a good match for me.

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homedefender

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Hi everybody,

I am 28 years old, am 165 pounds, and have just spent a year in the hospital getting rid of cancer, am disabled, and on blood thinner for a blood clot, and cannot even afford to be beaten up anymore for fear of blood loss.

I now find myself in a rough neighborhood, far from the country-side that has always been my home.

In the short time that I have been here, My riding lawnmower has been stolen, a few of the people next to me has had break-ins, and crazy people roam the streets talking to themselves.

I am not being dramatic. I don't care about my property so much, but I do care about my family. This will be a in home, self defense application.

I have had some experience with firearms being from the country, but only smaller calibers like 38, 38 special, 22, and a small amount of 9mm, and rifles like SKS, and 8mm long rifle.

I feel I need something bigger, but there is no range nearby, and no one I know has an example of the firearms I am looking at.

specifically, I am looking at 45.ACP, and 12 Ga.

I have been looking through your excellent forums for some time now, and have learned a lot. So now I would like to give the details about me, and see if I have a good plan.

My wrists are weakened due to my illness, and my arm strength is diminished, that will get better with time, but I need to do something now.

I have heard you say repeatedly that the 45 acp is a low recoil round, and is one of the most efficient rounds available for what I need it for, also, the 12 ga is similar in this way.

but having no real experience with these, and with my current health, do you believe that I should choose a smaller caliber, or will the 45 be manageable for me.

I cannot afford a gas operated 12, and the pump is supposed to be brutal.

I am not afraid of firearms, I grew up with them around me, and enjoy shooting the calibers I stated very much. it is purely a issue of physical weakness.

I am looking at a firestar model 45. and a mossberg 870. Either way, I will practice many times a week, and the cost of ammo is not an issue.

What is an issue is recoil, as I feel like an old woman at times still. I have read over your posts on 45 caliber low recoil ammo, and most aren't impressed. so for this discussion, let's assume I use the 185-200 grain ammo, in the most inoffensive load.

I cannot test them before I buy, but don't want that to be a factor in choosing a capible firearm. I will overcome if physically able.

if I get the heavy firestar, and a moderately powerful hollow point ammo, do you think my poor wrists will be ok?

or should I get a mossberg 12? will that be ok for my poor shoulder?

or should I choose a smaller caliber? AS A NOTE, I would feel safer with the 45.

also, if one of these solutions seem best to you, what ammo would you recommend for me?

and how do these calibers I have experience with compare with my choices in terms of recoil?

you may be having fun here, but I believe that this info helps save lives in some way, keep it up highroad.

oh, and as a side note, I cannot blame you if I find I can't do it, and I will simply get another caliber. so don't worry about it.
HD
 
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I may not be the best person to give advice, but I think you may want to forgo the .45ACP and 12 ga. for now. .45 is still big recoil, lessened by a heavy gun. I see both as being "problems" for weak wrists. I would not trust it until you know for sure you feel safe handling it.

12 ga. might also be a bit tough on you physically. Maybe consider a smaller cal shotgun? And I would highly suggest NOT getting a tactical/pistol grip shotgun. A 12 ga. especially would be brutal (it was for me, and I am not a twig).

A .38SP or .357 mag might do better for now. And maybe a smaller shotgun.

That's my 2 cents, hope it helps.
 
Gunchick has it right

You may be putting to much faith in all the bigger is better talk. I would go with what you know. Specifically, I would go with the 9mm in this case. What it lacks in power it makes up for in volume. Recoil is mild and practice ammo is cheap. There are several good guns that can be had for under $400 and a few under $300. I would specifically at used Glocks, Berreta 92 trade-ins and Taurus 92's. There are many others that people will reccomend, I am sure.

As to the shotgun,don't be fooled here either. Twenty guage guns operate at higher pressures and that equals more recoil. If you can find an old 870 Wing-master or 870 police, they will have the smoothest actions. Add a Knoxx Copstock and it will reduce the recoil incredibly. Use Winchester featherlites for practice and it keep it loaded with 00 beck or something like it for HD.
 
Home defender;

I like the way you think. Good choices.

I've had damage to my shooting wrist and severely weakened arms and shoulders efore that lasted quite a while. Good advice above about the used Glock. the 9mm is soft shooting and light weight. If you're set on a .45 give the Springfield XD-45 a close look. It's big but light and easily the softest shooting .45 I've ever shot, and I've shot a lot of them.

