Cowboy DA guns??

The truth of the matter is that DA revolvers were around during the "Wild West" days.The earliest that I can think of would be the Colt Lightning revolver that appeared in the 1870's IIRC. William H. Bonney, AKA:Billy the Kid, carried a pair of these. Colt also had a swing out cylinder model in the 1880's that really is the basis of the design and manual of arms for most modern revolvers, though I can't think of the model name at the moment. S&W introduced the M&P revolver (What would become the Model 10 in 1957) in 1899.

I know that H&R or perhaps it was High Standard (maybe both?) produced DA revolvers resembling a Colt SAA.

The model 1878 Colt looks very similar to the legendary Colt Single Action Army. Only the grips made them look different, other than the larger trigger guard. Back in those days, I believe they called them self-cockers. LM

Double action revolvers were certainly around in the days of the Old West, notably the Colt "Lightning" and "Thunderer" (as they were nicknamed) c. 1878. Despite the Colt New Army/Navy and the Smith & Wesson Military & Police also being in this time frame (1889 and 1899, respectively), being swingout cylinder designs, they don't really fit in with the "Old West." The 1878 Colt was a design "dead end," with very fragile lockwork. If you can find one that still works, it will have a collector's price tag on it, not last with any kind of competition, and there are no parts. Nor are any replicas of it made, AFAIK.

Also in the time frame, the British had a number of DA revolvers (e.g., Webley, Adams), but these go more with "deerstalker" caps or pith helmets than a cowboy hat.

There was also double action revolver in the ball and cap era too, the Star revolver came in both double and single action and several of the British revolvers of that era were also double action. But, most of the early ones were not as reliable as their single action counterparts. And reliablility was the final word in those days. In fact allot of the sheriffs out west used a single action revolver well into the 20th century.

Single actions are only "obsolete" if you don't know how to use them. Which is true of anything.

First of all, there is nothing obsolete about the SAA design itself.

The Lightning was a delicate little thing. We own one, in working condition, but it is a virtual museum piece. We wonder which compression of those delicate springs will be the last for one of them.

There were plenty of DA revolvers being made during the USA's "old west" era, across the pond in the British Isles. The US played cowboys and Indians, while the Brits, who quickly grew to prefer DA, played redcoats and Zulus. Of course, the Brit Victorian-era DA revolvers have their own look, not a "cowboy" look.

High Standard used to make some SAA-looking revolvers chambered in .22 LR, which show up on the pre-owned market.

There were ALL KINDS of double action guns. There were even semi-automatic pistols and bolt action rifles in circulation before then end of the 'Old West'.

But don't tell the SASS - They don't allow such things in competition. This is probably why there are so few alternate designs in production; they are essentially useless to the CAS community.

TexasGunbie said:

I always love SA cowboy guns...

But now days people always debate that these cowboy guns are obsolete in real life situation and been replace by DA sixguns.

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While I think that SA (-only) revolvers in the Colt Single Action Army-type pattern (i.e. single-round loading gate) have certain disadvantages with regard to reloading, if you don't need to reload--and most people in most self-defense scenarios by far do not--then they're hardly obsolete. For one thing, you can shoot them very fast when using the support-hand thumb to cock the hammer. Those who have physical issues that make it difficult or impractical to rack a slide or pull a DA revolver trigger may find that SA revolvers suit them best.

S&W model 10. Look at the guns that were used in one of the best westerns of all time: The Wild Bunch.

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/The_Wild_Bunch

1 Handguns
1.1 Colt M1911/Star Model B
1.2 Single Action Army
1.3 Colt New Service
1.4 Smith & Wesson Model 10
1.5 Enfield No.2 Mk.I*
1.6 Luger P08

2 Rifles & Carbines
2.1 Springfield M1903A3
2.2 Winchester Model 1892 Saddle Ring Carbine
2.3 Winchester Model 1892
2.4 Mauser 1912

3 Shotguns
3.1 Winchester Model 1897
3.2 Winchester Model 1912
3.3 Single Barrel Shotgun
3.4 Double-Barreled Shotgun

4 Machine Gun
4.1 Browning M1917

5 Miscellaneous
5.1 Dynamite

The guns of the old west weren't all Colt SSAs.

