DA/SA Modern Revolver...The choice for the modern cowboy?

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packarat

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So after causing some controversy, largely due to some uneducated facts from yours truely, I thought I would start something similar here. Don't get me wrong this is a topic that is providing my honest opinion. I just have this feeling that others may not have the same :)

I currently own a 6 inch GP100. This is my go to, life or death, everyone open carries, once the zombies show up, range and "cowboy" gun. The latter is the main topic of this post.

If I was a cowboy, circa the present, and allowed to choose among the vast assortment of firearms available to me it would have to be a modern DA/SA revolver, GP100 in my case. The way I see it SA would only become a limitation.

In a situation that would require constant concentration and quick reaction SA action would actually hamper resolution. I know there are individuals that can move this action extremely fast. My thought was for the average Joe.

With DA and SA capabilities an individual could, if needed, discharge their weapon with a simple pull of the trigger. Some training is of course required to be come accustomed to the differences required of the different trigger pulls. In my opinion the stress involved when in a scenario that would require quick action justifys the DA.

My GP100 was my first purchase, I also shoot it the best. I'm not a traditionalist and for Christmas I am looking forward to a buscalero rig.

What do you think? If you had to walk around town with a revolver of some sort what would that be?

Let's not talk about the uber tactical 45 shot autos with the integral rail combining lasers and vampire killing bayonets :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong I have an auto, I really want to explore the thought that the DA/SA revolver would be the choice of the modern day cowboy. Let's pretend technology has been limited to revolvers and the auto was never invented :cool:
 
At first glance, I would say that this line of reasoning is OK. Times HAVE changed, and we must of course evolve with the times.

That being said, I STILL believe that for general outdoor use, the old thumbbuster has the upper hand.

Consider the salient points:

1. Calibers and availability

The double action revolvers can be had in any caliber that the single actions can handle--however, the single actions historically can handle a greater range of loads--as long as you're talking about a good strong revolver of recent manufacture.

I would not, of course, put planet wreckers in a Colt SAA, regardless of year of manufacture. My Bisley Vaquero, however, can handle .45 Colt loads approaching the power of a .454 Casull without problems.

2. Balance and handling

The typical double action pull poses a problem for smaller hands. My wife can not pull any of my DA revolvers through a full cycle. She can, however, easily cock and fire the Vaquero.

3. Handling of recoil.

Again, the nod goes to the single action. I have fired my two most powerful revolvers extensively--my .44 Model 29 and the .45 Vaquero. The .44 can be a handful, especially with heavy loads, and it can be downright painful to shoot.

The Bisley Vaquero, however, will handle heavy .45 loads with ease. It also rolls upward in the hand upon firing--the recoil is not so much a snap or slap--more of a push. Simply hooking my thumb around the hammer before bringing the gun back to level will cock it for the next shot.

The only real disadvantage is speed in reloading--and I submit that if you find yourself out on the lonesome prairie in a situation where you have to reload, you had better transition fast to your saddle gun...







which IMHO would also evolve with the times.....





(in my scabbard, it would be an AR-10. ;))
 
I would say something big like a Ruger Redhawk or Super Redhawk. After all, back then they did carry .44 and .45 Colt revolvers which were the biggest revolvers at the time. Instead of a Derringer in your boot maybe a S&W M642 or M638.

If S&W is more to your liking (like me) then maybe the retro M22 in .45 ACP or a few M21's in .44 Special or M29's in .44 Magnum

Of course, if you were the Law you might want to carry a S&W M327 TRR8. A 5" barrel, 8 rounds of .357 Magnum on Moonclips and a rail for mounting a light. The Law needs extra firepower LOL.
 
I have three Single Action Revolvers and have worked with cattle and horses in the past in my life, as I will again in the future.

For a "Cowboy" in today's society, if ahorseback, I would still choose the Single Action. The reason for this is one of safety. Picture for a moment, if you will, that you need to fire your handgun while on the back of your "trusty steed".

