Please tell me the real story

The only possible answer is: Maybe

There are just too many variables.

What barrel length is the .380? What bullet weights are we using for each round? What powder load for each round?

If you look at comparable company ammunition, the .38 is more powerful than the .380

Hornady:
.38 weight: 110gr muzzle energy: 249 ftlbs Velocity: 1010 fps
.380 weight 90gr muzzle energy: 200 ftlbs Velocity: 1000 fps


But: If you play mixmaster...

Magsafe .380 +p
weight: 60grs Muzzle energy: 300ftlbs Velocity 1500fps


So yeah, a .380 can beat a .38 special... if you compare dissimilar loads.

I have found this link useful from SAAMI - look SAAMI standards


http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm

Hope this helps

sorry dang server lag this morning

Comparing hot loads for each from the same maker - Buffalo Bore:

.38 Special +P 158 gr LSWCHP, S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1162 fps (474 ft. lbs.)
.380 Auto +P Ammo - 100 gr. Hardcast F.N., Walther PPK-3.5 inch 1149fps (297 ft. lbs.)

I used Buffalo Bore because that's what I carry. Hope this helps.

Don't look at case size for any relationship to the amount of powder it holds. The 38 uses less than 50% of it's capacity.

Why is it to hard to believe that a pair of chamberings could have overlapping energy possibilities? Variables abound, barrel length isn't even measured the same in revolving and autoloading pistols, there are " +P " loads for almost everything, projectile weight and design vary greatly ... etc etc

Given modern materials, the original sizing of cases can be surprisingly full of empty space, .38spl is one of those instances.

Also, muzzle energy figures are worthless by themselves. For example, a 38 Special 158gr SWCHP at 800FPS is alot better for self defense than a 90gr 380 HP at 1000 despite similar muzzle energy figures. The 38 will penetrate 14" to the 380's 6.

How about one of the basic formula? Mass x the square of velocity. Even if you assumed equal velocities comparing 85-95 grains versus a typical 125-158 grains......

You can not rely fully on paper ballistics. Nor, can you but your faith totally in pine boards, wet phone books or waterjugs as units of penetration.

The FBI at one time was considering 18" of penetration in ballistic gelatin as meaningful.

An instructor of mine was not particularly hung up about bullet expansion, he in fact recommended FMJ's for use in .380 which he considered minimal.

To quote him is I think useful,"Shot placement is king. Bullet penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin".

You have to. A 380 FMJ penetrates only 18" in jello.

.38 Special +P 158 gr LSWCHP, S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1162 fps (474 ft. lbs.)
.380 Auto +P Ammo - 100 gr. Hardcast F.N., Walther PPK-3.5 inch 1149fps (297 ft. lbs.)

Click to expand...

Give me the (significantly) heavier bullet EVERY time, in a small handgun.

I have no interest in .380's of any kind. YMMV of course.

I also agree that "it depends" is the best answer. The lines have been blurred between the .38/380/9mm/.40 with the addition of ammo from Buffalo Bore, Corbon, Hornaday, etc, but the .38/357 usually has the advantage over the .380 with the longer barrel it's fired from.

LD45

Is that for real?

Click to expand...

Short answer: NO

I have both a 38 snub and a 380 auto I use for concealed carry. The 38+P is substantially stronger.

Basically no, the .380 is not up to the potential of a 38 special. It doesn't require anything special to get major +P performance out of a 38 special. I currently load 38 special with Longshot or HS6 and am getting 1300 fps with a 110 gr. XTP no problem. That kind of velocity from a .380 ACP would likely require me to load beyond published data to even get close, and that would be with a 90 gr. or lighter projectile too, which means less energy.

Not sure whether to comment or just break out the popcorn... I guess I'll venture something helpful into your OP.

I think you will find the range of the 38sp higher overall then that of the .380 for all of the following.

Energy
Momentum
Penetration

since you asking about a specific revolver, why not also a specific 380. You might want to go a step further and mention specific rounds, perhaps a Speer GDHP from both??
hmmmm....

Speer lists it's 125gr .38 spl +P from a 4-V bbl at 248 ftlbs at the muzzle
Speer lists it's 135gr .38 spl +P from a 2-V bbl at 222 ftlbs at the muzzle <-short barrel ammo
Speer lists it's 90gr 380 Auto from a 3.75" bbl at 216 ftlbs at the muzzle

from www.speer-ammo.com

They don't list a "short barrel" 380 but then most 380s are pocket guns and have short barrels. As you can see, there isn't enough difference here to worry about on the energy side, on the momentum side the 380 drops off due to the lower weight.

I think this is a revolver vs auto argument more than "which is more powerful".

Shooting a high pressure 380 round such as Buffalo Bore will produce spectacular results in a 380 acp. Standard 380 does not hit anywhere near as hard as 38 special from similar barrel length firearms.

My impression from shooting tons of iron targets (spinning and otherwise) is that 38 special always hits harder than 380 EXCEPT when shooting high pressure ammo such as Buffalo Bore in the 380.

There are many great brands of 380 ammo which will give superb results such as Corbon and Buffalo Bore to name 2.

1st reply out of the gate nailed it -
"What barrel length is the .380? What bullet weights are we using for each round? What powder load for each round?"

"A 380 FMJ penetrates only 18" in jello."
yeah, but 'only' will do... make mine hardball, please, I don't much believe in hollow points for either 38sp out of snubbies, nor for 380acp out of any length auto barrel
gimme more barrel and at least +P for any JHP bullet - magnum tends to go well with JHP (and at least 4" of barrel, preferably 5"-6'" worth)

not all +P in either choice is created equal, not all 380s are blowbacks, not all 380s are pocket derringers, etc, etc.
and not all bullet styles are equally effective out of short barrels

"Shot placement is king. Bullet penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin".
that pretty much wraps it up

either will do
carry whatever best suits you, round or flat, but aim well

Mainstream 38 +P (like from Rem or Win) launches a 125 JHP at around 925 FPS from a 4" barrel. I get about 900 in my 2" guns (which is a better comparison to a 380 "pocket pistol."

A high performance 380 will use a JHP of around 90 grains and most claim 950 FPS velocity. So we are comparing a 125/900 to a 90/950.

IMO the 38 with its heavier projectile has a slight edge in power. But in reality there is no real difference. They are pretty much the same.

One reason why I don't understand the perception some have that the 38 +P is some sort of a hot load that is harmful to a good gun.

"Shot placement is king. Bullet penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin".

Many people, myself included, find it much easier to accurately place those shots with a .380 than with a .38 Special +P snub nose revolver. While the .38 might have an edge in power, if you ain't hittin' the target it's a moot point.