If it is the "look" one is after, keep in mind that one thing that sets most DA sixguns apart from the SAA-style sixguns is the depth of the frame, because of the more complex mechanism, and typical use of coil-type trigger return springs arranged fore-and-aft.

I am not sure of the internal parts arrangement of the previously-mentioned High Standard DA revolvers that look like SA sixguns.

I am sure one could increase the cowboyishness of a DA by starting with a fixed-sight sixgun, having a 'smith graft on a customized hammer spur, and by using custom grip panels, working within the constraints of the existing grip frame. Certain grip panels made by Herretts may still be available, that have a certain amount of 19th-Century flavor. There are even single-action kits that were made by S&W for K-frames, to convert them to single-action-only guns for bullseye competition, though the kit does nothing to make the revolver look different externally, except the larger and wider spur, which does not resemble an SAA spur. These kits are no longer made, but they turn up occasionally at gun shows and such.

The recently-released Sherlock Holmes movie has examples of Victorian-era Brit revolvers. I had read what models they are, but don't recall right now.

There was a show on the Wednesday night Gun shows on the Outdoor channel, a week or two ago about one of the "Big Gun Instructionalcompanies", Gunsite or one of them that is teaching a Self Defence course with Single Action Revolvers. they teach Tactical Loading "as you go" to make it a pretty good defensive option. I'm not sure which of the Gun teaching Companies it was. But Heyy!, It looked pretty good.

Old John, I know that the Thunder Ranch has done that before and I have heard of men who knew old to run a lever gun to make AR boys looks bad taking a old Winchester 1892 and doing as well idf not beating them.

Old John - the school was Gunsite and that was the first SA class they offered. It's on their calendar again, in May of 2011.

S&W had double action revolvers in the line as early as 1880, in .32, .38, .38-40, .44-40, and .44 Russian. And not only were they double action, but they were fast to reload as well, being top break. While they were fairly delicate, they were at least as reliable as the Colt models 1877 and 1878. (Yes, the big bores were those funny looking guns with the curly triggers and enough cylinder notches and cuts to satisfy any sculptor. But they worked pretty well.)

Also fitting into the "old west" timeframe were the Colt swing cylinder revolvers, including the .38 service revolvers.

Jim

Rexster said:

The recently-released Sherlock Holmes movie has examples of Victorian-era Brit revolvers. I had read what models they are, but don't recall right now.

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Webley No. 5 "Express" Revolver
Webley Bulldog
Pryse revolver
Enfield Mark II Revolver
Nagant M1895

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Sherlock_Holmes

TexasGunbie said:

So if they can't pull the DA trigger, then just cock the hammer back and shoot it as SA right?

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Sure, you can do this with DA revolvers, but the reasons that I expressed a preference for SA revolvers are that they're more ergonomically designed for this mode of firing, in my opinion, and it is possible to hold down the trigger and slip-fire them with the thumb and hammer alone, which is not possible with DA revolvers.

So the choice here is largely between being able to reload more quickly (using speedloaders), and using a system that is better designed and optimized for SA defensive/combat shooting. However, note that since many people apparently do not even take reloading during defensive situations into consideration at all, the main advantage of DA revolvers is moot for them. Also, those who expect to have to reload could always use the Old West method--a second loaded revolver (which is probably more effective for both SA and DA revolvers anyway).

TexasGunbie said:

They are not obsolete but just not as practical compare to now days weaponry in my opinion,

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They may be obsolescent in some obvious ways, but as long as they have a practical use, as I've just described I believe, then they are not obsolete--just underestimated.

TexasGunbie said:

but I would still love to have one,

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Me too because the Old West-styled ones are just freaking cool! And I've probably been brainwashed by watching so many Westerns during my childhood....

TexasGunbie said:

and wish I am gutsy enough to conceal carry it too. =)

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As you probably know, some people actually do. The guns still work like they always did, and in skilled hands can be as effective as modern sidearms (unless you need lots of ammo, which is rather rare albeit not outside of the realm of possibility).

Another old DA or self-cocker is "Cooper", as that company made a percussion DA revolver durring the Civil War or War of Northern Agression for those living in the south. LM

Awesome SA shooting. Scroll down to pistol. Click on 1st Place Deuce Stevens and be amazed. Then enjoy the others.

http://www.spencerhoglund.com/worldrecords.html