38 cbc

[oldfool]

just curious
too long forgotten question on "38 Special CBC" ammo
(too long forgotten, oughta' go back for another look, make sure it really was "CBC", it's probably still there, but mostly I remember "CBC")

local shop, me always looking for cheap (?) range fodder to burn thru 38/357 revolvers, things being what they are last couple of years

dropped in a few months back, and surprise !
bunch of 38 caliber ammo, 50 round boxes stacked up high... but "CBC".. what dat ???
opened a box up, really SHORT stuff, not wadcutters, RN bullet, but not 380 acp (though looked to be about same overall length as 380 acp)
too much bullet jump from cylinder to forcing cone in a 357 cylinder to suit me, whatever it was, and I don't do double barrel 38 derringers..
labeling didn't suggest 38 Colt Short, though
(although I have never seen any of that, either)

I thunk maybe the folks were just ordering up ANY ammo they could/might sell, and didn't really know what it was either
(nice honest folks... but the shop owner didn't know the difference between rimfire 22 WRF and 22 WMR either, until I explained it to him)

I think it was Magtech brand (and I know Magtech is owned by CBC "brazilia")
I know Marlin used to make a pricey 1894 CBC (CowBoyCompetition) lever action for the CAS/SASS folks in 38 sp only (not the 38/357, which I own and love)
I know some lever action carbines only take nine 38sp in the tube, not 10, and CASS/SAAS is BIG steel targets at real SHORT range (speed game), and rules limited to low power cartridges (generally black powder only)... re: bounceback off steel, you know

so...
think mebbe this stuff was made for "CAS/SASS only" ???
Googled it, but still ain't really got a clue

just curious

 

[oldfool]

ok, answered my own dumb question

here 'tis
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=511908
Magtech Sport Ammunition 38 Special Short 125 Grain Lead Round Nose Box of 50
Ballistics Information:
# Muzzle Velocity: 686 fps
# Muzzle Energy: 130 ft. lbs.
states 38 CBC SPL SHORT right on the box

reviewer said -
Very good substitute for .38 short and long colt in vintage revolvers like Colt Lightning. I am going to try it in a Colt .38 spl wadcutter autoloader for grins.

it is listed along with other low power 38 Short Colt ammo in other brands, some really weak stuff like
Muzzle Velocity: 536 fps
Energy at 100 yds: 49 ft lbs

also found at
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/34819-5.html

 

[Jim K]

Maybe I will try to get some as I have several revolvers I have not been able to use without cutting down .38 Special cases.

When the .38 Long Colt was still made, it was quite popular with female police officers because it had less recoil than the standard .38 Special. (Just FWIW, .38 Long Colt and .38 Short Colt cartridge cases are the same diameter as .38 Special and .357 Magnum, so will work in revolvers chambered for the latter two cartridges. The .38 Smith & Wesson - there is no "short" or "long" - is too large in diameter to fit .38 Special/.357 chambers.)

Jim

 

[BBrutt]

Hey, by a strike of luck I ran into this thread.

Well, even though you already pretty much answered your own question, I thought I had to chip in with some more info.

I'm no firearms expert by any chance, actually, I'm pretty much the opposite.
In fact, I'm still in the process of purchasing my first gun.

But back to your question:

In this particular I think can help you, if you don't mind reading a little story first...

CBC stands for "Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos", which translates as: "Brazilian Cartridges Company".
In the US of A, they are marketed under the brand "Magtech".

It is the SOLE ammunition manufacturer in Brazil (a huge country with nearly 200 mil people and an emerging economic player). As weird as that might be, they have total monopoly over Brazilian ammunition market. And they didn't achieve this by buying out or beating the competition, they have a government regulated monopoly, garanteed by law.

The result is TERRIBLE ammo being produced because, simply, there's no competition.
Brazilian competitive shooters/LEOs/military who want to improve marksmanship have to rely pretty much on nothing but that stuff.

After some research and contact with local shooters, this is what I've learned:
LEOs sometimes get imported stuff through seizing of illegal ammo caches from gangsters.
And competitive shooters sometimes get ahold of imported stuff through their federations (even though a lot of it being rimfire, basically .22LR).

Now back to the ammo you purchased.

First, you gotta understand, that the Magtech ammo that you guys use overthere is WAY better than, our CBC stuff.
Simply because in the USA, with so many brands for a costumer to choose from, they better make decent stuff for the price they ask, otherwise, they'll go out of business.

