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And suddenly, you have a lot more to deal with. But that's not their problem.
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I am not trying to change the topic but at an accident scene once I heard a cop say.... "Ok... 3 things... 1st, my shift is ending and I do not need to deal with you or this situation any longer....." the other two items did not matter.

Thanks for sharing your story. Any story where no one but the BG got hurt was handled well in my eyes. Sure, things could always have been done "better" but perhaps doing something different then your instincts told you to do could have resulted in your death.
 
Thank you for sharing RoostRider. Don't beat yourself up about not killing the guy.If you had,instead of firing the warning shot,I fear things would have turned out much worse for you. Even though they shouldn't have. If I were in the situation I would never think he would just go to a different house, I'd figure he would at least take the night off...
 
Like many others have said, thanks for your post and sharing your experience RoostRider.

The number one point that your story drives home for me is the fact that no matter how much you think about it, how much you train for it, when the SHTF you are going to make mistakes. You are going to be human. And whatever the outcome, you are going to have to deal with a lot of emotional stress.

IMHO, whenever you negotiate a traumatic situation, you'll always wonder if you made the right decisions. You will have to trust that this time, you did everything right.

Thanks again for sharing.
 
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An excellent reason NOT to kill another person in a "man-to-man" confrontation is the paperwork. You couldn't beLEEVE the paperwork. And if you attempt to present the same idea or act in slightly different words, get ready for at least a half-hour of cross examination and a couple of rebuttal witnesses. My advice: With the first 10 rounds you shoot off his fingerprints; then his face, with particular attention to the teeth; last, the DNA which will give you pretty good deniability and you can say, "Gee, I didn't ralize he was my worst enemy in high school."

All right class. Tomorrow's discussion will be "Revolver versus Pistol: Policing the Brass."
 
You clearly made a few mistakes there, but I'm glad everything turned out good in the end.

It's a mistake to let your boundaries get mushy. You did this by allowing friends and people to climb in at all hours. The first rule to security is to not let people in. If you have a lock use it, and if you have a door don't open it. But that's a mistake many many people make.

And obviously you made a mistake confronting a home invader with fists instead of getting your firearm immediately. If he'd been armed you would have been in real danger attacking him. There's an old saying, "reach throw row go" that applies to drowning people. You don't dive in and wrestle them unless there's no other alternative. You use TOOLS first. Hand-to-hand combat is what you resort to if you have no other choice.

And of course you should not have chased him down or fired the warning shot. To have shot him as he was running away on the sidewalk would have been a much bigger mistake, though. The time to shoot would have been when he was first invading the home, before you wrestled with him.
 
Warhawk83 said:
If I were in the situation I would never think he would just go to a different house, I'd figure he would at least take the night off...
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I remember thinking just that.... "well, I bet he's done for the night"....

Gatorbait said:
All right class. Tomorrow's discussion will be "Revolver versus Pistol: Policing the Brass."
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ummmm.... *cough*cough*.... sadly, there is some more to the story that revolves around this....

Apparently, St Paul has gunshot sensors set up all around the city... they can apparently tell from triangulation where the shot came from.... unfortunately the sensors either heard my shot and an echo, or they heard another shot somewhere, or they just plain failed.... but they registered two shots and the police were adamant that I had shot twice (not so much a warning move as an "I missed" move)... they interogated me quite vehemently about it.... telling me again and again "you were trying to kill him!!", "we know you shot twice, not once like you claim".....

I stuck to my guns on this one (pun intended).... but at some point I started to doubt myself... "could I have made this mistake?".... but I kept coming back to "no, I couldn't".... they already had my gun.... asking me how many rounds were in it when I retrieved it.... "16.... I think?".... "but I racked the slide outside the bedroom... one might have already been in the chamber".... "I don't really know", had to be my final answer....

They didn't lighten up until after a through search of my yard and the walk around my house, in which they only turned up one piece of brass....

But before he left, the lead officer came up to me and said... "I'm gonna take your word for it, but if I get a call tomorrow from someone with a hole in his car or house down the road, I'm coming back here and arresting you."....

I remember thinking while I stayed awake that night.... "what happens if someone DOES report a hole somewhere within a mile of my house?".... they sure aren't going to buy my story... (and an inkling of "I should have kept my mouth shut!!!")

I have since decided on carrying a revolver partly with that in mind..... no question about how many rounds were in it (fully loaded), no question about where those brass are (in the gun), no question as to how many were fired (how many are empty)

Cosmoline said:
And of course you should not have chased him down or fired the warning shot. To have shot him as he was running away on the sidewalk would have been a much bigger mistake, though
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I made a lot of mistakes, but I did not 'chase him down' as much as 'clear my property' (or at least that's how I put it to the officers :) )... nor did I shoot at him as he was running away... I yelled at him and he turned and came towards me... but yeah, that was all a big mistake...

