92fs or SIG 226 can't run dry?

There is no blanket answer to the question "will all guns X do Y without Z". Even guns of the exact same model from the same maker will have slight variances. Some models will simply be more prone to stoppages without lube. So if you have 100 92Fs and 100 Glock 17s and shoot 100 rounds through each without lube there I think it a safe bet the Glocks will demonsrate significantly more reliability. Individual anecodotal experiences with one gun do not accurately represent how the model performs on the whole.

Talk about a thread going no where

What does the OP mean by "all metal" gun? Is aluminum or alloy not a metal?

As I posted previously if you use a good lube on the slide and rails it is not going any where. If there is any doubt use a light grease if it makes you feel better, Any carry gun should be field strip and checked over of dirt, lint, run you finger over the lubed areas, it's still there.

The Lone Haranguer said:

Any pistol needs proper lubrication, but your friend makes it sound much worse than it really is. This doesn't happen unless the action totally rusted shut or something. It will certainly "run" for a shorter time unlubricated.

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No, I'm pretty sure he didn't exaggerate; I was watching. No rust, just didn't want to run dry.

I have seen some issued guns that could have been this bad, in a terrible environment with little or no care. But they were guns that were so worn as to technically be unserviceable, and shouldn't be issued at all. They had more problems than just that. This was due to institutional neglect, not any regular use any shooter will put it through in a lifetime.

aerostar said:

JustinJ, my point exactly. The guy may have an unlucky 92FS, that's all. Using that experience and make a judgement on other similar gun with the same assertion is absurd.

Rule3, "all metal" is opposite to "plastic" gun. So yes, alloy are considered as "metal". Aluminum frame in general are not very friendly with steel slides. However, with different coating and surface treatment, some are very friendly with steel. The steel on steel are a good choice for sliding.

I have no doubt of what grease/oil can do to guns, I am just not accepting an assertion that 92FS or Sig 226 can't run dry. And I want to know if I am alone on this one. Seems that we are all in the same page.

Thanks guys.

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A lot of plastic or polymer guns have metal guides. It makes no difference if the frame is space age plastic, Guns can run extremely dry. There is still enough lube on the slide or rail even if you do not see it. Teflon and the other synthetics are still there. I do not think it wise to deliberate run them with nothing but a little goes a long way. That's why I mention the NANO in my first reply. It is a polymer gun with a internal metal frame so it's still metal on metal.The FNP and FNX are other examples.

Yes, I realize that. I have both Sigs, Glock, HK whatever. The point is about the lube "evaporating"
If they ride on full length slides or partial (Glock HK) the lube is still there metal to metal. It doesn't matter.

I just pulled a Glock and a Sig that has not been shoot for probably a year and the lube is still there,

I would shoot them today for a full range session and not do anything before hand. Again, it depends entirely on what lube is used. These have Mil Com TW 25 on them but any of the new synthetics will work.

I do notice that CLP, in particular, seems to "run" downhill. If I put my lightly lubed 226 on a paper towel for say, two months, the "down" side of the outside of the gun will collect a fair amount of CLP and the paper towel will be a little bit wet. The "up" side will be dry.

aerostar said:

What I don't understand is what this guy claimed: A 92FS, when cleaned but not oiled, it turns to be a bolt action handgun. one shot, one hand assist for recycle. His point is that all metal handgun are not good for self defense because, with his assertion, you wouldn't sure if the gun has enough lube left, hence prone to jam. I think this is Bull.

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Why people make certain claims is pretty much a function of what they believe to be true, what they've been told is true and what they've experienced.

I had a friend (now deceased from natural causes) that believed a .25 Auto was sufficient for bear. No amount of talk could convince him he needed a more powerful gun.

People believe what they're going to believe and changing a mind is nowhere near as simple as changing a tire.

Metal rubbing against metal will last a very long time unless it's just grinding or one part has a very rough surface. Slide parts and rails are made to be smooth so often they will not ever wear even if it's a super cheap gun.

