester offers the 10mm Silvertip, because it nearly replicates CorBon's 1300 FPS 180 gr loading. I'm not sure why Hornady & Federal even bother loading 10mm though.

Well, I can say from my own experiences is that 10mm in a 1911 platform behaves quite differently than 10mm in a Glock. The Glock has a much lower bore axis, resulting in a more controllable pistol, and the polymer frame absorbs a *lot* of the recoil...

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My experience is just the opposite. With my short fingers, and using a high thumbs grip to sit the bore lower in my hand, I find a 10mm 1911 far more controllable than a 10mm Glock.

Agreed, and this is where a shooter's commitment level comes into play. Very few can shoot .40cal or .45acp as well as 9mm without practice. 10mm is certainly no different...

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I couldn't agree more. With practice & technique a 10mm pistol is only marginally more difficult to shoot than an identical pistol in .45 ACP.

I agree to the above as well. it is almost always a personal choice. There is almost never a right or wrong answer. Even 44 mag and 22LR can be the right answer for some people. I think the weight of my stainless Colt Delta Elite made it plenty heavy to make it one of the more controllable 10mm around, BUT, having only shot Glocks in 9mm, 40 and 45, I cannot comment. 10mm is an awesome round. I'll take 40 instead for my purposes.