Doing your own "background" check on prospective buyers

Jeez, I'm glad I live in Northern Wisconsin. Some of you guys must live in Crime Central, USA.

AND I check the history of someone buying my gun to make sure they don't have a history of committing crimes which would not permit them to own a gun.

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How do you check to see if they are going to have a future of committing crimes with guns?

This makes me wonder if people are advertising guns for sale on Armslist to steal peoples identity? This would work great too. Nobody really gets to buy the gun, but everyone has to submit personal info to apply for the purchase. Then for whatever reason the seller finds a reason to not sell the gun everytime. You know I am GM guy and I just don't feel right selling a gun to a Toyota person, I am college educated and I just don't see myself selling a non college grad a gun, or insert asinine reason here.

Is it paranoid of me to google myself to see what comes up for S&G's?

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I have googled myself and have never come up with anything close to what you are claiming you found. If there was info like that it was on one of those pay sites. Dennis, I am going to raise the BS flag on this claim.

dennisrl84 said:

AND I check the history of someone buying my gun to make sure they don't have a history of committing crimes which would not permit them to own a gun.

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Yea, thats what you said, Dennis.

This is wandering far, far from where the OP meant though. Lets just leave it with;
Dennis doesn't like to sell guns
So Dennis takes the "private" out of private gun sales.
and coincidentally or not, doesn't sell too many of his guns.

You don't have to keep justifying it.....you aren't going to convince anybody here who's not already convinced that giving a stranger information that you don't need and isn't required in order to exercise their 2nd amendment right to purchase firearm, a is a good thing.

dennisrl84 said:

I do a simple search on the state records website that ANYONE has free and open access to..... SO when something is posted PUBLICLY on a website anyone can access for no cost or you can request it via the PUBLIC records office of a government is that still PRIVATE information? It seems weird that they would PUBLICLY make available such "private" info.

Maybe you need to come to terms with that info is not private in today's day and age. Hence why it is now called PUBLIC info.

You know when you apply for a job people do the same thing right? I am curious your thoughts on that? Typically the bitches and moans about the invasion of privacy is the one who has real issues paying for their fancy overpriced cars or fancy stereo systems. Employer's make judgements on offering people jobs based on HISTORY or credit, criminal and reference checks... Because there is evidence that supports relevance and likelihood of these people not making good employees.......AND because employers are nazis!

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Cool story bro,

Now all of the sudden its ok for you to run a background check on me, because you asked for information you didn't need, because the supposedly the "information is already out there"....after seeing the drivers license that was supposedly your only objective, and only then so you knew I wasn't lying about my name......all this would of course have to be done afterward the fact, unless you want to really piss me off by pulling your laptop out with my license in your lap, typing stuff in over the internet while I'm there with cash in hand to make the sale......
Now you are just doing stupid, invasive stuff that is not going to stop or prevent ANYTHING, that will not lessen your liability for ANYTHING.......

Dude, if you can't grasp why this is so objectionable and why I would NEVER conduct business with you or someone who asked for the same requirements...
Well, I have nothing left to say.

You want to be safe? arrange to meet me at an FFL, where YOU will arrange for a phone call to be made. NO TRANSFER, a phone call verification. That is the only way I MIGHT consider conducting the transaction, and probably not even then.

So if I am paranoid and a tactical mall cop for asking for someone's information then what does the many people who have provided it make them?

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Identity theft victims.

Or if he is being a retard just for giggles and to provide humor?

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That's kind of what I am wondering?

I think CLEARLY he is either a sociopath who needs major major psychiatric help or he is joking around to be funny...

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X2

You put on your seat belt not because you will but because you COULD be in an accident.

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No, b/c it carries the force of law just like an FFL dealer doing a bg check.

Really you are going to call BS that I cant find public records on house purchases and cellphone numbers on the internet?

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Yes.

is the one who has real issues paying for their fancy overpriced cars

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The Sequoia is paid for.

If you know my first and last name you will find ALL of that info on the first page of search results.

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What is it?

You realize you cant steal someone's whole identity or open up credit card accounts etc... with a full name and no social or DOB or place of birth or mothers maiden name or ALL those other silly questions banks and mortgage lenders and credit cards ask you.

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No I have never done that before. How do you get them to give out the rest of the info?

The burden on a seller is not to verify "good moral character" (what an unclean concept ) and shouldn't be. However, our laws currently leave the seller liable if the person is a felon, and since there are ways for such a person to both fall through the cracks or defeat the system, we're left CYA'ing as much as is necessary by checking information.

It'd be nice if the law forbidding sales to prohibited persons bothered to give a standard for checking their status (i.e. "so long as you ask them if they are prohibited, you are not liable for their lies" or "you checked their license and it was in-state, you are not liable if it was forged") so we'd at least have a goal to shoot for. Instead, we're left trying to prove a negative to protect ourselves, which is not how felony status is supposed to be utilized or determined.

We should only be obligated to back out of a sale if the status of the buyer is, "beyond a reasonable doubt," that of a prohibited person at the time of sale. If you never exchange anything but gun and money, then you have no further obligation to follow up or terminate the sale. If the buyer mentions in passing no FFL will sell him a gun, or that he will use it to "get even" with somebody, then both the law and common decency should dictate your actions.

