How do you judge accuracy of handgun reloads?

0to60 said:

Katitmail said:

How do you judge accuracy of handgun reloads?

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The OP asks a great question ... Most people don't do an adequate test before concluding whether a given reload is accurate or not.

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Good point. I believe the OP is trying to determine the accuracy of reloads being developed, not the absolute accuracy of any pistol load.

Most reloaders do a full powder work up (or work up to high to almost to near max load data) for a given bullet/powder combination using published start to max charges. Using incremental powder charge increases (.1 - .3 gr), they will monitor the accuracy trends (shot group size) to determine the most accurate load to use that will reliably cycle the slide and extract/eject the spent cases.

I'm little confused by all the "very accurate load" posts that go along with some specific powder/load

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Some bullet/powder/charge combinations are more capable of producing more consistent and smaller shot groups than others.

Yeah, but in this case nothing works for me. Not sure if I need to blame my reloads

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Are you are referring to the accuracy of Rainier 200 gr HP and IMR PB loads for your Kimber Custom II?

You sound like a highly technical shooter as myself!! It's only accurate if you can shoot it the method in which you shoot!

Not sure if I need to blame my reloads

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Try factory ammo.
Which is better?
or are they the same?

Have you slugged the barrel to find out what size bullet you need?

There are certain cases where you can blame your ammo.

I had some 357 SIG ammo I had made, which I thought was loaded soft enough for a plated bullet to survive. It did not. Bullets tumbled horribly and missed POA by several feet. Nearly killed my chronograph. Luckily it was just one of the uprights for the sky screens.

I switched to nosler JHPs and they just loved going fast. Really fast.

For the most part IDPA doesn't require guns and ammo to be real accurate. A combo that's capable of 4-5" groups at 25 yards isn't much of a disadvantage when the -0 zone is twice that big and rarely do you shoot past 15 yards. Most service guns are easily capable of doing this with most any reasonable load. If you want to shoot bullseye you're gonna want a combination that's capable of shooting under 3" at 50 yards. that usually takes a little load development.

I think I need ransom rest if I want to comment on how accurate my loads is.

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If all your reloads shoot the same which one is the accurate one?

I have been making scope mounts.
I have been putting handguns in a 40 pound vise.

I don't have ransom rest. My personal accuracy with my guns is like 2 inch at 15 yards. Anything I loaded so far was "accurate" for me
I have chrono, I guess I can judge by fps how consistent load is. I guess it _might_ indicate consistent accuracy. What else?
I understand with rifles we shoot from bags, longer sight radius and it might be easier to judge. But with handgun I don't get it. How do you tell?

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Load accuracy (and the pistol) can only be tested out of a Ransom Rest.

If load shoots great out of a Ransom Rest, it may not be an accurate load for some shooters/uses Pure load accuracy is not enough to guarantee shooting accuracy for all users in all shooting scenarios. Likewise, the pistol itself.

Range plinking, Off the bench, Bullseye, Run-and-Gun, long range, shooting "rate" and the shooters "abilitities" all factor in to find the most accurate load for that shooter for that specific use.

The load that you shoot best, may not be your most accurate load.

Close Is Good Enough

While I agree that a Ransom rest is the top-of-the-line fixture with which to determine accuracy of a handgun load, I also recognize that it's a pretty expensive way to get there. Similarly with rifles, there is a bullet maker's fixed, 24" test barrel/action that doesn't move at all. But in rifles, we can go to a lead sled and get a group that is pretty close, or we can go to bags, or rested elbows, or prone, etc....

The question is, "how good is good enough?" There are adjustable rests out there that will let you rest the pistol butt and barrel, and as long as you work to make your grip and pull consistent, you can get a good relative idea of various loads' inherent accuracy. I think a good example is this one:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/832668/hyskore-pivoting-pistol-shooting-rest

I have used a similar rest for load testing in my handguns in the past, and it was enough for me to make a decision as to the best reloads for several handguns I was shooting at the time.

1SOW said:

Load accuracy (and the pistol) can only be tested out of a Ransom Rest..

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Well that's just wrong. I think there were such men that could and can tell if a handgun (and its load) is accurate, without a Ransom Rest.

Originally Posted by 1SOW View Post
Load accuracy (and the pistol) can only be tested out of a Ransom Rest..

Well that's just wrong. I think there were such men that could and can tell if a handgun (and its load) is accurate, without a Ransom Rest.

