Trail/Camping gun decisions

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David E

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For YOUR woods, what thoughts run thru your head when selecting a trail or camping gun?

For example, many people favor a S&W Mountain Revolver in .45 Colt, then list loads that are .45 acp equivalent. That doesn't make sense to me.

If they have the same power, then why give up more shots and easier carry for less shots in a bulkier gun?

Now, change the .45 Colt loads to a 300 grain SWC @ 900 fps and that changes things.

Any bears in your woods? If so, have you ever seen any? How close?

For camping, do things change? Maybe you carry more for 2-legged predators instead of any 4 legged ones? Ever have any encounters or situations that made you extremely glad you had your gun?

How do you carry it? Open? Concealed? In the pack or car?

When I go, my primary reason for a gun is for other people. I pack a gun that's adequate for that task. Capacity is a good thing, as I may not be able to replenish my gun as quickly as I'd like.

Power? At least a 9mm. But depending on season and reason for being in the woods, I may choose a S&W .44 magnum or a 25-5 in .45 Colt with 5" barrel, or a 1911 in .45 acp or 9x23 or a Glock 20 in 10mm.

Generally, I prefer to conceal them, IWB, Pancake or shoulder rig, but sometimes wear the revolvers in an exposed cross-draw rig. Either in a Bianchi Cyclone #111, or the KyTac Trail Rider.

At least 2 reloads are carried on body.

For me, .38 snubbies are not a good choice for a primary trail/camping gun. Too little power, range, accuracy and capacity.

So, what thoughts go thru your head when deciding which gun to take?
 
We have cougars and bear, but I'd consider the two legged vermin to be any threat I've ever run into. Also, wild domestic dogs. I either carry my 1911 Officers 45ACP concealed or my Ruger Redhawk and attempt to conceal it. I had to draw it once because two guys wanted to kick my butt and drew the 45 on a german sheppard that came close to attacking.
 
I live and play in the woods in Washington. We have a big cougar in our yard on a regular basis and bear prints every few months. There are lots of crack heads living about three miles away so I'd say we're in their "home range" as well. I concealed carry an XD45 Compact with night sights and a guiderod laser at all times. It's loaded with HST +Ps and I carry between 1 and 3 thirteen round reloads depending on where I'm going and how long/far I'll be gone. I'd sure hate to need to shoot a bear with it but for any other need in Tahuya Forest it's good to go. When I go four wheeling, driving the backroads, walking in the woods, or whatever I take my Saiga .308 carbine. With the stock folded it slings on my back nicely. The few people, including a game warden, that have seen it haven't freaked out. An older lady asked what it was for and I replied, "Bears and crackheads". She said, "Good idea! Can we walk with you?" :)

I lived in Seattle's "Little Mexico" for 15 years so crackheads don't scare me, but they do get my undivided attention. Bear and cougar scare me. I've had many close encounters with crackheads and various BGs but I've never had what I consider a close call with a dangerous four legged animal. I believe there is no handgun that's adequate for bear. Short of a CNS hit I'm not sure that there's any rifle that's adequate for a pissed off mama bear. If I were in an area with bears where I couldn't carry a rifle I'd carry an S&W 460V with the heaviest, hottest loads it can withstand. If I ever find a great deal on a used one I may open carry it rather than slinging the Saiga. The bears here are relatively small and I hope I know how to deal with them without shooting. Probably still keep the .308 in the truck and carry it when the hairs on the back of my neck stand up though.
 
I have settled upon a 2.75" stainless Ruger security six as my primary hiking/camping/canoeing gun. I generally load it with doubletaps 180gr hard cast FP. I carry it in a safepacker, into which I can stack 3 speed loaders. If I am going on a short day hike in a semi-urban locale (a much more frequent thing) I will carry a .38 snub or small 9mm IWB and an extra speedloader/mag in my pocket. In all honesty, I worry about 2 legged predators more than 4 legged ones when I'm alone (or with my wife) on an isolated stretch of trail.
 
I'm kind of glad that this thread came up as I got to thinking about this the other day. Normally it frustrates me to no end becuase most folks always insist that you need to have at least a 155mm, and this for someone who lives in a state like say Ohio:confused: Now if one lives in real bear country ie grizzly then absolutely go with a .44mag or like ilk. Our grandfathers and great grandfathers seemed to do just fine with cartridges such as, .38 S&W, .41 Colt, .38-40, .44-40, .44 russian, .44 SPL, .45acp, and .45 Colt.