It turned out to be in my favor that MN law didn't read as I had thought.... I was allowed, legally, to stop a fleeing felon with the threat of deadly force... I did just that.... I was allowed, legally, to clear my property (so long as I felt there was still a potential threat there... and I did)... and I was allowed, legally, to shoot someone I had valid reason to see as a threat to my safety....

Again, do I think it helped that this was a notorious murderous felon?.... ummmmm, YEAH, I sure do.... man, when I think of how it might have gone down.....

Yeah, I deal with it OK for the most part.... but it all bothers me.....
 
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Don't worry about it, and thanks for sharing. These are just good teaching points for everyone. When it really hits the fan it's tough to keep a clear head.

The really big issue IMHO is failing to keep a secure boundary to begin with. People buy expensive alarm systems, locks, etc. then over and over they let folks come and go at all hours and open the door with nothing more than a knock on the other side. All the preparation in the world means nothing if people can just wander in and out of your place.
 
Thanks for sharing your story. Based on the results, you did well (i.e. you lived and were not prosecuted).

I have learned a few things that might help you.

1. The only way to make a perfect decision is if you can accurately predict the future. Since predicting the future is impossible, so is making a perfect decision.

2. You spent some time asking yourself why the punk chose to do this. The second thing I have learned is this: Don't look for a rational explanation for irrational behavior.

I'd suggest you consider moving to a safer neighborhood. Life is too short to put up with this kind of crap.

Again, I think you did very well.
 
Cosmoline said:
These are just good teaching points for everyone.......

The really big issue IMHO is failing to keep a secure boundary to begin with.
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Agreed, that's why I finally decided to post it.... and why no friend of mine would think it's acceptable to sneak in my window at night anymore.....

Pweller said:
I'd suggest you consider moving to a safer neighborhood.
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I moved here from my extremely rural northern Minnesota upbringing to find some adventure....lol.... I sure did just that....

At this point I have moved to a safer neighborhood... lol... and that's where it happened... (you should see my old hood)... and I have built a successful business here... moving, at this point, is not much of an option....

Besides, someone has to live here.... while that doesn't mean me, I have never been the one to run from problems.... and I'm not running away from my neighborhood and neighbors simply because it's not the safest place in the tri-state area....

I do appreciate the advice though.... some day.... some day....
 
Paying compensation while in prison

Five years ago the daughter of a friend of mine was kidnapped, raped and left for dead by a school bus stop near Appleton WI where children found her, naked, brain dead and her body dying.

The Milwaukee detectives took it gravely seriously due to the nature of the crime. They got the bastard, a repeat offender, he was convicted and is in prison.

He was ordered to pay restitution. My friend regularly gets check from him through the prison system. She showed me the biggest one. $12.
- Backpacker :cuss:
 
Thanks for posting. I think you did OK. I had a situation 20+yrs ago when we were awakened by someone on the roof of the duplex. I grabbed my 38 revolver and headed out the door. Lucky for me it was cold and I was shoeless. Don't know who or what happened to him.
Don't beat yourself up. Stay armed stay safe.
 
Don't beat yourself up. You can't predict the future and couldn't have known all the then-irrelevant details.

I'm not going to armchair quarterback or play internet rambo here. From what you could gather under the circumstances, you acted perfectly.

Thanks for sharing, so others can learn from it.
 
RoostRider said:
The cops came and dealt with me after all the hub-ub.... they confiscate my gun as evidence, tell me I should have killed the guy and that I will get the gun back after the case is settled.
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What is it with that? I have heard LEO's make that kind of statement on more than one occasion. Maybe I am paranoid, but I think it is designed to identity with you and help you to incriminate yourself because you are thinking that the Officer gets it...

IMO...

I always have a piece within arms reach these days. A guy got popped in my neighborhood a few years ago, 3 more a few blocks down the road in the last 2 years... Flashlight, piece, radio (FRS we use them like intercoms / phones here), cop of coffee...
 
Interesting read, thanks for posting.

I'm not going to armchair this because every situation is different. It sounds like you did what you could with the time you had, which was little. Glad to hear you weren't hurt and the bad guy is locked up.
 
I'm glad that scumbag is off the street, albeit temporarily. Nice job defending your property and your neighborhood, before and after the event itself.

