any people of color?

bikerdoc, wouldn't it be cool if somebody like the OP with about 10 or 20 people and let him say you going to serve me now.

Happens to me all the time here in Cleveland, I am Native American but look caucassion. I have been called everything from the N***** word on down. Ignorance is just that ignorant, the black people I work with and I get a laugh out of it everytime someone calls me something like that. You cant fix stupid!

Anyone who would judge people by the color of their skin isn't someone I want to get to know.

I am of Scot/Irish and Cherokee heritage, and I've never figured out how my skin color and thin facial hair qualify me as an angry alcoholic. It has not (to date) affected my RKBA in any way.

I am a person of color (white) and am very afraid of a hate crime. Thing is that if a white man is victimized by a minority, it doesn't count as a hate crime, does it?

Oh, and yes, I carry.

I am white. My fiancee is black. We have gotten some looks and comments (under their breath) from a few people. Those people are bigots and cowards, so we really don't pay them much mind. You do quickly see who is prejudice when in our position. We have had more trouble in Mississippi than NW AR, but again, those bigots are too afraid to say or act out directly.

She does like to shoot. She doesn't care what any particular gun is called or what have you, but she likes to shoot them (if I am reloading mags, of course). She also either doesn't notice or pretends not to notice when there is a new addition to the collection, so she is a keeper. And she has the most beautiful smile I've ever seen...

You know the worst part of all of this is it is prob going to get a lot worse in the future.

I often feel alone, I am talked down to, or ignored at gun shows and in gun shops. I have also only been to a gun range once, where the range officer didn't watch me suspiciously closer than every one else I have even been yelled at and asked to leave. I feel I constantly have to prove that I am "one of the good ones" which is just as insulting as overt racism.

Dose anyone have similar experiences?

Click to expand...

Yep, I am white and get discriminate against all the time. Being old gets you discriinated against also.

You are not unique in this, every race that has come to the US has been discriminated against through out the country's history, Irish, Italians, Jews, Catholics, Amish, Quakers, Native Americans, Polish, Germans, Russians, Japanise, Chinises, Mexicans, Mormans, Smokers, Non-Smokers, Drifters, Policemen, Bikers, Homeless, Un-employed, sorry have I left anyone out, just fill in the blank.

Do we need to defend ourselves against hate crimes, YES. What was the color of the 12 that died in CO at the theater there? Or at that college in DeKalub Illinois or the high school in MO or the college in VA.

Sorry if you feel discriminated against, try being black for a while and see what discrimination is all about. Or an Arib female or a Mexican illegal here in this country.

But in all fairness and with respect, lose the beard and turban (unless you are a member of the Assassins guild) and see if you are still treated the same way.

Just a suggestion.
Jim

Quoted by a teacher of mine long ago...thought you would all enjoy it.

And you're calling me colored??

When I was born, I was black.
When I grow up, I'm black.
When I go in sun, I'm black.
When I'm scared, I'm black.
When I'm sick, I'm black.
And when I die, I'm still black.

And you white people.
When you're born, you're pink.
When you grow up, you're white.
When you go in sun, you're red.
When you're cold, you're blue.
When you're scared, you're yellow.
When you're sick, you're green
And when you die, you're grey…

And you're calling me colored??

CmdrSlander said:

Also, to my last point, look up a man named Massad Ayoob. He is of Arab descent and is one of the foremost experts on defensive handgunnery. He is well respected throughout the community.

Click to expand...

This. In the whole of America its hard to find someone with more firearms wisdom than Massad Ayoob. If anyone gives you crap about being of Iranian/Arabic descent, remind them who's been teaching us yanks self-defense for thirty years.

But in all fairness and with respect, lose the beard and turban (unless you are a member of the Assassins guild) and see if you are still treated the same way.

Click to expand...

Sorry, not very helpful.

I cannot speak for all members, so I will speak for myself.