Where I live and hunt running into a black bear is a real possibility. However it has not happened yet. Unless one is not practicing good trash discipline then having a bear problem is a real threat. Bears aside however I'm more concerned with the possible 2 legged animals and possible run ins with a rabbid skunk or some such. My S&W M10 .38 SPL is always with me whether I'm camping or hunting (yes I typed .38 SPL) When I'm in the woods I load it with a standard 158gr SWC over 4.6gr Unique. I also have a speed loader full of the FBI rounds. Now if penetration is the order of business I also carry some 148gr DEWC loaded over a snootful of unique. For those that think the .38 SPL is weak for woods chores guess again. Look up brass fetcher and see what they did with Buffalo Bore 150gr WC out of a snubbie. My reload performs just as well if not better out of my M10, and per the Speer #13 manual it is standard pressure to boot.

Here is another good read as well.
http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/HG_wickedwadcutters_200901/index.html I understand that folks always dream about saving their camp from some nasty wild critter with long teeth and nails. But the reality of it is it just don't happen as much as folks seem to think. Unless getting runover by a chipmunk warrants a .44:D

One has to realize too that a sidearm should be second to a good long gun. When camping I have taken a shine lately to toting my Marlin 1894SS .44.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Buffalo...r standard pressure Hard Cast Wad Cutter.html
 
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Hello friends and neighbors // I think the .357 is good for my purposes.

I like the versatility of .357/.38 ammo and the fact that it is legal to hunt with my woods carry choice.
I carry Hard Cast in revolver, JHP and JSP in speed loaders, shot shells and more JSP in 2 film canisters.

Remote hiking I have been threatened by dogs , bears and humans.
In the Great Smokies I have had black bear come into camp on numberous occasions. We once had a large Mother with cubs try to get into our trail shelter. We had cooked ham in a skillet and the smell was very strong. A couple of M80 fire crackers finally chased her away. Even after we reinforced the dog chain holding the chain link door with rope, it was a long night.

After that I started carrying my Ruger Redhawk 7 1/2".44 revolver instead of my Stoger 11+1, 4" .22 semiauto pistol.
I now carry a S&W 586, 6" .357 either in a chest bag with other items (if I need to ditch backpack) or in a horizontal belly rig.

I now understand the chest bag would require a CCL.

I just purchased this Interarms Model 92 SRC (Rossi) .357 to go with my 6" S&W Model 586.
357rifle1.jpg
 
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A medium frame .357 is great, light .38 for small game, heavy magnum for bigger. I often tote a 4" Taurus M66 when I'm in hog brush. Might get some bacon, never know. I have a little .38 Rossi 3" M68, old Interarms gun that is VERY accurate. I will carry it just for bummin' around. I makes a great .38 caliber kit gun. I also have a little Rossi Sportsman .22 revolver that's very accurate that I will sometimes bring along on fishing trips. Great for plinking or small game. I have a 4 5/8" .45 Colt Blackhawk I've carried back packing and hunting in high country in west Texas and New Mexico, but usually tote the .357 even in bear country. Don't feel less than adequate and it's easier to carry.

All around in one gun, I gotta say, a medium frame .357 like my two Taurus 66s or a Security Six or a M19 Smith make great choices. A 5" M60 Smith would be EXCELLENT (has an adjustable sight) as a back packer's carry. It's powerful, yet light for long days afield. I don't find a medium frame gun too much, though. Main thing is, what I carry must be unusually accurate. 3" 25 yard groups just won't do. I like the gun to shoot better'n I do and all the guns mentioned that I own do. Well, the little Rossi .38 shoots 2" at 25. That's about my limit, prefer better, but the sight radius on that gun is a might short, so I give it credit. :D That little .22 kit gun will put 'em into 1" with the right loads and the other choices will, too.
 
These are the kind of responses I was hoping for. Whenever a "what's a good trail gun" thread comes up, it seems that everyone camps with grizzlies in their tent, or hikes with cougars in their pack and select a gun accordingly. Or, at the other extreme, there is no chance whatsoever that crackheads, idiots, or wild animals even exist, and that they take plenty of food, so why does anyone need any type of gun in the woods anyway?