I'm not a big fan of Monday Morning Quarterbacks, so I'll make only one comment about what could have been done better: Always be armed, even in your home. If he'd had a gun, you might have gotten a fo-tay to the head instead of a punch. Otherwise, I feel you acted as well or better than anybody could be reasonably expected to act.
 
I'm glad the OP didn't kill the perp. He turned out to be scum of the earth, but there have been plenty of other cases where it wasn't so clear, and the shooter was crucified in the media, lost his/her job, etc. Better not to have it on one's conscience or have life turned upside-down, if it wasn't necessary for survival.

It's difficult to judge the actions of another in this situation, but I'm glad the OP was unhurt. That one outcome tells me that he did more things right than wrong. I admit to grinning when I read the part about the goblin vs. police dogs, though.

Well done, and glad you're OK (both physically and legally),
Dirty Bob
 
Hats off to you. For most (and certainly HOPEFULLY) it's a once in a lifetime situation. If someone tried to rob you every day, then you could worry about getting it perfect. Since that's not the case, the best you can hope for is to train, train, train, prepare yourself, and hope you're lucky. In the end, if you get out of it alive, you've done alright.

And don't be surprised if he doesn't do hard time either. My brother in law is a retired LEO in the northeast. Out of the more than 300 individuals he had arrested over his career involving drugs, guns, and attempted murder, he knows of a grand total of 3 that did any real time.
 
03Shadowbob said:
One question...was he a member of a gang and have you been targeted from his fellow gangmembers?
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Well, that's two questions but the answers are yes and no respectively.

It has been my experience that gang members are cowards. I doubt there is a member of his gang that is bold enough to threaten the guy who beat up and then shot at his 'buddy'.

3 times now I have testified against large gang members (including two murder raps). Not once have I been even approached by someone representing them, not even an attorney much less a gang member. I'm not the sort to fold to that kind of pressure, and I think my actions that involved the gang members spoke to that pretty well.
 
03Shadowbob said:
I hear you however just wondering. MS13, Kings, Bloods, Crips all have the rep and rightly so of going after folks.
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The Crips and the Bloods were involved in the two murders.

In all honesty, I lived in the heart of a gang war for two years, and I mean in the heart of it, at the time that Minneapolis earned the name "Murderapolis". They were pulling bodies out of my alley on a weekly basis there for a while. I never once witnessed the violence spread beyond the confines of the gangs and cops, aside from accidentally or coincidentally (the gangs actually assassinated a police officer, Officer Hoff, as well) .... and I can't express to you just how 'in the middle of it' I was... SWAT teams surrounded my block on regular occasions... other times, you couldn't get a cruiser to come by if you said you had a dead body in your yard, literally.... I reported a murder and waited for at least an hour before a squad arrived... when they did arrive, it was six squads with 12 officers, and they left in a group as well...

I was 'Joe White America' who lived on the corner and didn't like being f'd with... they all knew I packed, and not because anyone told them, but because they clearly didn't intimidate me at all... when they messed with me or mine (stupid harassment of my GF one time, and some comments to friends coming over and whatnot), I let them know in no uncertain terms that it wasn't going down that way... Mind you I was never disrespectful or aggressive, I just went over there and looked them in the eye and said "I don't want any problems, but if problems come looking for me they are going to be big problems by the time they get back to you".... they never messed with anyone coming to my house again... in fact, they kind of made sure no one messed with me or mine.... there were comments overheard such as "man, don't f*** with her, she's with that crazy M*F*er on the corner"... and when they were trying to hustle someone on the sidewalk who turned to go up to my house, they respectfully backed off.... and when I would walk right down the sidewalk past them and not give in to be being 'crowded' off the walk I would hear comments like "that MoFo's gotta be packin' "... I'd just keep walking... they wouldn't try to intimidate me again...

The thing that most people don't understand is that most violence, even gang violence, is driven by fear.... these people are mostly cowards with an occasional psychopath/sociopath in the mix... if they even think for a second that their 'victim' might not end up being the victim, they simply move on...
 
RoostRider -

Mine makes the 50th post in this thread, and I don't think you've been flamed in a single one of them. That's saying quite a bit about how you did pretty well, given the situation.

I'll echo the sentiment. Your actions weren't perfect, and you got a bunch of luck, all things considered, but you walked away and the perp didn't.

I also have to say that as it turned out, you were able to choose not to shoot and still be alive and safe. Therefore, while shooting him may have been legal, it was not required. Will some people in the future probably have regrets that he didn't die that night? Probably.

But only you have to live with you. If you had killed him, knowing that you didn't have to to stay safe? That's not something I would wish on anyone.
 
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