Anti-gun article in "Super Lawyers"

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DickP

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<Sigh... Don't suppose it'll accomplish anything, but I felt compelled to respond:>

Dear Editor:

The most recent edition of your magazine, Super Lawyers, includes an article by Mr. Jim Walsh entitled "The Peaceful Warrior - Windle Turley Fights for Gun Control." (http://www.superlawyers.com/texas/a...ior/0ca1bf2c-f7a7-40d7-91ff-112b2fc931a7.html)

I take issue with Mr. Walsh's casual statement, in the third paragraph of his article, that "Florida's so-called 'Stand Your Ground' law, which in essence gave Martin's killer, George Zimmerman, the right to shoot first and ask questions later, is being put to the test."

If this article had appeared in, say, Newsweek, I wouldn't have wasted my breath shouting into the hurricane. However, a publication such as Super Lawyers, whose audience is primarily attorneys, really ought to have some minimal standards regarding the representation of current laws as well as some basic regard for the intelligence of its readers.

The statute Mr. Walsh refers to is Florida Statute 776.013(3):

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

As Mr. Walsh has snidely characterized the above statute as an open license for murder, I would very much like to see him cover this topic in greater depth. If he is correct, Floridians are now uniquely sanctioned to arbitrarily shoot each other down - presumably, this presages an imminent national emergency and would justify a full-length article in a future issue...?

I imagine Mr. Walsh would be eager to discuss at length the well-established common-law 3-prong reasonability standard for justified use of lethal force (i.e., ability, opportunity, and jeopardy) which places a far higher burden on a citizen who kills in self-defense than that of "shoot first and ask questions later." I would also very much like to hear Mr. Walsh draw a distinction between "Stand Your Ground" jurisdictions versus "Duty to Retreat" jurisdictions vis a vis individuals' propensity to use deadly force in self-defense situations. To my knowledge, there is no statistical basis to support the author's implication that "Stand Your Ground" jurisdictions - which are rapidly becoming the majority in this country - produce more bloodthirsty citizens than those in "Duty to Retreat" jurisdictions.

Furthermore, as far as I am aware, even "Duty to Retreat" jurisdictions impose the duty to retreat only in situations where the threatened individual can be certain of retreating with complete safety to his person. In other words, it is not so very different (regarding justifiability of shootings) from "Stand Your Ground" jurisdictions. If Mr. Walsh can offer a single instance in which "Stand Your Ground" legislation protected a shooter who would otherwise have been held liable under a "Duty to Retreat" regime, I'm eager to hear it.

"Stand Your Ground" legislation is not the product of some shadowy, NRA-backed conspiracy to legitimize otherwise unjust uses of lethal force; these laws are in place to protect innocent citizens from predatory civil suits. Pro-gun civil rights activists have fought long and hard to establish these protections so that individuals forced to defend themselves with deadly force can rely upon a determination of criminal justifiability to shield themselves from subsequent frivolous civil lawsuits.

I see from Mr. Turley's website that he seeks out clients for civil cases in which individuals have suffered personal injuries due to "[firearm] design or manufacturing flaws." I'm interested to know if he has pursued lawsuits against firearm manufacturers for the non-proximate use of their products by criminals. Does Mr. Turley consider the use of a gun in a violent crime to constitute an ipso facto flaw inherent to the design and/or manufacture of the firearm involved? If so, I would have far greater respect for his position if he would be more forthcoming with it. (Mr. Turley's oblique reference to the usefulness of "strict product liability laws" in pursuing firearm lawsuits suggests that faulty manufacturing is not the true object of his ire - but perhaps I am mistaken...?)

But most shocking of all is Mr. Turley's statement that he "came upon a theory that said... you balance the utility of a product against the dangerousness of the design... So I said, 'what's the utility of a small handgun and how dangerous is it?'"

I respect individuals who argue that the Second Amendment should be repealed. They are, or course, misguided. But at least they recognize that the Second Amendment says what it says, and if it is to be nullified, it must be formally repealed. But Mr. Turley is apparently unwilling to commit to such an unpopular position. He instead advocates some sort of "cost-benefit analysis" approach to the Second Amendment. I would like to know if Mr. Turley would apply a similar calculus to the First Amendment? After all, surely a crude, amateur videotape insulting the prophet Mohammed is not worth any loss of life - shouldn't free speech be consequently restricted in this instance due to the obviously limited utility of such speech versus its great potential risk to life?

In a final bit of irony, Mr. Turley blithely references the struggles of Dr. Martin Luther King (himself a gun owner) as well as Mohandas Gandhi (who once stated that "among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the the act of depriving a whole nation of its arms as the blackest").

I welcome an educated discussion of gun-control issues in Super Lawyers - but "The Peaceful Warrior" is not it.

Kind regards,

DP
 
Outstanding response! Hits hard and fast and leaves the reader questioning the positions in the original article.....<applause>
 
Well written! I wonder what he was thinking when he said that automatic rifles need to be out of the hands of civilians because innocents will keep dying?
Well, automatic rifles are illegal unless you have the papers for them. And extremely expensive. Your average murderer that you hear about on the news did not use an automatic rifle.

