Strange question at the VA Hospital.

As a vet working at the VA I strongly encourage all firearm owning vets when asked this question to reply "its inappropriate of you to ask me questions concerning my second ammendment rights" and leave it right there.

EVIL said:

...just another reason to dislike the VA (not like I need another...)

I would have said: "do you own any firearms?"

I am glad I have insurance so I don't have to use the VA...why are they always located in the worst part of town + they are plastered w/ gunbusters signage...sigh > what a trashy way for our govt. to treat our nation's heroes...

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Lets clarify this:

It's V.A. - the Veterans Administration, and not

VA. , as in my home state, with some of the best 2A laws in the CONUS... I have seen other posts here, regarding the new PTSD regulations, and mental health regulations being passed. Possibly it's related to these? I'm for all those who gave the 'none ya' response - when their injuries are physical, and not mental... apparently there have been issues with guys returning home, and being denied the right to buy that new 1911 or M4, because they've been placed on some type of mental health list... do a search for 'PTSD' in the forums, and it comes right up...

good luck!

-tc

Answer a question with a question(s).

Why is this question being asked?

How will this information be used?

Does HIPA protect this personal information?

If this information is released outside the doctor/patient relationship to whom will this information be given?

The standard response should be "These types of question are not relevant to purpose of this doctors visit."

You are not a statistic and any information regarding non-medical matters is between you, God and the US Constitution.

As a physician I will tell you that there is no sinister monitoring by the gov't, political agenda or anything like that behind the gun ownership question.

Med Schools, when teaching Primary care physicians, teach health risk assessment. Thus questions like smoking, motorcycle use, seat belt use and, yes, gun presence in the home, since if the weapon gets into the wrong little hands, it can lead to catastrophes that none of us want.

They are just doing their job by doing a thorough assessment of the risks to your health in your environment.

I don't think there is anything sinister going on here.

OK Doc, I'll bite, how does gun ownership impact the patient being asked the question of gun ownership during a doctors visit? Why don't you ask if the patient owns a car? Or rides a bike, snowboards? Cars kill plenty of folks each year. Kids get killed riding bikes. Folks get injured while snowboarding. Do you travel by commercial passenger aircraft one or more times a year? How about if their neighbor smokes and the patient lives in an apartment complex? What about living in clod climates, folks die from exposure to the cold. Living in hot climates, folks die from heat stroke? How about this, does your kid stay at home when you have the flu? Your kid could catch his death from your flu.

Sinister it may not be, but overly intrusive it is. I do not and will not relinquish my privacy just because a doctor is "looking out for my good health". Stick to I smoke too much, drink too much, don't brush my teeth as regularly as I should. Lift with my legs and not my back. Watch my weight and exercise more.

Any doctor that thinks it is OK to ask any questions beyond my own medical needs is being intrusive and THAT IS NOT DOING YOUR JOB. The government has told you to collect this non-medical information. What do you think they are doing with this information that is tied to my name, address, phone number, place of work? They just enter a couple of tick marks in a computer statistics model and then toss the data away?

How about this, as a doctor you need to assess the health risks associated with living in high crime areas. Advise your patients to move to a safer environment. If they choose to stay in a unsafe environment you can report them as a danger to themselves physically and mentally.

Paranoid? Maybe, but I know what our federal government is doing and has done to erode our liberties and anyone who does not accept this fact is either naive or working for the man.

Or I could have said....Doc, nun-ya.

Dejavu...do you ask if he patient has any 5 gallon buckets in the house?? How about plastic dry cleaner clothing bags?
The question crosses boundry limits and is NOT ethical.
Joe

I think that when I went in several months ago I saw that question on the PC in the exam room also. If I remember correctly, I believe that the female Doc skipped over the question. It was a surprise because at first glance, she looked like the typical gov employee Lib.
If I were asked, my response would be "None of your business" .

This is only one reason I won't file with the VA.

AFS

Dejavu said:

As a physician I will tell you that there is no sinister monitoring by the gov't, political agenda or anything like that behind the gun ownership question.

