Camping compromise gun, animal vs. people

Alaska444 said:

Move to griz country and your opinion I am sure will change quickly.

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I think I pretty clearly wrote "black bears." We don't have brown bears here. I stated nothing about brown bears, so I have no opinion to change.

Well, to be fair, people are more likely to be a threat in most parts of the country, however, I wouldnt entirely dismess black bears as an issue. Very rare, but still to be considered.


We dont have brown bears here either, but we have grizzlies. I know of more people that have been hurt or killed by grizzlies than by people.

I think that being armed when you spend much time in a bear woods whether it be grizzly, brown bear, or black bear is a good idea. If you are willing to carry bear spray, I think you are better off using that as your first line of defense. The gun is a back up. But from a practical point of view, many people won't recognize aggressive behavior exhibited by bears or they only will have time to choose one or the other (bear spray or gun).

I would choose a gun that is reasonable in terms of caliber, but it is unlikely to stop every charge or attack as quickly as you would hope even with good hits. After all, black bears commonly run a 100+ yds when hit with a rifle in the chest (a good shot). I assume brown and grizzly bears are the same when hit.

So everything is a compromise and you use what you have and you just accept the possibility that you could get hurt from a bear attack. But bear attacks are not common by any means. They do seem to be increasing, especially black bears as I understand it. But even if you are spending a lot of time in a woods with a high population of bears, still it is not likely you will have any encounters at all and maybe you will be lucky enough to see a bear in the woods.

Animal...people...the .357 magnum does it all well. A bit light for Griz, I guess, but I've never actually seen a griz outside of the zoo. O'l Ben Lily kilt 'em all out where I've hiked in bear country.

It's estimated that about 2,500 to 3,000 mountain lions live in Arizona, I live in a high density mountain lion area and there's been increased lion activity on my property this year. While attacks on humans are extremely rare, attacks on dogs aren't and this includes anything from raccoons to large bruins.

If thick brush grows where one hikes or camps, then it would seem prudent to carry a sufficient caliber/ammunition that will penetrate intermediate barriers and whatever threat presents itself.

From earlier this year is a brief account of a rabid mountain lion attack at a campground.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Mountain-lion-that-attacked-campers-had-rabies-150694995.html

2zulu1 said:

It's estimated that about 2,500 to 3,000 mountain lions live in Arizona, I live in a high density mountain lion area and there's been increased lion activity on my property this year. While attacks on humans are extremely rare, attacks on dogs aren't and this includes anything from raccoons to large bruins.

If thick brush grows where one hikes or camps, then it would seem prudent to carry a sufficient caliber/ammunition that will penetrate intermediate barriers and whatever threat presents itself.

From earlier this year is a brief account of a rabid mountain lion attack at a campground.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Mountain-lion-that-attacked-campers-had-rabies-150694995.html

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That is the second story I have heard of a rabid mountain lion attack in the last few years. A young boy was attacked a few years back. One of the people in his group shot the lion if I remember correctly.

Fortunately, another adult — P.J.’s uncle — in the party had brought a handgun along and had left it in a vehicle that was parked nearby. He ran to get the gun, and when the animal started to investigate whether P.J.’s head was bite-sized, Smith told him to shoot the animal, which he did with one extremely well-placed shot.

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http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23592...ool-mountain-lion-tries-eat-him/#.UIGw0Bz8Fqw

I would rather have someone with a handgun that knows how to use it than any frying pan.

Good article 2zulu1. It's not just bears.

Fl Woods Carry

Where I live the most likely predator encounter would be feral dogs, the largest land animal would be black bear, and the most likely either alligator or water moccasin. All of them, as well as criminals intent on bodily harm, would be well served by my S&W 1076 loaded hot. I'm looking into making snakeshot for the chambered round as the water moccasins are aggressive and, in the case of bears, the first round would most likely be fired to frighten.

A heavy gun, it tames recoil well and carries comfortably in a Diamond D Guides Choice. Having 10 rounds is also a comfort.

If my destination was in Grizzly habitat it would change to either my 45-70 or 12GA with slugs with a S&W 629 as backup.

Mountain lions attacks? I think you've got a better chance of being hit by lightning, carrying a rifle then you do being attacked by a ML.

That said, I wouldn't want to be wrestling one with a knife.

Pretty much any excuse to carry a gun, hmmm?

Alaska444 said:

That is the second story I have heard of a rabid mountain lion attack in the last few years. A young boy was attacked a few years back. One of the people in his group shot the lion if I remember correctly.



http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23592...ool-mountain-lion-tries-eat-him/#.UIGw0Bz8Fqw

I would rather have someone with a handgun that knows how to use it than any frying pan.

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Lion attacks were both in the Tonto National Forest and both lions were rabid.

I don't know how feral dog problems are handled in other jurisdictions, but here dogs that aren't captured are put down by Dept of Ag hunters and not only are they tested for rabies, they are also tested for plague. IIRC, earlier this year a feral dog tested positive for the plague in the central part of the state.