For some of us (for me) this forum is the current expression of the wish to achieve in reality the freedom from ALL forms of oppression that WE BELIEVE our founding fathers envisioned.

A moment ago I PM'ed a man who (like me) has a native American heritage. It takes a great deal of intellectual committment for any people to follow the lofty ideals set forth in the Declaration of Independence (we hold these truths to be self evident....), during the periods of turmoil and crisis that have plagued mankind for time eternal, not every man will hold with such lofty ideals.

The American experiment continues in it's messy, imperfect ways and the true believers still exist. It comes down to philosophy, is mankind perfectable? This unanswered question is the drama that no man posting here knows the answer to. You will find humanity of ALL stripes here. Including the true believeres in "all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights;among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".

I have no magic answer or solution to current troubles. I strip away confusion when it comes in favor of these words.

I think racism is MORE about a persons behavior that confirms stereotypes than actual skin color.

Scenario. If a black person has a stereotype of a white person from the south, and he sees a group of white 20 year old men in a beat up pickup, with stereotypical clothing, talk, walk, then he's going to believe they conform to his stereotype and 'fear them' more than he would probably fear a group of 20 year old white men in suits and ties.

Sorry, not very helpful.

Click to expand...

That I don't understand!. The OP is complaining that he is treated different because of his apperance. He can change that by adhearing to a dress code that would make him look more like everyone else, but he choses not to. He was born and raised here in the US, he should know better. In my part of the country if you dress and look like a gangbanger you'r treated like a gangbanger.

He has the right to carry no matter how he dresses or how light or dark his skin is, to protect himself, just don't complain about it, that was my point.

Jim

The OP is complaining that he is treated different because of his apperance. He can change that by adhearing to a dress code that would make him look more like everyone else, but he choses not to.

Click to expand...

But that's the point. We DON'T have a uniform. We DON'T have a requirement to shave and we DON'T have a requirement to act like everyone else. That's the point of this exercise of liberty.
We do absolutely not have a state religion, nor do we have a state language. And any claims to the contrary here are simply put false advertisement. The United States of America does NOT have a requirement to act like some perceived moral majority to be a good citizen and to expect equal treatment.

And frankly any notion that someone "ought to" act a certain way to be a "proper" citizen sound very, very victorian to this import american, at least.

p35 said:

Once, early in our relationship, my wife took me to a nightclub in Honolulu where I was the only white guy among about a thousand Asian-Americans (she's ethnically Japanese). Locals are the nicest people in the world, and they were more than friendly to me, but it still felt pretty weird. I think she enjoyed making me see what it felt like to be a minority.

One time I was out at the beach and a bunch of rednecks were driving up and down with Confederate flags the size of king bed sheets flying from their trucks. In our group we had me, another white guy, my wife, a Malaysian Chinese guy, and IIRC my first mixed race son. I made sure the High Power was loaded and within reach but out of sight. So yeah, I have carried for fear of hate crimes.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry but if the locals are hella nice, and more than friendly why on earth would you still feel "pretty weird". There's absolutely no reason for you to feel weird, if you do then that's something in your own head, or in your own insecurities.

Same thing with the "Rednecks" driving up and down the beach. Why they gotta be Rednecks? Your just playing into the stereotypes and that's never helpful.

Hammerhead6814 said:

This. In the whole of America its hard to find someone with more firearms wisdom than Massad Ayoob. If anyone gives you crap about being of Iranian/Arabic descent, remind them who's been teaching us yanks self-defense for thirty years.

Click to expand...

Haha yes, and there's also Sun Tzu.

But that's the point. We DON'T have a uniform. We DON'T have a requirement to shave and we DON'T have a requirement to act like everyone else. That's the point of this exercise of liberty.

Click to expand...

By the way Welcome to the US, glad to have you here.

What we have is social acceptance, that is what requires us to dress in a certain way and shave each day. When you went to school, your parents dressed you just like the other kids, if they didn't then you were the one that the bullys picked on.