Instead we have a nebulous, arbitrarily enforced mess that seems geared more for ensnaring folks in sting operations for the Mayors re-election effort, or nailing guys on the radar for other suspicions. If the prohibitions were important, they'd bother to collar the guys who bounce off the NICS servers

TCB

This is more for people in states with access to online court records that are instantly searchable for cases - both criminal and civil.

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What I don't like about this besides the blatant intrusion of privacy for no legal reason would be the part where court records show things that a person could have been charged with , but not convicted of. The charges are irrelevant, the conviction is everything.The way Oklahoma Supreme Court Network functions is that it shows everything civil or criminal or just charged or convicted. You have to open the details of the case to see what the outcome was.

I had a civil A&B case against me that was thrown out of court w/o prejudice. However, it is still on the records and somebody would need to know what they were doing to see what the outcome was. People shouldn't be wanting to look into others bg's and personal info like this.

It'd be nice if the law forbidding sales to prohibited persons bothered to give a standard for checking their status (i.e. "so long as you ask them if they are prohibited, you are not liable for their lies" or "you checked their license and it was in-state, you are not liable if it was forged") so we'd at least have a goal to shoot for. Instead, we're left trying to prove a negative to protect ourselves, which is not how felony status is supposed to be utilized or determined.

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You see what most of these people doing their own BG checks fail to understand is that they re only doing a single state BG check. They are not seeing Federal info or info from all other states. It is a little strange how in my state for example city warrants wont show up in neighboring cities. Nor will they show up on a county or state check. So in a nutshell most of the people trying to cya really aren't cya at all. They don't have the means to check thoroughly enough. So in essence they aren't cya at all. I believe keeping a copy of the buyers info would help to incriminate a person that accidently sold a gun to a federal felon. If there wasn't any paper connecting the seller to the buyer then the seller could just say "nope, never seen that guy before in my life".

thorazine said:

In addition I also requite fingerprints and a DNA sample.

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And I've been asking for semen samples this whole time! Was I going too far?

Mike

Sounds like you were going all the way Mike.

barnbwt said:

The burden on a seller is not to verify "good moral character" (what an unclean concept ) and shouldn't be. However, our laws currently leave the seller liable if the person is a felon, and since there are ways for such a person to both fall through the cracks or defeat the system, we're left CYA'ing as much as is necessary by checking information.

It'd be nice if the law forbidding sales to prohibited persons bothered to give a standard for checking their status (i.e. "so long as you ask them if they are prohibited, you are not liable for their lies" or "you checked their license and it was in-state, you are not liable if it was forged") so we'd at least have a goal to shoot for. Instead, we're left trying to prove a negative to protect ourselves, which is not how felony status is supposed to be utilized or determined.

We should only be obligated to back out of a sale if the status of the buyer is, "beyond a reasonable doubt," that of a prohibited person at the time of sale. If you never exchange anything but gun and money, then you have no further obligation to follow up or terminate the sale. If the buyer mentions in passing no FFL will sell him a gun, or that he will use it to "get even" with somebody, then both the law and common decency should dictate your actions.

Instead we have a nebulous, arbitrarily enforced mess that seems geared more for ensnaring folks in sting operations for the Mayors re-election effort, or nailing guys on the radar for other suspicions. If the prohibitions were important, they'd bother to collar the guys who bounce off the NICS servers

TCB

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What law does that?

..... wow is this one getting locked soon! .....


DL usually suffices if they are local.... CWP would be good addition these days!

If any doubt one could go to LGS and pay a few bucks to go through the system....

However, our laws currently leave the seller liable if the person is a felon,

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There has to be malice involved . IOW you know already they are a prohibited person before the sale. Keeping info on a buyer may very well end up biting someone. I could see a prosecutor thinking if you had the personal info that you should have very well known he was a felon in another state or a Federal prosecution.

Around here, anyway (and my understanding for other states where FTF sales are legal), the legal requirement is that you not have reason to believe they are a prohibited person.

Can you leave any negative feedback about him? If so, I'd destroy him.

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I would not be happy if a total stranger had pried into my personal life either, but the seller has the right to accept or reject any offer. But to try and "destroy" someone over the refusal to do business with you is a little extreme.

And I've been asking for semen samples this whole time! Was I going too far?

Mike

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If the buyers were females, I'd say yes........

.... CWP would be good addition these days!

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And if they don't have one?

Sorry, person has cash, I have gun - we agree on price, exchange goods FTF, shake and say Good Luck

The people requiring all the hoops , ID and CHL stuff are just making an example of why we should UBC on every purchase.

FWIW, I have sold several firearms face to face. I have not required anything from any of the buyers, although most offered a carry license.

Just wanted to add...

If you require the transaction takes place at a FFL or a BILL OF SALE needs to be completed please state the terms clearly in the advertisement.

It is very annoying to show up for a deal and have the seller whip out a bill of sale that was never previously mentioned before in the original advertisement or any subsequent communications.

I was prepared to walk on a deal just because of that however the seller finally backed down on the requirement.