After you have fired that shot, that your horse was not expecting, you are now involved in a full blown RODEO. Your horse is pitching and "sunfishing" trying to unseat you from your perch. This is not the time to have a gun in your hand that you can fire again by depressing the trigger.

I guarantee you that as you are pulling leather your hand will be squeezing your handgun for all it's worth. You will not be conscious of your muzzle's direction at a time like this. THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR A DOUBLE ACTION ANYTHING!

There is a reason the United States Army selected the Colt SAA over the S&W Schofield in 1873. If you want to be a cowboy and play with horses and cattle I still encourage you to use a Single Action Firearm. If you just want to "look the part" I can't help you.

Biker :)
 
There is a reason the United States Army selected the Colt SAA over the S&W Schofield in 1873.
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Yes, and that reason is that the Colt SAA performed better in the testing the Ordnance Department did, and was considered simpler (it had fewer parts) and more robust. Both are single action however.

Later however, the US Cavalry were quite happy to choose the Colt 1911, which was modified from earlier versions of the Colt Automatic better to suit use from horseback, eg by the addition of lanyard loops on both pistol and magazines (to reduce the risk of dropping or losing them), addition of a slide stop to make reloading easier, and addition of a grip safety. The rodeo problem doesn't seem to have been an issue - a bit of training helped no doubt;)
 
The US Army (Calvary) quickly adopted the 1873 SAA in .45 Colt. It had the poop required to fell their ride - for cover. The existing 1871 .44 Russian, although adopted by the Russians and many of our bad guys - both of whom only wanted to drop bad guys - and reload much faster - was nixed as it was a bit milder. The 1875 Schofield was nixed, although it was still barely able to drop horses, because of it's ammo requirement. It would only chamber and fire the shorter .45 S&W/Schofield round, and not the longer previously adopted .45 Colt. The SAA would take both, simplifying the supply logistics, perhaps more important in it's continuance. There would be no .45 Colt leverguns until well after the turn of the century. In fact, Colt would not equal the sheer number of S&W's faster reloading top-breaks in production until after the turn of the century.

The .45 Colt load was lowered by the turn of the century to 32 gr fff from 40gr - same 250gr bullet. The Government 'AS' round specification was to mimic this - and resulted in the .45 ACP of 1911 fame. This was also the round used in the 1917 S&W and Colt revolvers made to help the Brits before we joined them in the first World War, being significantly better at dropping the foe than the .455 Webley (and faster to reload!).

One of the latter great calvary leaders, later to become SIR Winston Churchill, enjoyed the then new C.1898 'Broomhandle' Mauser atop a horse - no doubt for it's capacity and ease of reloading. So, the calvary ran the gamut over the years... SAA to semi-auto's. The bg's then as now - went for faster reloads. The 'original residents' in the US, unfortunately for them, were a bit behind, save at the 'Little Big Horn' - where they picked off the calvary - making their stand in a depression - with a few Henry 'yellow boy' repeaters, the calvary's Springfield trap doors having 'jammed' because they left the cleaning rods at the post. Modern day forensics proved the use of just a few of the repeaters - from various points around the perimeter. He deserved it - his intent was to slaughter the old men, women, and children in their encampment across the river when he was surprised.

I found out late in my life that my great grandfather was Cherokee - and my name was from a clan-name. My theory is that it means 'deer droppings', or something similar...

Stainz

PS My favorite .45 Colt firearm, and I have owned Blackhawks, Vaquero's, (.454) Super Redhawk, and Redhawk, is the S&W 625 Mountain Gun - I have two such in .45 Colt. It is more natural for me - now - to pick up a revolver and 'just squeeze'. It is all in how you practice.
 
A GP100 is a wonderful weapon; autoloaders are just a passing fad. :) The .357 is a gentle enough cartridge in recoil, that the gentler-kicking SA design is not important. Watch out for the rig, though, a buscadero rig will beat a horseback rider into submission! Look at the wonderful rigs crafted by Bob Mernickle for a Western flavor but with practicality in mind.
 