So I'm not really asking "what's a good trail gun," but rather, "what thought processes do you go thru when selecting YOURS?"

As an example, when I went hog hunting with my daughter, she carried a Glock 17 as a backup. I thought it would be a good idea to have a compatible gun "just in case," so I carried a Glock 34 with a couple extra mags, while she carried one spare. Years ago in Colorado, I chose a 5906 as the woods gun because my guiding buddy had the compatible 5904. Lacking a like-armed partner, I wouldn't normally choose a 9mm. Or, if there were a more important reason to carry something larger, I would, regardless of any compatibility incentive.

I agree that a .357 makes a dandy trail/camping gun. A hot loaded .38 certainly can do the job, as well.
 
David E this is the thought process I use.

1) what am I doing, hunting, or walking the property checking for poachers? If im not hunting a lot of times the M10 gets traded for the S&W M60. The chiefs special goes along more often during the summer months. It also gets loaded appropriately. I also carry a Henry .22 lever action so I can keep the wood chucks at bay as we give horse rides in the summer.

2) What types of animals and or people will I encounter? This factor determines whether I carry more SD ammo or more of my SWC/WC ammo.

3) The other factor that I think about is muzzle blast. I like my hearing a lot as I'm sure most others do as well. Which is another reason for me doting on the .38 SPL. I don't hunt or walk around the woods/property with my ears plugged. So if I see a target of opportunity I don't want to worry about my ears ringing for the next 3 hours. This where I think the .38 SPL excels, with the exception of the snubbie though. That 4.6gr of unique under a cast 158gr SWC is easy on the ears when shot from my 4" M10. And it has always worked to good effect on whatever I turned it lose on. This is the reason I pretty much given up on magnums. I can't imagine shooting my 4" .41 mag without hearing protection ouch and ouch.

As I said in my other post though I always go out with a long gun too. I have yet to run into a situation where I needed to use my sidearm. After I got my S&W M10 though I did use it on targets of oppotunity on purpose. As I just had to see how well my handloads worked. Especially those dog-on porqupines. These things are out of control here and I don't need my two dogs getting tangled up with one. I can only imagine what the vet bill for that would be:uhoh:
 
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What I carry usually has to do with how open the country is.

While hiking the trails in my area a 3 or 4 inch 357 has more than enough reach. As most of my revolvers are blued, if it is possibly going to rain I will carry the XD45.

As cougars usually blitz attack I don't worry about them too much. Few bears in the area. The gun is for the oft deadly North American Primate.

In more rural areas I might drop a 22 in the backpack for plinking. If in an open area I carry a rifle. If that is not an option an 8 inch stainless Anaconda goes along for the trip.
 
The other factor that I think about is muzzle blast. I like my hearing a lot as I'm sure most others do as well.

This is a primary reason I don't carry a .357 much. I fired ONE shot without ear protection back in 1977......never again by choice.

I've not fired any hot .38's that I can recall without ear protection, so I dont know how close the "crack" is to the .357

I've found that the larger bores create more of a "boom" as opposed to that ear-piercing "crack" of the fast small bores.

For me, a .44 or .45 slug @ 1000 fps or less isn't that hard on the ears in the woods, at least, for a couple shots.
 
I backpack or camp in forest areas in the west. So far, by myself, miles from the trail head. The solitude refreshes me. I don't hunt, but want to stop anything or anyone from killing me. My threats include everything from people to moose.

Rather than having a lot of different guns, I went for platforms with a lot of versatility. So, I have a Glock 29 in 10mm and a 5.5" Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag.

I have 180gr hollow points and 200gr WFNGC ammo in 10mm. And standard 240gr to hot 340gr ammo for the Redhawk. Just vary my loads depending on the biggest, toughest thing I might encounter.

For example, around California, the Glock is appropriate. Whereas, in places like eastern Arizona, western Montana, I take the Redhawk.

woodsguns.jpg
 
Bears

A few months ago I was on patrol on Lafayette Drive in my town after a report of a black bear breaking in to a house. I arrived at the house and noticed that the porch was covered with a broken suet feeder, suet, a bag of bird seed, and also noticed that the kitchen window screen was torn off and the window was opened about two feet. The bear was sitting right inside on the dining room table eating a bag of sugar.