Med Schools, when teaching Primary care physicians, teach health risk assessment. Thus questions like smoking, motorcycle use, seat belt use and, yes, gun presence in the home, since if the weapon gets into the wrong little hands, it can lead to catastrophes that none of us want.

They are just doing their job by doing a thorough assessment of the risks to your health in your environment.

I don't think there is anything sinister going on here.

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Could this be a FBI guy or a BATF guy trolling the site for "domestic extremists"?

As an ex-Marine paratrooper with 4 yrs of service (Vietnam era), qualifying as Expert on the range each time, who grew up with guns, continues to own several, shoots often and well, I am, slightly, taken aback by your vitriol. Not surprised, I guess, but saddened that I would be attacked for trying to, in a friendly and informative way, explain why that question even comes up at a doctors visit.

Are you paranoid? I don't know, since you seem to be more informed about gov't programs sneaking into your doctor/patient relationship than I, but I agree that we need to be watchful of our present leaders in Washington. The part about me being an ATF agent, however idiotic and mis-informed, is entertaining at the very least.

Earlier I posted about this question "post #15" and stated than no I never had been. Withthat said they do ask me if I wear a seat belt, if I smoke or use tobacco in any form, drink alcohol, ect. it just a way of addressing risks.

BTW the care is excellant.

My kid's pede asks this every time we go. I just reply, "I don't answer questions about my constitutionally protected rights. I will not tell you if I have guns or a printing press." He doesn't like me much. I refuse to answer questions such as those and I refuse to just accept his word about my kid. I am one of those parents that asks questions about side effects and long term consequences. It always gets him flustered.

I gave my personal doctor the same answer when he asked. We had a good laugh and he marked "no" on the questionare.

Oh, and I forgot in my last post, I am going to show my internet ignorance, but I don't recognize the expression "nun-ya". Can someone tell me if I just got insulted or what. Thanks

jcwit said:

Earlier I posted about this question "post #15" and stated than no I never had been. Withthat said they do ask me if I wear a seat belt, if I smoke or use tobacco in any form, drink alcohol, ect. it just a way of addressing risks.

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Why does it matter if you own a gun or wear a seat belt? What long term effects do they have on your health? They have no real effect on your health unless you have an accident. Then they will be treating that particular injury right then.

Tobacco and alcohol have long term health effects. Those are understandable questions. The others are irrelevant. Untill somebody can tell me why they need that information, I refuse to answer.

When my wife was pregnant they gave out a questionare for both parents to fill out. It asked if my parent's had smoked, drank alcohol, ever had a physical fight, and a bunch of other questions. Some of the stuff had no direct impact on the kid. A lot of the questions were an attempt to profile the parent's and grand parent's for a risk assessment. As I read the questions my wife said, "it sounds like they are looking for people to turn in to CPS before the child is born."

Sure enough the doctor said the point of the questionare was to flag certain children. That way, at the first signs of anything strange, they could identify and report parents that may be harming their child. Harming includes any bruises, small scratches, unusual weight, more than one cold or flu during the season, and a myriad of other things. Of course these are danger signs only if you answered certain questions in the affirmative. One of those questions is, where you spanked as a child? So, if your parents spanked you, they believe you are more likely to abuse or neglect your child.

My point is, from what I've seen all of this info goes in to a database. The database is so that they can categorize you, and turn you over for mental evaluation (or some other form of intervention) when you violate some predetermined rule of normalcy.

Dejavu said:

As an ex-Marine paratrooper with 4 yrs of service (Vietnam era), qualifying as Expert on the range each time, who grew up with guns, continues to own several, shoots often and well, I am, slightly, taken aback by your vitriol. Not surprised, I guess, but saddened that I would be attacked for trying to, in a friendly and informative way, explain why that question even comes up at a doctors visit.

Are you paranoid? I don't know, since you seem to be more informed about gov't programs sneaking into your doctor/patient relationship than I, but I agree that we need to be watchful of our present leaders in Washington. The part about me being an ATF agent, however idiotic and mis-informed, is entertaining at the very least.