About a month or so ago a neighbor, who lives over a mile away, had a racoon climb a 5ft wire fence and attack a small group of pet dogs. Three dogs received bite and scratch marks and they killed the racoon in about 30 seconds. Animal control tested the racoon and the results came back negative for rabies. When it comes to pet dogs, wild animals are very unpredictable in their actions and that may be part of the reason why 357/44mags are very popular in this ag/beef area.

It's important to recognize signs of the different predators that inhabit areas where one is hiking/camping in. I've been hiking with friends and on one occasion a lady remarked about how irresponsible it was for dog owners to let their pets poop on the trail and not pick it up. In actuality it was black bear scat that wasless than an hour old.

This 5.5" wide mountain lion footprint on top of my size 11 boot print also happened in a very short time frame, and it's not the only time that's happened.



Just because one doesn't see wildlife along a trail doesn't mean wildlife hasn't seen you. Anyone who has been on a good mountain horse will see a lot more wildlife than a hiker simply by keying off what the horse is looking at.

One of the 'harriest' encounters I've experienced was when I came across a young bull moose grazing along a trail, I don't worry much about bears and mountain lions, but moose can be very unpredictable with humans.

a couple weeks ago a neighbor had a mountain lion come into their yard and take one of their goats. don't know why the cats are getting fearless. we have plenty of mule deer around here for food.

we have mountain lions all around, but this is the first time i have heard of one coming into town and taking an animal. small dogs will disappear, but we blame coyotes.

hope this rabies thing isn't going to turn into a problem.

murf

Around here, years ago, they banned the use of dogs for hunting them. Guess what.. you need dogs to hunt them pretty much. lots of cats now

Sounds about right Certaindeaf. No dogs and you success rate drops dramatically.

I hiked the Appalachian Trail from GA to Ma and carried a Kel-Tec 380. Never shot the thing in over 2000 miles on the trail.

There were hikers that carried, most Glocks (all sizes), Sig, even a couple of 1911s. All where carried in the backpacks. Mine was carried in a hip belt pocket with a empty chamber.


The truth is that if you are hiking, with a partner, there is every little to fear. The biggest problem were non-hiking humans in areas where the trail was close to towns. Being smart, and aware of ones surrounding was for the most part enough. That said there were more than a few times when it was reassuring to have a pistol in my sleeping bag.



As for dangerous wild life
I saw 4 bears, dozens of snakes, scores of moose and the only animal that caused me any problem were the shelter mice. The bears in Georgia were very good at stealing food that was not hung up.


If I were really concern about bear attacks the pistol I would take would be a Remington 870 Short barreled with a pistol grip & a folding stock, loaded with slugs. On my waist would be a very large can of bear spray. Bear Spray works very well on people....

lefteyedom said:

I hiked the Appalachian Trail from GA to Ma and carried a Kel-Tec 380 (in my) belt pocket with a empty chamber.

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Since they are perfectly safe to carry chamber loaded, I presume you carried chamber empty to save weight?

The biggest problem were non-hiking humans in areas where the trail was close to towns.

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Bingo.

TexAg said:

When out hiking or camping (in a place you can legally carry, openly or concealed) what is your gun of choice? Is it a compromise gun for all occasions whether you expect to meet backwoods pot-growers or a bear? Or do you weigh your likeliness of meeting either one and adjust your preferred gun to meet the more likely encounter?
For instance, if you're very far out and think you're much more likely to enounter a grizzley, do you take your .454, .500, etc?
Or if in another location, you think you're more likely to enounter 3-4 armed dudes that don't want you blabbing about their secret meth lab, so you carry your high capacity semi-auto?
Do you adjust accordingly on your percieved threat or do you have a standard do-all?
Personnally, I've done all three and not necessarily for genuine percieved threats, but more for the fun of it and an excercise in the philosophy behind it.
I've carried a Ruger old Vaquero in .45 Colt, S&W Model 19, 6" GP100, and a Glock 17 while hiking.
I'm not really talking about Taffin's Perfect Packin' Pistol, similar, but with more of an anti-personel role.
I found the Model 19 with 4" barrel a pretty good compromise (in non-brown bear country), easily loaded with heavy, deeper penetrating rounds and more quickly reloaded than a single-action.
I'm sure many would say the Glock 20 or 29 would fit their likes better.
And if in the great north, I'm sure there are more who prefer a .44 Mag.
So what is your do-it-all compromise gun when you're away from civilization?

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Anywhere outside of brown/grizzly/polar bear country, I reckon my S&W Model 19 and GP100 sixguns are my comfort guns. I have sometimes carried one .357 revolver with anti-personnel JHPs and another with hard-cast 180s. The second gun is likely to be an SP101, which actually handles the heavy hard-cast loads quite comfortably.

Alternatively, in the future, as a G26 is on my short list, I might load a revolver with the heavy hard-cast stuff and the baby Glock with the JHPs.

What I am doing is obviously not light-weight long-distance hiking; my bad knee has not permitted me to do that for some time. Two handguns are not a burden on a day hike.