I called the local Fish and Game Ofc. for the area and he gave me permission to dispatch the bear. NH Fish and Game policy states that once a bear breaks into a residence it is now a problem/threat bear and can be put down. I readied my 12 ga. shotgun (slugs) and approached the window. I wanted the bear to leave the house before shooting it and approached about four feet away on the outside wall of the home. I readied my pepper spray and gave her a full shot right in the face. This made her leave VERY quickly and in obvious pain. I followed her around the back of the residence but could not get a clear shot due to other homes, Interstate 93 in the area. I decided to stand down. The home owner was given a warning for leaving his window open to the kitchen and Fish and Game did a follow-up at a later date.

My 12 ga. would have been very appropriate for this task, and I even feel comfortable with my Sig P-220 when needed. I've put down several bears and deer with it already. For moose we try to use the shotgun.

There are bears all over the place here, and I see them all the time. It's not uncommon to only be several feet away from them and I feel comfortable doing so. The trick is to learn the behavior signs that they are getting agressive....."huffing" noises, chomping and frothing at the mouth, stomping on the ground or batting at the ground, bluff charges, swaying, etc. Of course the biggest threat with the bears around here is getting between a mom and the kids. We also use flash-bang rounds and rubber ball to address the problems early without having to put them down.
 
a S&W Mountain Revolver in .45 Colt, then list loads that are .45 acp equivalent. That doesn't make sense to me.
I reload.
When in the woods, I don't care to have an auto-loader chuck all my expensive brass in the weeds never to be seen again.

And .45 ACP/.45 Colt power is plenty here in Kansas.

The most dangerous animal in our woods is walking on two legs, wearing a wife-beater T-shirt, and attending to his meth lab or pot field.

I most often carry a Colt Woodsman Sport, or Model 19 or 66 .357, or .44 Spl. 1950 Target, or a .45 ACP Mountain Gun, or a .45 Colt SAA.

All are under 40 oz., easy pack'n guns that will kill anything that poops in the woods around here

rc
 
The most dangerous animal in our woods is walking on two legs, wearing a wife-beater T-shirt, and attending to his meth lab or pot field.

I most often carry a Colt Woodsman Sport, or Model 19 or 66 .357, or .44 Spl. 1950 Target, or a .45 ACP Mountain Gun, or a .45 Colt SAA.

All are under 40 oz., easy pack'n guns that will kill anything that poops in the woods around here
But what if you run into a constipated meth cooker?:p
 
David the .38 SPl even at +P pressures it is esay on the ears. At +P pressures those 158gr SWC over 5.4gr of Unique are going about 950fps from the 4" tube. My other load with 4.6gr of unique and the same bullet is even more gentle to the ear drums. It sure is heck not gentle to whatever recieves one to the pumphouse however. I have been toying with the idea of trying some 180gr bullets in the ol' M10. But it is hard to justify when those little DEWC do such a good job as it is. Plus they hit close to POA which I know wouldn't happen with the heavier slugs.
 
I don't care to have an auto-loader chuck all my expensive brass in the weeds never to be seen again.

I am largely a revolver guy and totally agree about the problem of seeding the woods with brass from a bottom feeder. That said, I will sometimes carry an XD45 because quite often I am not planning on shooting. If an unlicensed pharmacist is an issue I don't mind loosing a few pieces of brass.
 
When hiking I open carry with either a Ruger GP 100 or Ruger Alaskan 44 mag. If I want something lighter I carry a Glock 23.
 
I’ve been a backpacker since the ‘60s. I started going into the Rockies in Oct. ‘71 and have gone most summers since. My choices have changed over the years, depending upon the perceived threat and, as I’ve “gone past 39,” weight and size.

The guys who taught me backpacking in the early ‘70s were retired military and preferred rifles. One did something I’d not heard of before that, he made his own ammo. His favorite handgun was a S&W (probably a pre-27) and the other guys all said he wasn’t happy unless his ammo could drill holes through the mountains.

Elsewhere in THR you’ll find photos of my choices.

