Mosin Experts Needed. M91 Remington 1917

I am not an expert, but...


Check for overall originality and absence of modifications...

Barrel original to the Action, Stock original to both.

Stock unaltered.


Condition of the Bore through-out, and, of the Chamber particularly...

Check the Headspace.

Lube and make sure Magazine Follower is in good order and not hanging up or dirty.


Oil 'er up...and, Head to the Range!


I would love to have one of those Remington Nagants.

I hope yours turns out to be a really nice one!

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Check the bolt face for the Ring O' Pitting from corrosive ammo and less then dilligent cleaning. If its there I would doubt the barrel is happy.

Some mosins will have a dark ring that cant be cleaned, Dont worry too hard about that, Pitting is the issue.

Where's the pics

I am not very keen on the Remington mosins. I do collect Finnish Mosins though.
Just from what your saying, it sounds like you have a Remington M1891. Doesnt sound like a dragoon to me though. The front sight may have been upgraded when the 91/30 came into production. Thats just specualtion though

From what i understand, the term "dragoon" is used incorrectly for a lot of the mosin rifles. Be aware of this when someone tells you that they have a dragoon.

These may assist you better than i can:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/default.asp

http://7.62x54r.net/


Those two pages are chocked full of info and should keep you busy for a day or two. If you like mosins, stay away from the Finns............like my friend said : "Now that i own a Finn mosin, all my Russian ones feel fake." YMMV.

PS: please post pics of the Remington!

might try posting this in the firearms research section, cosmoline is probably the guy you want to hear from on this one

Remington did not make Dragoons, you have an 1891 rifle. Front sight should be a plain blade, globe is not correct.
Rear sight leaf should be relatively easy to find.
Another call for pics!

IRC, the Remington is substantially more valuable than the Russian ones.

I'm also thrown by the "dragoon" reference. I've never seen a US made dragoon rifle. We need pics on this one for sure.

It's a low enough serial number to have made the trip over. What is interesting is that there are no import marks. That means it made it over to Russia, was rebuilt at some point and made it back to the US prior to the import law change in 1968. This rifle could have been a bring back from a number of wars WWII through early NAM...who knows. Pretty neat.

My first reaction is it's all mixed up. It has the Type 2 rear sight of the M91 of the US production period, but the later globe front of the 91/30 and what looks to be a dragoon or 91/30 stock only with a swivel in the rear. And the barrel appears to be several inches too long to be a dragoon. If you can get a measurement of the barrel that might help confirm it. The Dragoon barrel should be 28.8 inches, while the M91 barrel is 31.6 inches.

I don't see any stamps that scream out at me, but then again there could be something under the wood.

The swivel bothers me. They do not resemble the squared off Finnish swivels I've seen many times. And they're not like the Austrian swivels because they have a screw through the slot rather than just being simple bent wire. It bears more looking into.

I think we can rule out a transitional experiment but that doesn't rule out the possibility that it's a capture. I'd suggest a close examination of the metal out of the wood for any unusual stamps or marks.


Does the other side of your rear swivel look like this, with nail-type head and no slot to screw?

I am by no means an expert, but I think your barrel and receiver were made in the US and your stock was replaced (or, possible added before being issued) and made in Russia at the Izhevsk arsenal.

What I think happened (purely speculation mind you) is that either the barrel or the receiver, or both, were made by Remington and then sent to Russia where they were inspected by folks at the Izhevsk arsenal and stamped (accounting for the stamp on the receiver) and stocked (accounting for the stamp on the nose cap), then issued to the soldiers.

Of course, it's 4am and I may be wrong, not that either of those two necessarily have any bearing on one another or not.

Nice rifle, I love the unique ones.

ETA: I think the swivel sling attachment is an add on, easily made and fitted by anyone who knows basic metal working, field expedient looking too. Exactly what I would expect for someone who wanted to attach a sling to their rifle that was non-standard equipment (the swivel looks like a snap hook retention swivel used on things like horse saddles and such). Adds to the story of the weapon IMO. That is if any of my story is, in fact, true.

I think the swivel sling attachment is an add on, easily made and fitted by anyone who knows basic metal working, field expedient looking too

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Possibly, but to my eye it appears to have weathered and aged with the rifle. It does not look like a recent post-import add on or a garage job. But if it's the product of some arsenal, which one? And what became of the front one? The only Russian M91's to have swivels were very early models and this one is very late or transitional. I would be tempted to say it's a recent combination of a Finnified M91/30 stock with an M91 barrel and receiver, but that doesn't look like any Finnish swivel I've seen.

One possibility is the stock is from some captured Mosin in the WWII era that was then slapped together with an M91. But we'd need to find some capture mark on the main rifle body and link it to the as-yet-unidentified swivel.

Another possibility is that someone much more recently has merged the two components for reasons which remain mysterious. You should do a close inspection of the wood-to-metal fit to see if the M91-30/dragoon stock was modified to fit the M91 barrel. It looks like there's a gap towards the nose? It's not a typical Bubba job at all, but it's possible someone busted the M91 stock and just needed a replacement. That doesn't explain the swivel, though.

The stock has a large circle and a smaller circle that appear to be an outline of a cartooche however they can't be made out. The large one looks like the outside was a wreath with something

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That sounds like a Soviet mark:

Back in the 80's I was lucky enough to examine hundreds of Finnish rifles.

It is the rare Finnish rifle that does not have SA stamped on it, however, it is my recollection that I saw examples that did not.

Perhaps they were captured in the late 30's when the Finns had their backs against the wall by the Russian invasion, and they had to get weapons to the front.

Fittings varied a lot between rifles, sling attachments, hardware, etc. I believe that the rifles were being reconditioned by a bunch of different small shops. Consistent by "pattern" by not identical by model.

It is very possible that your rifle is finnish, but a Commie Wreath on the stock would sure place it as a war capture rifle.

There have been a lot of these in the US since WW1.

The US took possession of Czarist arms after Russia went Commie. These were also sold through through various channels in the US.

Try to find a Westinghouse. Those are also rare.

Had an all original Westinghouse, high 90's finish, in my hands once, at Harry Beckworth's in Micanopy Florida. Wish I had the money for it, but did'nt.

I have a New England Westinghouse M91 rifle. It's a mixture of arsenal parts.

It's been through at least 3 arsenals but still has the factory stock. Maybe not to the receiver/barrel that it's on but the stock has the factory stamp on it.

Mine has the SA stamp on the receiver with the arshins x'd out.