The Remington 870 or a Mossberg are hands down the best home defense shotgun deals on the market. I personally opt for the 870 so you can shoot the Aquila short rounds in it. Soft shooting but plenty powerful for home defense. 00 buck rules but don't discount #1 or #4 buck.

I assume from your post that any mess you might end up in will be fairly short range. No need for the 3" mags that can deliver a load of buckshot out to 100yds. Close in, 15yds or so a good #4 field load would be a good choice for your situation. Controlled recoil 12ga rounds are commonly available, poke around. Check out the shotgun forum here. Tons of good people and great information.

Then again.... the other side of that coin is to practice with the low power stuff and keep the heavy hitters loaded up at home. You might get some damage and certainly some pain if you have to use it but putting the bad guy down quick can save you some grief. :what:

Look into this link. They offer a good balance between good power and controlled recoil. They do have limitations, like everything else. But it's a possible option for you.

mini shot shells:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=162922

Stay tuned in. You're going to get a lot of good advice in here.

By the way.... I've had some personal experience with what you're dealing with. If you're local in the Puget Sound area, I'm willing to offer up the use of some of my recommendations for you to try out and see what fits you best. Heck, I'll even pony up the ammo. :D
 
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Get you a Hipoint 9mm or .45acp Carbine. Accurate and has a great recoil reducing buttstock.
Short and easy to handle. Has a rail for a light or laser if you want. Has an intimidation factor of 9.5.
 
Now that Blackrock has brought up the idea

of a carbine in a handgun caliber, I will have to wholeheartedly agree, with all but the choice of brand. I am not a fan of Hi-point, though I realize that many are. Another affordable choice in a carbine would be the Kel-Tec sub 2000 in 9mm or 40. You could team it up with a Glock 22/23 in 40 or 19/17 in 9mm. This would give you a rifle/handgun combo that accepts the same mags. Both calibers are very mild when shooting from a carbine. The carbine would be a good alternative to the shotgun and a good compliment to the handgun. A lever action in a handgun caliber is also good though I like the idea of having loaded mags ready to go in the semi-auto.
 
If I were you, I would do my best to audition several guns before you buy. Many indoor ranges have rentals available. You may have to go to several places to try out all the models in all the calibers you're interested in, but it would be worth it. In my experience, most people working the counter at gun shops and ranges aren't as friendly or helpful as most people here at THR, but don't discount them all together.

Also, look for gun clubs in your area, or ranges that host competitions like 3-gun, IPSC, IDPA, etc. The people who attend these events are some of the most enthusiastic that you'll find, and they may be able to help you audition some firearms and help you with your purchase.

My $.02: My first choice for home defense would be a shotgun. If you look hard enough, you should be able to find a semi auto on your budget. There are a few Rem. 1100s on gunbroker now for a little over $400. Second choice would be a pistol caliber carbine, like the Hi-Point already mentioned, or a Kel-Tec sub2000 which also goes for a little over $400. And if you still want a handgun, I like the Taurus 92 suggestion. A big, heavy 9mm will be the easiest to handle recoil-wise.
 
In a shotgun and at home d ranges the .410 is not to be overlooked. The hd rounds made for the Judge will work very well out to 40 yards or so and they are not something I would want to face. Hand gun the 9 in almost any config. is pretty easy to shoot a little snappy in smaller compacts but in anything approaching full size are easy to handle and the hi cap makes up for caliber.
 
My .02(may be worth less):

As others have stated before, don't cast aside the 9mm so quickly.

A used Beretta 92FS or CZ75 are both very dependable, and both have

15 round mags at@400$...

Bear in mind 45 ACP "low recoil" is in comparison to magnum pistol or rifle rounds.

I'm a big guy, and I only find .45 ACP tolerable because of my size and because I enjoy larger calibers.
 