Go with large bores

double action or single action should be your preference. I cannot think of a circumstance where I'd try to shoot anything from atop a horse. Many a cowboy action shooter has shot themselves or their mount while participating in mounted shooting. A damned fool enterprise if ever there was one.
Elmer Keith had the right idea. A single or double action .44 or .45 with a good bullet, usuallhy of his own design will be about perfect.
 
Look at the wonderful rigs crafted by Bob Mernickle for a Western flavor but with practicality in mind.
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+1

I'd carry about the same thing I'd have carried 100 years ago,just better ammo.
 
I live on a ranch, and I carry a 1911 in 10mm in an IWB holster:evil:

It is powerful enough to do the things I need to do with a side arm.

It it flat enough to be comfortable to carry in an IWB holster which is far more secure while on the hurricane deck of a "hay burnin' broomtail" or an ATV.

It also doesn't stick out from your belt, and catch on barbed wire fences or bounce around when you are working in corrals, or climbing fences to get away from some angry Momma that has intentions of walkin' up your back side if she catches you.:eek:

If I gotta shoot sumthin' I'm gonna git off of that hoss. My Momma raised some dummies, but they was my sister!!!!:D
 
While many prefer Marlin leverguns and Ruger Blackhawks, the original Colt SAA and Win 1873 still work as well as they ever did for the outdoorsman and are still available from the various importers and stronger than the originals. While I like the adjustable sights and increased power of modern guns I also like the smooth handling and beauty of the classics. Theres much less threat of indians and bandits today in the outdoors (in town is a different story) so I see even less need for double action now. Regardless, if you have time to draw you have time to cock the hammer, and if you have time to recover from the recoil of a powerfull gun you have time to recock the hammer, and if you have time to reload you have time to get your rifle. Sure a man might be better armed with an AR10 and 1911 but aside from combat I doubt most of us would be any better off than a SA revolver and lever action rifle.
 
Personally, I like the .357 in DA weapons such as the SP101 and GP100, but with bigger bores I like the SA sixguns. I praised the GP100 because the OP has such a sixgun already. Both types are good. Let's remember that DA sixguns existed 'way back, too, such as the 1877 Colt Lightning.
 
Anyone here ever read Elmer Keith's book Sixguns. Although in the early years he mostly used Colt single action revolvers, later he used and carried daily various S&W double actions with some pretty hefty loads.
 
I'd pick a .357 Mag DA revolver in stainless steel with a 4-6 inch barrel. To me, that would be the most versatile tool to carry.

As far as brand...probably Ruger, but I like S&W and I own Taurus revolvers.

I'd also have a lever action rifle of the same caliber in the saddle scabbard (probably a Marlin 1894C)
 
FWIW, my daily carry both on foot and mounted is a 4" .357 DA revolver in an OWB leather holster. I have no doubt that a single-action sixgun would serve equally well, and in fact my "wish list" includes a "new model" Vaquero in .357.

I also have an "old" Vaquero in .45 Colt but it is just a little heavy and bulky for everyday carry. I don't put on a different gun just because I'm getting on my horse. Though I should carry it now and then just for fun. :)

I don't plan on shooting at anything while mounted. Sadly, the mostly likely use of a sidearm while horseback riding would be to put down a badly injured horse :( That, and the real possibility of getting spooked by a cougar, falling off, and having my horse head home without me while I deal with the big pussy cat. :uhoh:

Some things I have learned: you really have to get your holster in a precise place (2.45-3.00 strongside for me) to be comfortable on horseback. Though I think the modern saddles with the angled cantle that wraps around your hips are part of this. The old stock saddles had a more vertical cantle which might have been more forgiving with a sidearm. (not everything has been improved)

Another thing is that spare cartridges in loops on your belt quickly ride up and out and get lost in the saddle (at least in modern saddles). I've got one of those UM nylon 6-pack belt slides, and the only place that I can wear it in the saddle is about the 8.30 position. Anything farther back and I lose cartridges. One could also carry them in front (10.00 or 2.00 position).

