"shorter" bbl .40 s&w load

For lighter recoil and accurate target loads especially for short barrel pistols, I would recommend the use of W231/HP-38/Unique and faster burning powders using mid-to-high range load data.

I also shoot short barreled Glock 27 and I have used Bullseye, Clays, Titegroup, Promo/Red Dot, Greet Dot, W231/HP-38, Unique, Universal, HS-6, WSF and AutoComp for 40S&W and while Bullseye/Titegroup/Promo produced accurate loads, produced too snappy/violent recoil for me to be comfortable at high range load data while Unique and slower powders required the use of high-to-near max load data to produce optimal accuracy.

While W231/HP-38 may not produce the most accurate 40S&W loads, at mid-to-high range load data, produces a compromise of accurate, milder recoil and relatively clean burning target loads and meters very consistently in most powder measures (specifically Lee Pro Auto Disk).

I have shot 140/155/165/170/180 bullet weights in 40S&W and would suggest heavier 180 gr bullet with start-to-mid range W231/HP-38 for lightest recoil yet accurate target loads. Berry's/Rainier/X-Treme 180 gr plated bullets with 3.8-4.2 gr W231/HP-38 will produce lighter than 9mm yet very accurate loads.

BTW, I use WSF primarily for full-power 40S&W loads.

For short barrels a little faster powder is needed to burn completely. Green Dot, AA#2,Sr 7625,N310,or N320 are good starters. I like the Vihtavuori powders in the .40 because they are some of the softest recoiling around. I have a messed up wrist and tested powders for this just to continue shooting the .40.They are also known to be super clean burning(and pricey though). For lead I do prefer AA#5,Sr7625, and WSF,but they are target loads.

Fast powder is not needed in short barrels to burn completely.

All pistol powders burn in the case or shortly thereafter.

Whatever powder gives the highest velocity in a long barrel also gives the highest velocity in a short barrel.

You will get more muzzle blast, and flash with slower powder.
But that isn't because it didn't all burn.

It is because it maintains bore pressure over a longer time frame, so there is more remaining pressure at the muzzle.

That is why it gives top velocity in any barrel length.

For mid-level target loads, a faster powder might be desirable, because it will burn cleaner at lower pressure.

rc.

Can I assume that this load will require a faster burning powder since it has the 3.5" bbl?

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No.

Powder is selected for the cartridge and its pressure range, not barrel length.

Most of your short barrel commecial loads feature a softer bullet for expansion at lower velocities, not faster burning powders.

Whatever gives the best velocity in a long barrel will give the best velocioty in a short barrel. The idea of a faster powder getting more velocity because of a shorter barrel is false.

thomis said:

40 s&w ... Montana Gold 165 JHP ... an accurate load, not necessarily hot.

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Montana Gold 165 gr FMJ(RNFP)/JHP with 5.0 gr of W231/HP-38 at 1.125" OAL is my match load.

Hodgdon load data:

165 gr Sierra JHP W231/HP-38 OAL 1.125" Start 4.8 gr (946 fps) 28,100 PSI - Max 5.3 gr (1001 fps) 32,500 PSI

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When doing calculations in Quickload, they give powder burn ratios. The faster powder has more burnt BEFORE leaving the barrel ,whereas slower powders need a longer barrel to get the same % of burnt ratio.Thats where that fireball comes from. While yes, the same powders (usually slower)that produces highest velocities in longer barrels will produce the same in shorter barrels. I look at the efficiency of the powder.
Anyone else with Quickload can confirm what I'm saying.

I look at the efficiency of the powder

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I agree with you, kinda. It really depends on how you define efficient. If you are happy with a certain fps that the faster powder can produce, then yes, it would be more efficient because it will use a lower charge weight. That would be financially efficient.

I dont really see, unless counting by pennies, how a round that burns more in the barrel is more efficient, if you are after velocity and it cant make the target velocity.

In the OPs case, he isnt seeking a velocity, so a faster powder would be in his best interest as it would have more rounds per lb potential.

I look at the efficiency of gasoline engines too.

But I still love driving my 390 HP / 407 Ft/Lb torque Dodge Hemi 4x4 pick-up.