If you want to be accepted then you dressed the same (not saying you have to) and did the same things your peers did (like playing golf, I hate that game) or shoot the same type of rifles your buddy's do. Me I like to be a little different but not that different, still have to get along with the people around me.

Just the way the world works.
Jim

Sorry if you feel discriminated against, try being black for a while and see what discrimination is all about. or a Mexican illegal here in this country.

Click to expand...

How is illegal Mexicans being sent back where they came from discrimination? It's simply dealing with criminals.

Yeah I hate golf and you should see the looks I get when I tell my friends (?) that I hate golf. I am being serious! They are like, what, you don't play golf? What are you, immature or uncultured? (They don't say that but they are on the verge of saying it). Of course, the golf course is about as much wilderness as they have ever experienced. In a business setting, everyone assumes I play golf and are surprised I don't and I have never felt like I wanted to succumb to the peer pressure to play the game, partly because I find it a bit boring and partly because it's extremely expensive (probably a case or two of ammo worth, each time, at least). No offense to anyone here who loves golf. It's just not for me. Having said that, have I missed some business leads because I did not play golf with the old boys? Maybe. But it comes to a point where you have to decide just how much you want others to dictate how you spend your hours in this short life on Earth.

I don't judge anyone because of the color of their skin alone. But I do judge based upon actions and behavior. The way one chooses to dress tells me a lot about them. That will never change. You can't change the color of your skin, but you can "fit in" by the way you present yourself if you choose to. If you want to have an appearance that is not normal for the place you live, don't be surprised if you don't fit in.

<Nushif's Wife here>

In response to your sig rhodco...

"Democracy is two wolves and one lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is one well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

Apparently, you do not understand your own view point. I am a white female, in grad school. I am not stupid, I have had straight A's my whole life. I have tattoos, piercings in my nose, lips and eyebrows; and my hair is pink and purple. I understand that this puts people off...

HOWEVER... according to your sig, I am the well-armed lamb. I am saying to you, and the other conformists who believe that skin color or gender mean you have equal rights --- ONLY if you have hair or clothing that matches YOUR idea of the norm --- that we have the FREEDOM to do so, to dress and look as we want, and as GOD MADE US (black, arab, jewish, female, dwarfish, etc.). I have the freedom, we have the freedom to do that.

IF you judge us based on that, and not as the human beings that we are, who come to you as competent, smart, armed citizens, then it is you who are not only loosing a valuable opportunity to support broader gun acceptance, but also loosing the opportunity to prove that YOU are a proponent of FREEDOM - not just democracy, but true, pure freedom.

I would take a good look at your own views before you start judging people based not on who they are, but on how they dress/look.

<Nushif here again>

So, reading what she posted, here's an observation for you, specifically rhodco is that you're not judging people by the color of their skin, but rather by how they emulate what you perceive as wealthy white people?
While I applaud you for looking beyond the issue of skin color, dare I challenge you now to look beyond the polo shirt and the slacks? Because ultimately this *freedom* of expression shouldn't be a freedom tethered by how much you won't find a job or won't be able to stay in "polite society."

A slight tangent that, actually, illustrates a point:

I've often wondered, what if all of us in the world discovered that we were threatened by an outer -- a power from outer space, from another planet? Wouldn't we all of a sudden find that we didn't have any differences between us at all, we were all human beings, citizens of the world, and wouldn't we come together to fight that particular threat?

--- Ronald Wilson Reagan, 40th President of the United States

(He did not, of course, mention which caliber to use, but anyway...)

not just democracy, but true, pure freedom.

Click to expand...

Oppssss, you came to the wrong country, this is not a Democracy it is a Republic with representive government not one person one vote.

True pure freedom is "chaos", you are garrentteed "life, liberty and the persuit of happyness", no where are you garrentteed freedom.

Please reference the "Declaration of Independence" and the "United States of America Constitution"


Jim