Now, if he was referring to semi-automatic, I still absolutely do not see his point.
Semi-auto rifles serve many purposes. Hunting, home defense, sport shooting... And more. The thought that they should be banned stems from fear, which stems from ignorance that is created just because a lot of these rifles look like big bad military weapons.
 
Well written! I wonder what he was thinking when he said that automatic rifles need to be out of the hands of civilians because innocents will keep dying?
Well, automatic rifles are illegal unless you have the papers for them.

Police ARE CIVILIANS (unless they are Military Police). Of course, the feds keep moving to make local law enforcement more and more militarized.
 
I think the vernacular here is PWNED.

As a gamer, I have to say you nailed it!

This post is very well written. Problem is, like Dogrunner said, some people just can't be convinced.
 
DP, well done. I was going to respond to the same article, but you did so much more eloquently than I could have. I'm going to send in a complaint, however. Hopefully they will hear from many more of us.
 
Hmmm...long rant but no link to the article the O.P. is trying to rebutt.
Its in OPs post.

Unrelated, but how many here are lawyers? I've noticed that lawyers and guns seem to go together a lot (and not just those who do criminal defense) and that's in cities too.
 
“I wanted to do some things that I thought would be socially constructive and I didn’t think I was going to find that in theology, but I did think I would find it in law,”

I know the breed so very well. People who see tort law as a way of enforcing their own particular dogma, because they have no chance in the legislatures.

Thankfully they are usually older and dying off. Most lawyers in my generation and younger see legal careers as just careers rather than as a means to push some Great Cause. Some say we're cynical, but I'd rather be cynical than end up like this guy--reduced to praying to some God of Torts to make the world come around to his way of thinking.

I've noticed that lawyers and guns seem to go together a lot (and not just those who do criminal defense) and that's in cities too.

A great many are gun owners, either for sport or personal protection. But unfortunately many are also elitists who don't think little people need those rights.
 
Hey all:

Yeah, I'm a lawyer - and I don't do much criminal defense. Most of my work is appointments handling Child Protective Services cases.

Which is a potential subject for another rant. When I go to a ramshackle trailer to do a home visit and questionable relatives are milling about, I at least have the reassurance of being armed.

However, many of my colleagues don't have the same luxury. Caseworkers (unlike myself, employees of the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services) are, for a variety of reasons, far more likely than I am to encounter violent responses. And although I haven't researched DFPS regulations regarding employee regulations, I've had multiple caseworkers tell me that the Dept directly prohibits them from on-the-clock concealed carry.

As a cynic, I can't help but believe that this is just another manifestation of the "delivery guy" employment philosophy:

You're CEO of Pizza Shack. You know your employees are every bit as likely to be shot down in the line of duty as a police officer or cab driver. However, if your employee is pushed to the gravest extreme and pulls a firearm, you know his use of deadly force will be submitted to a legal factfinder who will determine that your employee's actions were either justified or unjustified. If his response was justified, you have, at best, an employee who doesn't need to be replaced. If unjustified, you have a legal $*@!storm of monumental proportions on your hands.

However, if you do everything you can as an employer to disarm your delivery guy, you minimize all of those financial risks to your enterprise. If he is murdered over the thirty dollars in his pocket, well, it won't cost any more than that for Pizza Shack to send a condolence letter to his wife. And if he secretly arms himself, well, you can just wave a copy of the company policy in the jury's face as your attorney throws him under the bus.
 
DickP,

Great letter to the editor.

Your 'delivery guy' employment philosophy especially hits home this past week as the UPS driver was gunned down in the Accent office shooting.
 
You know, only lawyers would have egos big enough to actually publish a MAGAZINE called "SUPER LAWYERS." I remember my dad subscribed to "Solid Waste" magazine. And he actually accomplished something with his life. The smaller the contribution to society, the bigger the ego. Maybe Windle Turley's cost-benefit analysis should be applied to us lawyers.
 
Cosmoline, you obviously haven't met many server administrators.

Your 'delivery guy' employment philosophy especially hits home this past week as the UPS driver was gunned down in the Accent office shooting.

I haven't been paying attention the past week, but this kind of things is what makes me hate the corporate world. Preventing a lawsuit becomes more important than protecting your employees or even the bottom line (because a lawsuit would ruin the bottom line). I worked at Albertson's before I started in IT, and the rule was that we could not interfere with a thief. The reasons are
A) they don't want to have to pay our medical bills or any of our lawsuits should the thief attack us and
B) they don't want to have to pay for a lawsuit against us if we stop the thief.

The result? People would just stare at us as they shoved steaks into their jacket and walked out the store.

(Granted, I was a 5'6, 120-pound high schooler, so I wasn't going to be stopping anyone regardless, but we did have some employees who were ex-military, and one who was going into bounty hunting, who would have been formidable "guards" to stop a thief.)
 
Reminds me of the ABA and their collective right argument. I'll buy their educational stuff, but I'll never become a member.
 
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