When I got an Anaconda I figured I’d never switch. But I also still carried a Marlin .45-70 in the Bitterroots, but was “encouraged” to give it up after I hurt myself one year, and the Doc said Lighten The Load. Hamilton Bowen modified my Ruger Redhawk to .500 Linebaugh. Lighter than the Marlin, but still weighty, not to mention way more than needed in black bear country.

I got the S&W 629 Mountain Gun in .44 and used my hand loads, which pushed a 240gr bullet at 1,000 fps. When S&W introduced the blue 29 as a mountain gun, I got one of those but prefer the stainless model for the trail. I get wet, sweaty and dirty, and blue doesn’t hold up as well. Today I carry the 329PD. More about it later.

I then loaded .44s with 300-gr bullets at 1200 fps from the Mountain Gun and put four in the cylinder with my lighter loads in the other two. This was because I was packing on the Wyoming Trail in Colorado, camping along Sawmill Creek one year. In one of the other forums on THR, someone spoke on not shooting moose because the moose hadn’t harmed the writer. Welll, I was not killed by a moose at Sawmill because I got away. Momma Mooses do NOT consider humans as objects of interest for their calves! I wanted something in case I can’t get away next time.

You mentioned two-legged predators. In all the years of packing, and other than Mrs. Moose, my worst concerns were about other people. Now, I go remote. No roads, no ATVs usually allowed, only people who like to go out there. All but a tiny fraction are well-behaved (and there are many more people than years ago). Those few usually are breaking rules, such as driving their ATVs or snowmobiles where none are allowed. Once my best friend and I were camping in the Tin Cup Pass area when a group of 4 came in on ATVs, off the allowed road. They were drinking and began shooting across the valley at essentially anything. We were most distressed to learn they planned to camp there, about 100 yards from us. As soon as it got dark we rolled up our tents and moved a mile further away.

I’m a gun guy, but whenever I encounter people who want to “play” with their guns irresponsibly, such as in the National Forests where discharging firearms is prohibited except for hunting, I get suspicious and move on.

I would not have considered any semi-auto as suitable for packing. The Desert Eagle and LAR Grizzly are simply too heavy. My youngest son, a Copasaurus, snitched the Grizz and he’s welcome to it. I used to disparage the .40S&W as a black bear round until I encountered a retired Forest Ranger who said they worked fine. He carried a Ruger. I like semi-autos a lot, but prefer revolvers for backpacking. Less to worry about.

I always carry openly on a belt. Cougars never used to be a threat, but are, now. August ‘09 I encountered the first one I ever saw. It was big and had jumped across the trail and down the slope before I could say “S**T!” Never mind actually getting to the gun, and it WAS on my belt! In ‘98 I was camping in the Idaho Bitterroots. I was sitting on an animal trail about one-third up the slope from a creek when an elk, heading down, failed to see me below him until he had begun to take the small jump to the trail. He leapt almost over me as he bounded down the mountain. In ‘04 I was camping near Buffalo Pass in CO. I found a beautiful spot to range from and stayed there (this was late May) because the road was blocked by deep snow that was too rotten for snowmobiles. Each morning just after dawn what I called the “Elk Delta Elite Attack Force” composed of four elk, each weighing well over 1,000 lbs, came bounding over the fallen trees and passed within 20 yards of my tent. Another summer, along Sawmill Creek, I camped in a nice open area along the stream. In the middle of the night I hear “Kathum kathump kathump WHACK!” I had managed to pitch my tent in the elk “County Fair Grounds” and they were holding their mating competition, without any concern for the dinky human and his tent.

Sooo, I want a round that will seriously deter, if not kill, such critters should I need to. Let me note, I have NEVER felt the need to, not even ( or maybe especially not ) Momma Moose.

As to bears, I’ve heard them around my camp a time or two, but never been threatened by one. BUT, just in case I encounter one that skipped class the day they taught bear-human socialization, I want my gun instantly accessible.

Which brings up holsters. After an impromptu roll down a mountainside in ID, where I confirmed something I intuitively knew: that my backpack would probably float but my revolver would sink, I had a custom one made for my 29/629 Mountain Guns and the 329.