Well if your hands and wrists are weakened then that should rule out nearly all semi-automatic pistols. Stovepipe jams or failures to eject are a consistant problem if a pistol is "limp wristed". If you want a handgun, then get a revolver, do not even consider a pistol until your hands and wrists are strong enough to get the gun to cycle / shoot correctly. Ruger GP 100 .357 Magnum shooting .38 Specials is a soft shooting hard enough hitting weapon. Mossberg also makes a Home Defender .410 shot gun, it should get the job done and it has that sound that scares the h*** out of an intruder, racking a shell into the chamber. I personally have sold most of my revolvers, and much prefer pistols but in your case I cannot recommend a pistol. You can get a revolver in .45 ACP, if that is the caliber you want.
 
I opt for the 9MM in your case. It's much more manageable than a .45, but it's still a sizable bullet with enough punch to send even the worst thugs home.

I would probably recommend a Glock for you. Lightweight, good recoil, and very well balanced. I also think a Glock's stock grips would feel just fine in a weakened grip, as they are rather large and soft.

Pay heed to other's warnings about cycling the action, though. Although I doubt a Glock will often lock up on you, I would recommend testing it out first to see if you can manage the slide.

A pump shotgun should be a fine choice as well, although I'm hesitant to confirm if it would be suitable for your current state. You should look at all guns in person to determine.

That being said, the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 is pretty much the best shotgun around. I am from the Mossberg camp personally, but either manufacture will be a good choice.

I would avoid the 590A1 and other advanced models because of the weight. The 500 Persuader might work for you. I do not normally recommend pistol grips, but it should be considered as it will make the gun smaller and easier to pick up and handle, as well as slightly lighter. This can be fired from the hip which will be a big relief for the arms, at the expense of some accuracy.

Another added benefit of the pump shotgun is that it does not require much exertion to be gripped effectively. If you get a model with a forend strap this will help out even more.

Look at this:
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=3758

Good luck on the rest of your recovery. I hope the worst of it is over for you. You sound like a real man to have come so far.

And get back to the country as soon as you can. The city is trash. You're not missing anything.
 
Before buying anything, I would recommend that you find an instructor that can work with disabilities. Try contacting your state wildlife agency. Most states have programs for hunting for the disabled which are usually headed by the kind of instructor could benefit you. And they are usually volunteers, more than willing to help.
 
PM me if you are in the SE Texas area. I will let you try anything of mine including 9mm 38/357, 45, and 12 guage.

My wife has tendonitus(sp?)in her wrists. Her pistol of choice is an all steel .357 yo soak up recoil. We use watered down .38 special for practice, and heavy .357 for home defense. Her choice is her (read formerly mine) Ruger Security Six with a 4" barrel. Wrist injury or no, recol will not be felt if you fire while bad guy is trying to hit you in the head with a pipe.

Best of luck and stay safe.

Mot
 
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I dont have much experience but you could look at a saiga 12 or 20. They are gas operated shotguns based of the AK-47 design and can be had for around $350 if I'm not mistaken. They come with a regular rifle stock so no pistol grip, easier on your wrists. In close a pistol is more maneuverable but underpowered compared to a shotgun. Just my 2 cents throwing out an idea.
 
Bless your heart my friend, I can only imagine what you are experiencing.

Like other's right now I would forgo the .45 ACP, (most require 100's of
rounds too make reliable); and I'm afraid a 12 gauge shotgun would prove
far too powerful for you to control effectively.

OTOH, a smaller, lighter "QUALITY" 9m/m of higher capacity should serve you well~!


FWIW: Get well soon, my friend~!
 
Considering your circumstances, I might consider a .22LR semi-auto rifle firing top quality .22 rounds. I am thinking something such as the:
Smith and Wesson M&P 15-22: http://www.impactguns.com/store/022188139358.html
OR
German Sport Guns GSG AK-47. http://www.impactguns.com/store/892756002458.html

Mag capacities are 25 rounds for the M&P15-22 and 24 rounds for the AK. No, these are not the best defensive arms out there but they could save your wrists some stress and you could use any extra funds to practice good marksmanship.
 
Obviously you're OK with the idea of a longarm. Why not a lightweight AR? Negligible recoil, high capacity, and plenty of ammo choices.
 