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Metal on metal will always wear with or without lube if friction is present. How long it will take is determined by many variables but it will happen. The type of metal, finish, tolerance, temps, etc will all influence wear rates. Bearings are a perfect example. They are designed to roll and be as smooth as possilble but run them dry and you'll see just how quickly they wear down.

I want all my guns to outlast me so at the range i run them on the wet side. For concealed carry i use lube more sparingly. I think if a gun can run dry it is a testament to its overall reliablity as any machine will work if you put enough lube in it. However, for the sake of durablity i always use lube.

I agree with JustinJ, a firearm should be ABLE to run dry, but just because it can doesn't mean you should. My Beretta 92FS can run dry with robust ammo, but start to run too dry with weak UMC range ammo, coupled with a newish recoil spring, and it starts to short-cycle a bit and jam. Now, this only happened once or twice before I realized that

(a) Remington UMC is underpowered junk ammo
(b) My 92FS likes to run a bit on the wet side

I have tested it pretty dry, with SD ammo, and it is fine. It is just the combination of dry/weak ammo/stiff spring that it doesn't like. And of course lube will lead to a long and healthy life for it so I try to dab an extra drop or two every now and then anyway.

I carried a Beretta 92 for 4 years and it often go dry. It didn't seem to effect the gun at all as it aways went bang when I pulled the trigger. I like the gun for the most part so much I went out and bought a Taurus PT 92 which is basically the same gun with some improvements though not as good a finish. I've put about 4000 rounds of everything from target to +P SD stuff through it and never a single failure. I've been using Break Free CLP and tetra grease for years now on all my guns with no problems even the "plastic guns". I do clean my guns after every session at the range (probably monthly for each gun) as I hit the range one or two times a week with 1 gun so I rotate them. CLP and Tetra seem to work well together especially with tetra on the slide rails.

Lot of factors in play: exactly what metals are we talking about, temperature, humidity, the lubricant used, etc... I think he was to sound more authoritative than he actually was.

aerostar, I've seen similar threads on this and other forums asking the same question of AR-15s. The responses were similar as well.

My take on this (and it's just my opinion) is that a firearm should run be able to run dry, if all of the parts are correctly fitted (for a "working" firearm). I qualified that last statement because I've had, and seen, many custom race guns that were fitted tight for accuracy and needed that extra little bit of slickness offered by lube to make them reliable.

As a general matter, as I said, I believe that a "working" firearm should be able to run dry. The question is, how long will it run without lube. It seems to me that lube accomplishes a few different things. First, it is a rust preventative. Even stainless firearms will rust if the environment is harsh enough.

The second reason becomes more important the more you shoot the firearm since it's last cleaning. As we all know, the more you shoot a gun, the dirtier it gets. One of the things that lube does is to provide a medium by which crud, dirt, etc. can be displaced, so that things don't get jammed up.

The last thing that lube does is, well, provide lubrication. The fact of the matter is that if you rub two things together, sooner or later, there's going to be wear. Lubrication reduces the amount of wear that takes place.

One thing that I do not use on my firearms, especially in places that are subjected to both a lot of friction and crud build up, is grease. Although grease lubricates and provides for protection against corrosion, it isn't much good at displacing crud. It stays where you put it.

I mean think about. Say you take a hand full of grease and mix it with a hand full of sand. What do you get? For all practical purposes, you have a lapping/polishing compound that will take off steel. I know, because I've done exactly that to make a form of rough polishing compound.

You guys that ride dirt bikes and four wheelers in should might know what I'm talking about with bearings.

Grease doesn't dry in months

I use Lubriplate on the locking block, rails and barrel ribs in my 92FS, and on the rails, hammer and locking ribs of my 1911.

The same stuff I use on the M1A and M1 Garand. Never had it disappear.

His point is that all metal handgun are not good for self defense because, with his assertion, you wouldn't sure if the gun has enough lube left, hence prone to jam.

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Mayby I should start my next business running a mod shop installing dip sticks on handguns.