.308 vs .300 Win Mag for long range accuracy?

Nothing new about a .300 magnum for long range unless it has been rediscovered since I shot last.
Most LR shooters had dropped it in favor of 6.5s that kicked them around less over a long course of fire. Some are sneaking back up to 7mm for very high BC bullets.

Those pics of the Idaho palouse are awesome!!!

I know that there are longer ranges back east. My point was simply to say that someone shouldn't make fun of people that dare to conceive shooting out to 1000 yards. I know a few times out here I settled my rifle on a flock of pheasants about 1200 yards out (I think -my range finder barely reaches 1000). It was good practice for me to do my best to hold the crosshairs as still as possible and attempt to track their movement. IT IS HARD. My heartbeat would make the gun move as far as several feet off the bird. Don't worry, I didn't try to shoot them.

It's tough to reconcile a portable hunting rifle designed to take game at 0-400 yards with an accurized rifle that will be competitive at 1,000 yards. The closest you will get is likely a tactical-style rifle with a high-quality barrel. Customer builds for these types of guns are popular - GA Precision, Surgeon, and APA are all quite well-known for their work. You can also get a factory long-range rig designed to balance hunting and precision needs from McMillan, Weatherby, Remington's Custom Shop, Lazzeroni and a few others. Either way, it won't be cheap. The Remington 700 Sendero is probably the best value option for what you are looking for; I've considered one myself in the past. It's a blisteringly accurate gun and won't cost you much more than a grand. Don't skimp on optics though....

Check out www.longrangehunting.com or www.snipershide.com for some in-depth information.

If you have a rifle that will be accurate at 1,000 yards, what is difficult in taking game with the same rifle at less than half that grange?

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In one word: weight. I have several 1,000 yard competition rifles, and the idea of carrying a 14 -16 lb. rifle in the field simply does not appeal to me. I have a separate rifle for hunting purposes.

Don

If the budget for the rifle is $800-$900 not counting optics, and weight is a secondary consideration for the most part (if the rifle hits 35 lbs, I might reconsider heh), other than the Tikka T3 and Remington 700 variants, what else is out there that's accurate at 1,000 yards in that price range?

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Individual rifles are accurate or not accurate, not a particular make or model. You may get an accurate Tikka or Remington, or you may not. The FN SPR's are good LR rifles, although they are a bit more expensive. The primary determinate of accuracy is the barrel. There is a reason why most LR shooters go with custom barrels as opposed to factory barrels.

Don

What's the combined cost of an action, stock, trigger and custom barrel? Can such a thing be made well for $800-$900?

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Short answer: No. Barrel alone is $300 - $350. Then you need to have the barrel threaded and chambered, and installed. And, IMHO, installing a custom barrel without having the action trued is penny wise and pound foolish. So, you are talking about $800 just for installing a custom barrel properly. Then, you need the action, and I have always done this by buying a used rifle and selling off all the unwanted parts. This can bring the cost down to about $200 - $250 for the action. A good McMillan or Manners stock can cost you big $$$, and then you really should have it pillar bedded. Good triggers are not exactly cheap; I paid about $200 for my Jewell. Figure on $1500 - $2000, and that doesn't include the scope, rings, or 20MOA base. It gets expensive REAL quick.

Don

Consider buying a used rifle. Very few used commercial rifles have a lot of rounds down them, and you can perhaps pick something up that has a good scope on it farely cheap.

Don

Snipers in the field don't keep a reloading station set up back in the wire. They shoot boxed commercial made rounds provided on contract to specifications. When a new lot number comes out, they go through a complete resighting to assure they know the actual ballistics, not the old numbers from the last lot.

What happens on a competition range is like Vegas, it stays on the range.

Mr. Smith,
When I started shooting LR, I started with a Savage tac 20" in .308. The rifle was not and still is not a true 1000m shooter, but it shot much better than I did at that range. Since then, my skills have grown greatly and I've added some real shooters to my collection. If I had started out with a $2k+ rifle, I don't think I would have seen the difference on paper. There are a lot of things going on between the rifle and target that impact accuracy more than the difference between a 1moa and 0.3moa rifle. If I were to start over and needed a rifle, I would get a used 700 police chambered in a rd that does not have too much bite on the back end; then I'ld mount a quality (+/- $400) scope, one piece 20moa rail and a good set of rings. A good (mid $ range) set up should outshoot you for a pretty long while. Also, that 20" Savage that I've had for 10+ yrs is my 'go to' rifle for deer, crows, yotes and just about anything else that needs shooting out to about 500 yds.
IMVHO, after you put a couple thousand rds down range, you'll probably be shooting as good as the mid price setup.

mark consider this. buy you a good savage, or howa or something that all the bells and whistles(barrel, stock, trigger) are available for. start shooting your factory 500.00+/- rifle. as you get better add a trigger, and then try to out shoot the gun. as your skills progress and so does the distance upgrade your rifle. I think the best advice I can give is to look up John Burns dvd set called "how to shoot beyond belief". most everything you need to know about caliber and rifle are covered in there. he will show you how to pillar and bed the stock float the barrel and do the proper trigger work to shoot 1000yrds. It's a very technical dvd. it's not for entertainment purposes. It's alike a school lesson. you'll walk away from it much more educated in rifles. in the end he takes the rifle that they worked on which is a out of the box 700 in 243, and has a 14 year old kid shoot 100 yrds. They replaced no parts on the rifle only tuned it. the kids had never shot taht far before and did surprisingly well

Any particular round you'd suggest? What is the 700 police usually chambered in? What does a used one run?