Note that National Forests allow open carry. National Parks have not, though I read that is changing. Don’t trust them. Call ahead. Many states do not allow carry of any kind in their state parks. Always check. Though I can’t really advocate breaking the law, I am most leery of other campers in state parks. For one thing, the parks tend to be smaller and closer to civilization, so people go there to party. My wife and I had some ugly confrontations with rowdy campers in state parks. I would always feel safer armed, but if you pull your gun to ward off someone threatening you, the rangers will arrest YOU. I think the old rule of don’t draw unless you intend to shoot, and don’t shoot unless your life is threatened applies.

I do carry a backup when backpacking. Where legal, it is loaded and in my belly pack. Under another forum you’ll find photos of my much modified S&W 386NG. That’s my main backup on the trail.

The 329PD. I got this gun with much doubt I could make it work, especially with heavy loads like the 300-gr bullets. I read John Taffin’s recommendations on firing heavy recoil revolvers and found they work. Basically, do not attempt to control the recoil. I really hurt my wrist one year until I learned this. Let your arm rise with the gun. I can now fire six to 12 rounds in practice without pain, something I do every year to sight in. Before I bought it I called S&W to specifically ask if the gun would handle the heavy, but still SAAMI-spec hunting loads, and they said “No problem.” Good enough for me.

The rubber grips are mandatory. I got LaserGrips Hoghunters and recommend them. I then had MagNaPort drill holes in the barrel and added Cylinder and Slide’s Extreme Duty tritium sight to the rear and the Ashley Big Dot to the front. I can find and aim the gun in any light, or point and shoot as needed.

You’ll find a lot of opinions about caliber. I am comfortable with the .44 Magnum and like the variations I can make at home. If you don’t reload, I recommend Garret 305-gr Hammerheads for big bears, elk, etc., and the new Hornady LeverEvolution rounds for anything else.

Hornady also makes that round for the .357. It does not kick badly in the NG and will stop cougars and, I’m told, black bears.

When I was half my age I also carried a .22 revolver, the Ruger Bearcat. Loved it. Loaded with shot shells it was a fine camp gun for the worst pests: rodents and stinging insects. I don’t carry one any more to save the weight, but carry shot shells for my .44 for rodents. I’ve carried .45-Colt and did not feel under-gunned in black bear / cougar country. I do think a S&W 25 fitted for .45ACP would do as well as .45-Colt and possibly better. I used to load 260-gr bullets in ACP as feed-test rounds for my autoloaders. Here again, if you load your own you can create some effective ammo, just be sure you are not exceeding the 45-Colt pressures.

9mm: Good for people, not so good for big critters (IMHO). That said, law enforcement rounds of 147-grains at +P+ pressures will likely do about as well as .357 Magnum. Some may argue with this, so it’s only a suggestion. I’m still not as comfortable with semi-autos as I am with revolvers on the trail, so you might look for a wheel gun made for the 9mm.

I am nearly always solo. My long-time friend has given it up for city life, and our children are getting on with their own lives. Since 1996 (an arbitrarily picked date) I have had companions four times. In addition to firearms I carry rocket flares and now, upon insistence of family, a device that will send a distress signal via satellite.

Sooo, to summarize, I advocate open carry in a quick-access holster. Unless you are in brown bear country or wish to be able to defend against huge four-footed critters, the .357 Magnum is plenty, or 9mm in a revolver. .40S&W or 10mm would also work fine. Lighter is better for a backpacker, but learn how to shoot it. For actual backpacking, I advocate for tritium sights and laser pointers. If you can, take a backup and take a camp gun in .22 for pests. For people I recommend just getting away from them, even if that means abandoning your stuff and running. They can be a problem in state parks and you should call the rangers or sheriff as soon as it even APPEARS trouble might start. Human predators don’t frequent National Forest or Park trails, so once outside the established campgrounds you’re really quite safe.

BTW, for day hikes I still love my Anaconda. If I didn’t have it I’d carry a Redhawk.
-Backpacker
 
Backpacker, thanks for sharing the stories. I don't know where to find any of your pictures, tho, and they would be informative to post here.
 
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unlicensed pharmacist

thats funny right there!

Thank you,

I hijacked that from the saying "Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”"

And while I do not expect to come across "unlicensed pharmacists" in my travels, the North American Primate is quite dangerous. They are the primary threat that I consider when carrying, on the trail or around town.
 
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