I would agree with the couple of mentions of 9mm. That would probably be my first choice in your situation. I so not want to open a can of worms here, but the difference in .45 ACP and 9MM is really not that big as far as stopping power if you have the right load. If you going to use hard ball ammo then the difference is considerable. If you have good defense ammo, then what little difference in stopping power will be made up by the extra rounds you will have at your disposal. But, as was mentioned in an earlier post, there is the danger of miss-feeds if you limp wrist some autos. You will want to practice and make sure it is reliable. I would recommend considering a Springfield XD in 9mm. I do not think you would have any problem with being reliable. It would be great if you knew someone or found a gun shop that would let you shoot a few different guns. A good .38 special would do the job just fine as well. Nice to have a few more rounds, but it would better to have 6 rounds you can count on than 100 behind a jam. Revolvers and reliability are pretty much synonymous. I would not feel under gunned with a .38
A 12 gauge is indeed a great defense gun, but if you are in a weakened condition, the recoil could be a problem. I would definitely stay away from anything that does not have a full stock. A 12 gauge in a "street sweeper" configuration, (or whatever you call it) with only pistol grips will flat destroy your wrists with any kind of a heavy buckshot load. (They are rough with good wrists.)
The most important thing is to get something you can shoot comfortably and accurately. You would be better off with .22 than a .357 or .45 if that is all you can be proficient with.
My 2 cents for what ever they are worth.
 
I would highly suggest the Browning Gold Fusion gas operated semi auto 12ga, if you deem it to be the right price. I have one and it shoots anything 3" or smaller perfectly everytime. The 3" magnum deer slugs don't recoil anything at all in this gun either. It weighs in right at 7lbs, and you can find a barrel that from IIRC 24" to 30". I have a 26" barrel on mine.

There's one on Gunbroker right now for $650:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=213937594
 
My question is, will the recoil or the wieght of the gun bother you more. If it's recoil, might I suggest a 9mm all steel double stack or a 9mm 1911.

My own experience with the S&W 5906 [9mm]and the 4506 [45acp]gives you fire power and less recoil. They won't break the bank either.
I've actually tried to limp wrist these 2 and make them malfunction with NO LUCK.
Same goes for my M&P9, I can't make it jamb.

The carbine sounds like a good idea to me also. If you want a shotgun, you don't have to shoot #00 buck out of it. Get some hunting loads with #4 shot.

God bless you brother. I've seen first hand the battle with cancer with my father and my wife's family. Get well soon and stay safe.
Sounds like they let all the nuts out of the mental ward.
 
First,

thank you all for the invaluable advice, and equally, for the kind words. It is difficult for me, considering I used to be a strapping lad.

So, if it's OK, I would like to try to work toward an outcome. The general feeling is that the 9mm can deliver the effect I am looking for, and still be manageable, and is the largest diameter bullet I can handle at this point. I want to pick one up.

and also, that the 410 is not a bad gun for the range that I would be faced with.

and also, something I have not considered, the carbine. could be a viable option for me.

I will look beyond the 45acp for now until I get better.

here is a bit more detail, I am on disability income, and can really only spend about $300-400, maybe 500 on a solution, and this is really more than I have. I noticed the advice on the Saiga shotguns, and am aware that they operate like the Ak-47, and the action reduces felt recoil. this gun interests me, because when I am well again, I could hunt with it.

I live in Oklahoma, and have plenty of room to practice, but the number of ranges in my area is zero. and I have small hands, compacts fit me best for pistols.

I will need to have all of the money up front, and I have used everything I had just living day to day over the last year, so if you could factor this in, and perhaps if it's not too much trouble, provide advise on where I can get the most bang for my buck, (pun intended), and be something like you suggested that will be good for me,that would be most appreciated.

I am open to all of these solutions, and and am leaning toward the 9mm, but the saiga 410, or 20 idea might work also, if as mild as you said. also, can I get a nice carbine for my price range?

I know it's not really enough to get some of these fine arms you proposed, but it's the best I can muster sadly. If you could point me in the right direction, or know a dealer, or just have one you no longer want, I would be most grateful.

and to answer your question Sauer grapes, chemo has made my nerves endings sensitive in a way that is difficult to explain, when I hit my hands too hard on something for instance, it's like stubbing your toe when your foot is asleep. a strange feeling. the issue is recoil shock. (get checked often you do not want to wait like I did.)

thanks again everyone, a truly great community, you should all be proud of it, and I am truly grateful for you helping me along.

and if you would like to give more info, or advice, please do, I have found the links to be good ones, and I feel like I'm in good hands.

HD:)
 
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