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As far as cal selection, some of the other guys here could give better info. I shoot all 30 cal stuff like .308 and 300wm. I think most of the LR comp shooters are more into the 6mm and 6.5mm stuff.

The last 700 police I bought was around $750 new. A used rifle will be just as good, provided the previous owner took care of it and didn't clean it with a uncoated rod (or from the wrong end). Savage is a good choice also. It should shoot as good or better than the 700, but trigger choices are more limited if you decide to swap it out.

Most out of the box heavy barrel Remingtons and Savages will shoot around 1moa and that's plenty good enough to learn LR shooting. You don't have to buy the most expensive base, scope and rings, but you'll be wasting your money to buy the cheepest. A quality (not most expensive) setup will give you the needed platform to learn on.

"The Tikka T3 I've been looking at comes chambered in the following - any particular ones that would be suitable for both long range accuracy and larger game hunting at closer ranges?

260 Rem 8”
7mm-08 Rem 9,5”
308 Win 11"
270 WSM 10”
T3 300 WSM 11”

6.5 x 55 SE 8”
270 Win 10”
30-06 Sprg 11"

300 Win Mag 11""

Any of those would meet your hog/deer and long range target options reasonably well. As was said above, a rifle light enough to hunt with isn't the best choice for target shooting. My Tikka SL in 30-06 shoots fantastic, but at <7lb scoped it's not the most pleasant to shoot off the bench for long periods.

If you buy a Tikka T3 Varmint or Sako85 Varmint you dont need to upgrade the Barrel or Trigger as they are as good or even better then alot of match grade triggers and barrels.
I like the "You may get a accurate Tikka you may not"
The "Truth" is the Tikka has a 3 shot sub MOA guarantee with "any factory ammo" and the Sako has a 5 shot sub MOA guarantee with "any factory ammo" when you start using match grade ammo or handloads that accuracy will be a truck load better. Sako makes Tikka and they take that Accuracy Guarantee very serious as there biggest selling point is there accuracy. If you get a Sako or Tikka all you should need is a stock for it and a scope.
Also IMHO the 260rem is superior to the 300wm and 308win for long range shooting, here is a good article that explains why.
http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case-for-260-remington/
Good Luck with it all

We have a pretty big F-Class club where I live and a lot of the guys have the full blown custom built F-Class guns and the Sako 85's and Tikka T3's that have just been put in a custom stock and nothing else always mix it up with the best shooters and we have some of the best shooters around. You don't need all this match grade stuff like barrels and triggers if you get a Sako or Tikka as like I said IMHO it is as good as any match grade stuff.

I can believe that out of the higher end Tikkas. Mine is their Superlight in 30-06. I'm not typically a very good group shooter off the bench, and managed two groups right at 1/2" with the new Barnes 180grn load. The other factory ammo on hand it shot to .8". That was with my below average bench skills off cheap sandbags. I suspect there's more potential there. It's already more than I need from a 7lb 06, so I'll be focused on shooting from field positions here on out.

If you buy a Tikka T3 Varmint or Sako85 Varmint you dont need to upgrade the Barrel or Trigger as they are as good or even better then alot of match grade triggers and barrels.

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A bit of hyperbole, don't you think, mate?

Don

USSR said:

A bit of hyperbole, don't you think, mate?

Don

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Well Don mate the Sako's and Tikka's are not your Rugers, Remingtons and Howa's
How many Sako and Tikka barrels have you looked down with a bore scope and who makes a better trigger? Timney LOL

The Sako uses a hammer forged barrel and it is pretty dam good they also use that "same" barrel on the Tikka and the Sako trigger is as good as any match grade trigger unless you want to go super light. The Tikka's trigger is just a little different then the Sako but it is a real goer. How many people buy a Sako or Tikka and change out the trigger because it no good? None

There's an old guy at our club that wins most of the F-Class comps and he is one of the best shooters in Australia, He has the custom guns for F-Class but only gets them out for the big comps most of the time he just uses a Sako. He also kicks butt in the Bench Rest comps and he's got the 6mmBR's and 22PPC's custom guns that he shots at big comps but most of the time he uses a Sako 222 and except for the stock its standard and he wins alot of comps with them. I asked him why he doesn't use his custom guns all the time and he even said these are just as good as the custom guns and he's scores are about the same with the Sako's but he likes the Sako's because he said they are a little more of a challange to shoot.

How many Sako and Tikka barrels have you looked down with a bore scope...

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Had a Sako, the key word here is HAD! Never could get it to shoot good. Finally took a muzzle gage to it and found out why - the muzzle on it was .003" over what a .30-06 should be. Didn't like it to begin with (the action was the hardest opening bolt action I have ever seen), so I promptly sold it and got a real rifle.

Don

for that purpose the .308 win will do just fine. Just get a good barrel and good bullets and work up a good load. the Magnum would be overkill, more expensive and will wear barrels, powders and your shoulder much faster.