Efficiency be darned!

rc

I'm so proud of you guys. The secret has gotten out and it appears as though the fast powder for short barrels myth has been busted.

Yes it has.

But only for a day or two at the most. :banghead:

rc

I feel for OP's hands/wrists.

SR40c

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OP has a compact 40 caliber pistol and I carry/shoot Glock 27 on a regular basis. Still, the 40S&W recoil, especially for a compact/subcompact, can be quite snappy and unpleasant to shoot high-to-near max loads (heck, some don't even like the recoil out of full-size 40 caliber pistols).

Does anyone have a favorite load for a compact .40 cal pistol?

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I suggested a light/mild load to OP that I usually start off those new to 40S&W (180 gr TCFP and 3.8-4.2 gr W231/HP-38). It is the softest recoiling 40S&W load I know (softer than full-power 9mm loads). Once they are comfortable with the pistol/load, I have them shoot 4.5 gr loads.

I also posted my match load as a reference load (Montana Gold 165 gr FMJ/JHP and 5.0 gr W231/HP-38) that I am comfortable shooting 300-500 rounds in a range session out of my Glock 22, but my wrists/hands would ache quite a bit more if I shot the subcompact G27.

Striker Fired...

If your Quickload program says a longer barrel is required for slower powders, get your money back. It is incorrect.


Thomis, I have a USP40(c); a three and one half inch barrel. With Winchester Ranger 165 SXT ammunition, it runs an average of 1021 f/s. My practice reloads are a plated 160 grain bullet with 5.4 grains of W231 powder and that runs average 960 f/s. Close enough for practice.

I could probably get more velocity from a slower powder and intend to try Power Pistol, but haven't done it yet. I have a bucket load of the Ranger ammo, so I see no need to try to develop such a load.

A quick perusal of the Hornady 8th loading manual indicates the slower powders give the fastest velocities.

Burn rate of powders is adjusted for bullet weight, not barrel length.

Check out the VIT 2012 on-line reloading guide, 40 S&W, VIT n340 170 JHP (no 165 JHP listed).

Vit n340 burns clean and measures great. I use it for a 9mm 124gr JHP out of a 3.6" SIG bbl. Working up the load to max, I tried lighter loads and they really shot nice.

I've been using Unique in my 40 S&W loads as my primary powder. Although I have tried Universal, Longshot, and Blue Dot, they all work fine too. Blue dot is the most fun, 9 grains behind a 165 grain Ranier is a real thumper with a big blast.....its fun!

I think once my Unique is all used up, I'm gonna go to Universal, similair performance, cleaner burn.

Striker Fired said:

When doing calculations in Quickload, they give powder burn ratios. The faster powder has more burnt BEFORE leaving the barrel ,whereas slower powders need a longer barrel to get the same % of burnt ratio.Thats where that fireball comes from. While yes, the same powders (usually slower)that produces highest velocities in longer barrels will produce the same in shorter barrels. I look at the efficiency of the powder.

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Completeness of burn has nothing to do with flash or blast. Pressure dictates both of those and the inclusion of a flash suppressant in the powder will all but eliminate the muzzle flash even from the shortest barrel. What you will find with most slow powders (within the acceptable range for a given cartridge) is that until the barrel gets silly long, you do not get 100% burn. That isn't a problem and a complete burn isn't a goal worth pursuing since it usually means that you are using too fast a powder and you gave up velocity to get it. In a short barrel, you want all the velocity that you can get in a SD load. The short barrel is already costing you some velocity, you don't want to leave more on the table just to get all the powder to burn.

Now if you want to practice with a reduced load, by all means do so. Most any of the fast powders will work for that, just like they do in longer barrels.

He isn't looking for an all out load. I don't see why it pays adding 2 or 3 grains more powder per round just to get an extra 100fps when you can use way less powder, and the type that more of it burns. If he was looking for the max speed, he would have said so. And then the slowest powder should be used. For SD/HD rounds yes then fill it full, but for just some plinking rounds why not get an extra 200 rounds out of a pound.
Beside velocity does not have anything to do with accuracy, which is what he asked for in the first place.