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Sorry Doc, not buying the premise that you hold. Just cuz a doctor asks the question, however innocent, does not make it ethical even with government sanction. What would be the harm in asking a patients financial health to ensure that any potential mental afflictions do not lead to physical heath issues. Just cuz it is on the list of questions does not make it ethical to ask the question. The question of gun ownership is not a medical issue. The very idea that you would even consider, without basis, that a patient owning a gun is a potential detriment to his or anyone's health is what should take you aback. It obviously does not.

How about just skipping the question during the visit as one of those "none of my business" questions. My previous comments, the vitriolic ones, you still have not answered the questions I have posed about cars, biking, smokers next door. You are under no obligation to answer but that says a lot in and of its self. Deflection is a useful tool in debate and is used quite frequently by politicians in Washington.

The FBI and BAFT comments were Ad Hominem....sorry about that. Won't happen again.

"nun-ya"...none of your business. As far as I know it is not a Interwebs thing, my gradmama was telling me that back when I was wee one. Always liked and use it on my kids.

Dejavu said:

Oh, and I forgot in my last post, I am going to show my internet ignorance, but I don't recognize the expression "nun-ya". Can someone tell me if I just got insulted or what. Thanks

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At a guess, I'd say not.... probably some thing like "nun-ya-bidness", as in what one can say to the doctor who asks.

There's usually a nice big grey area between alert attention to gun grabbing and paranoid hysteria. I think the fuss about these sorts of questions fall into the hysteria end of things myself. They ask all sorts of dumb questions at the doctor's office, trying to jam you into one pigeon hole or another. Could be part of a study, could be risk assessment, etc, etc... why such a big deal, just don't answer that one. If they don't like that, go to another doc.

A.H. Fox said:

Could this be a FBI guy or a BATF guy trolling the site for "domestic extremists"?

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Naaah, they got their hands full out at the airport, no time to waste hanging around the internet

There's usually a nice big grey area between alert attention to gun grabbing and paranoid hysteria. I think the fuss about these sorts of questions fall into the hysteria end of things myself. They ask all sorts of dumb questions at the doctor's office, trying to jam you into one pigeon hole or another. Could be part of a study, could be risk assessment, etc, etc... why such a big deal, just don't answer that one. If they don't like that, go to another doc.

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Absolutly!

jdowney said:

Naaah, they got their hands full out at the airport, no time to waste hanging around the internet

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Nice one:

It's the government, they have plenty of bureaucrats, especially in the past couple of years, to do just that, waste their time and our money hanging around the Interwebs.

There's a reason they're asking these questions. If you're being treated for stress related tendencies you could also lose a CCW if you have one.

never mind

The problem with tendencies is, as with the Grand Jury/ ham sandwich saying, a competent doctor could declare a ham sandwich mentally unfit to carry a CCW. And the state would follow along pretty as you please.

I just had a conversation about this with my wife. I'm not vet, but my boys just had their yearly physical. She took them so I asked if the Dr. had inquired if there were any guns in the house, and she said no, he didn't ask. My middle son has his today, so I asked her to decline to answer the question if it is asked. Like those before me have said, I agree that it is not any of their business. Her comment was; " well if I don't answer, then it seems like I have something to hide." Of course, my response was "That is the way they want you to feel, and you have no obligation to answer that question."

Thoughts?

Matt

VA doc (Chinese female) asked me one of those kinds of questions once.
With as little emotion as possible I replied "N. Y. F. B." giving the nurse a little chuckle and getting a perplexed look from the doc. Nurse whispered something in the ear. Doc wrote "no response" in the answer space and no more questions of a "life style" nature were asked. The doc and I now have an understanding

I got 40 years generally positive experience with the VA.
Never been asked that particular question.
Sometimes they will ask how are you feeling and include depression or somesuch.
Sometimes not.

If you have problems with a doc, go to the patient advocates office and they will set things straight.

Presently, you only run into gun ownership issues if you have been declared or judged incompetent or have been detained ina mental health unit.
It's kind of funny with all the guys trying to get on the PTSD bus who get annoyed at the idea their firearms rights might be jeapordised by claiming a mental health condition.

I don't give the VA a 100%, but I go there for most all my treatment and will continue to do so.

Dunno about Marines, but there is no such thing as an ex-Paratrooper.

Airborne!