I believe what YOU GOT is some sort of oldie CBC training ammo originally intended for brazilian local market, that for some strange reason made it's way to the american civil market, and finally into your hands.

I mean... I think I know the reason.
Since it's a weak and short "training load" the don't mind putting it in the american market and brand it "Magtech", since they're supposed to be just"training" loads and not perform really well anyway.

From what I've learned, that kind of ammo was (and still is) extensively used by brazilian armed security companies, to train their personnel (there are HUNDREDS of those here).

IT IS NOT commonly used by civilian shooters, who either buy regular CBC .38 SPL ammo, or used handloads (as it's much more common).

A very high percentage of brazilian shooters reload theyr own ammo because of the legal restrictions regarding the purchase of ammunition, and the quality of CBC stuff.
So, CBC is universally loathed by brazilian shooters, EVEN when it is virtually the only kind of factory made ammo available.

Well, I'm sorry if I bothered you with too much unwanted info, it's just that I never iss the chance to complain about Brazil's draconian gun laws whenever I get the chance.

Hope I could help.

EDIT: Sorry if I left any typos out, and/or some sentences sounds funny, I'm too sleepy to write in English properly.

 

[oldfool]

thanks BBRUTT
PM sent
(I didn't buy any of this stuff, just got curious about what it was)

 

[ReloaderFred]

oldfool,

You posted a lot of misinformation about SASS and Cowboy Shooting in general. You really should research a subject before you post information as fact.

Marlin still makes the 1894CB rifle. Here is the link: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/Cowboy/1894_45Colt.asp Available in 45 Colt, 357 Mag./38 Spl. and 44 Mag./44 Spl. My wife and I both shoot Marlin 1894C's, and they will hold 10 rounds of .38 Special ammunition, but only 9 rounds of .357 Magnum ammunition in the magazines.

A small percentage of SASS participants shoot black powder. It's rare at our matches to see more than about 10 out of 80 or 90 shooters using black powder or black powder substitutes. Light loads are necessary to keep from destroying the steel targets and to cut down on lead splatter, which can be a hazard to shooters and spectators.

There are also two basic kinds of SASS shooters. Some are competitors and some are reenactors. Yes, competitors are concerned with speed, but reenactors aren't, but mostly SASS is about comradeship and having fun. It's not about training, or shooting for big prizes, because it's a game, plain and simple. And big prizes are forbidden on purpose, to keep it fun for everyone.

I apologize for high jacking the thread, but I couldn't let the misinformation stand.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[oldfool]

oldfool,

You posted a lot of misinformation about SASS and Cowboy Shooting in general. You really should research a subject before you post information as fact.

Marlin still makes the 1894CB rifle. Here is the link: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/Cowboy/1894_45Colt.asp Available in 45 Colt, 357 Mag./38 Spl. and 44 Mag./44 Spl. My wife and I both shoot Marlin 1894C's, and they will hold 10 rounds of .38 Special ammunition, but only 9 rounds of .357 Magnum ammunition in the magazines.

A small percentage of SASS participants shoot black powder. It's rare at our matches to see more than about 10 out of 80 or 90 shooters using black powder or black powder substitutes. Light loads are necessary to keep from destroying the steel targets and to cut down on lead splatter, which can be a hazard to shooters and spectators.

There are also two basic kinds of SASS shooters. Some are competitors and some are reenactors. Yes, competitors are concerned with speed, but reenactors aren't, but mostly SASS is about comradeship and having fun. It's not about training, or shooting for big prizes, because it's a game, plain and simple. And big prizes are forbidden on purpose, to keep it fun for everyone.

I apologize for high jacking the thread, but I couldn't let the misinformation stand.

Hope this helps.

Fred

yes Marlin still makes the 1894C and/or CB in 38/357
I own one of those, 1894C
as well as a LSI (Rossi) Puma M92
and wished I owned a Browning M92 in 38/357, but alas, never will

the 1894 CBC was a different model, 38 special ONLY, not 38/357 don't think they make them anymore, but probably still can be found for the right price... "action tuned right out of the box"
not all lever action rifles have same length barrels, not all have same length tube magazines, not all are used and/or popular in CAS/SASS

No, not all CAS/SASS events are black powder... but some CAS/SASS events are black powder ONLY, and some ammunition companies specialize in loaded black powder ammo... and some of those folks on the TV screen sure leave a lot of smoke hangin' in the air (and shoot a lot faster than I can)
and there is a lot of ammo made for CAS/SASS that is not black powder

and it looks like a lot of fun !

sorry about all the "misinformation"
have fun