As much as I prefer sixguns, most any quality sidearm that one is comfortable with would serve as well on horseback as anywhere else - once you figure out how to fit yourself and all the hardware that you are wearing into your saddle.
 
I used a Smith Mtn Gun for that stuff but my CZ-75B .40 is a lot less noticable in the saddle so I use both. On the Colt deal after 1875 Frankfort went to the Schofeild length case with the Colt sized rim due to recoil and failure of the early Colt SAA guns. So basicly all GI .45 ammo after 1875 was the Schofeild load. The 2.45 position works great for me. The Schofeild was not around till 2 or 3years after the colt was adopted too. The gun it competed with was the old model No-3 in .44 american that was the offical cartridge army issue revolverbefore 1873. The army did not like the .44 american round at all due to being a healed bullet design and prefered the new .45 that Frankfort had designed.
 
my "wish list" includes a "new model" Vaquero in .357. I also have an "old" Vaquero in .45 Colt but it is just a little heavy and bulky for everyday carry.
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I have a 50th Anniversary .357 Blackhawk built on the same frame as the new Vaquero and an original Vaquero in .357 with 4 5/8 inch barrel also. I was surprised to find that the original Vaquero weighs just a hair less than the 50th Blackhawk. Since .357s weigh more than .45s in the same platform, I would be surprised if you gained any weight savings with a New Vaquero .357 over an "old" Vaquero in .45 Colt. The difference in weight between the frames is slight. I'm sure the adjustable Blackhawk gains a tad of weight with the topstrap and larger front sight but I don't think you'll see much, probably no, savings in weight with the plan you mention.
 
King Cobra in 357

Just my opinion, but I have a king cobra in 357 mag with a 4" barrel and I love it, so that is the gun I would carry. I have never ridden a horse, but I have driven around in my PU while wearing my King Cobra in forward cant style holster and other then my "spare tire" getting in the way, I really like this setup. I tend to wear the holster in the "kidney" position. I also have used UM's speed loader carriers and find them adequate if not attractive.

If I could carry anything I wanted I would be torn between my 45 1911 and my recently acquired Stoeger Cougar with proper hollow points, nothing like 15 rounds compared to 6, unless we are worried more about 4 legged beasts, then I prefer 357 mag. I know 44 mag or some of the other higher powered rounds would be better for 4 legged beasts, but I simply find them a little too much for comfortable shooting. IMHO for what its worth. :D
 
S & W 625 .45 Auto Rim in the gun,
.45 ACP with Full Moon cllips as well as
.45 AR HKS SPeedloaders

Marlin 1894 is a winter project to
convert to .45 Auto RIm - a 15 shooter....
 
I would be surprised if you gained any weight savings with a New Vaquero .357 over an "old" Vaquero in .45 Colt.
Click to expand...

Yes, but there should be quite a savings in bulk ???

I really wish Ruger would make something like a "Super Single Six" in .357/38. They made it in .32 mag for a while - how hard could it be to make it for a slightly larger and more widely available cartridge???

The .357 is such a handy dandy cartridge, but there is no need to carry around a .45 sized single action. Why isn't there a .357 single action sized about like a K frame ? :rolleyes:
 
Maybe some of the Texans can back me up on this but anytime I had the opportunity to meet a Texas Ranger in person they personified a modern day cowboy more than anything else I can imagine. Seems they like the 1911, custom grips, a couple of extra mags , carried in custom and personalized leather. Very impressive, the hardware seems right for a modern day cowboy, hell the gun itself is only a 100 year old design. I know it is part of their mystique but it appears to be very functional as well. Impressive to a Yankee Lawman like myself. Bill
 
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