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I can see it both ways. The rest will give you an idea of what might be the most accurate from the handgun, however even a load that shoots everything through the same hole is still only as capable as the shooter once in his hands.

I have been shooting handguns for quite a while and can usually pretty easily put 5-6 rounds from a revolver, or 7-8 from a pistol into a 2" group at 25yds offhand with a two hand hold. Take the same of either or both and put them in my friends hands and all bets are off of even hitting the target with all of the rounds.

Experience and technique play a big role in accuracy. In order to hit the same everything else must also be the same. Same hold, grip, trigger squeeze, and sight picture. Change any of them and groups go to pot real quick.

I shoot my worked up loads from a rest, once I am getting more or less one hole groups I work from offhand from there on out. If I know they groups are good from the rest I know I should be able to get very close otherwise. It takes practice and more practice to get there. Similar to shooting a compound bow, you just don't pick one up and go shoot 10 shot accurate groups, it takes practice and technique. You simply have to work up to it. Once you do, you have to stay at it or things will deteriorate over time.

I judge an accurate load by putting 6 rounds through a slightly enlarged hole at 25yds, and then less than 2" at 50 off a rest. Then I judge myself and MY accuracy by how close I can come to repeating that while standing and shooting a two hand hold offhand. Usually I'm pretty darned close at 25, but 50 and further I do get some that I wonder what the heck was with that one. Usually I know when it goes off however that it was not going to be a "group" shot. I expect this because I get sweat in my eye at just the wrong time, or I squeeze the trigger a little off, or the hammer falls just as I wiggle off the bull. It happens, I expect it, and there is no way around it over the course of time, but within the averaged round count fired, the number of times is pretty small.

As a for instance here is a little work up I did with my Raging Bull and some cast bullets I poured up. Bearing in mind the 8.375" Raging Bull is a handful of a revolver, and the weight alone takes a bit of getting use to not to mention the recoil. Still in all this is about the average groups I can usually easily shoot with an accurate load offhand at 25yds with revolvers and pistols, and like mentioned 50yds gets a bit tougher.

Did a little shooting

Bds....Wow, mirrors my finding at the range the other day. Having utilized the plunk test and subsequently lengthened OAL a tad in the lastest reloads really shrank my groups over factory ammo. I have new confidence thanks to this forum!

Russellc

The reason most posters put YMMV in their posts is that for any given recipe it may, or very well may not be accurate in YOUR gun. The reason handloads could be more accurate than standard factory fodder is that a given load, bullet, powder, OAL can be tuned to work with your specific gun. That is something that no factory round can do for you.
As to it being an accurate test, well, that goes along the lines of how accurate do you need/want it to be?
As many will attest, most handguns today are much more accurate than the shooter is capable of.
The trick to reloading is to find the right recipe/combination to achieve your goals. Be it 5 shots into 2" at 25 yards, utterly reliable, or anything else that is important to the shooter/loader.

For me, you just hit it right on the head. The Glock 17 needs and can function 1.165 fine, and it helped. Obviously most factory ammo is a little short for the 17's optimal performance.

Russellc

If you mount the Ransom rest on a wood plank and then put a vertical 'arm' sticking up to hold a scope you can really wring out a gun.

Just put the cross hairs on a convenient spot on the backer and see how big the group is.

After you find out how good the gun is, try it holding it with both hands any way you want.

The rest seems to win about 100% of the time.

if you hit the smallest circle on the target, you done good

Well that's just wrong. I think there were such men that could and can tell if a handgun (and its load) is accurate, without a Ransom Rest.

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Sure there are, but my statement still stands. The only true way to know "WHAT Specific accuracy a load can produce in a specific gun is using a fixture that only tests the load.

How about this for accuracy?

Posted on Missouri Bullet Company FB page on 4/23/13.

May, 2013 issue of The American Rifleman has us on page 61 in an entry from Aaron Carter (Managing Editor) concerning our .44 Magnum bullet. He got an average of 2.52" over five 5-shot groups at 50 yards

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In a nutshell, JohnM has it right in post #2. When the bullets are hitting what you are aiming at, then they're "accurate".

I suppose a technically more accurate way of stating that is "When the bullets are hitting what the GUN is aimed at, then they're "accurate"."


What remains, then, are the standards by which you determine that accuracy...a set distance, the shooting stance, the gun you are shooting the ammunition from, and so forth.

Assuming you're experienced enough to consistently hit your target with an established grouping using whatever gun you shoot, then the practical definition of "accuracy" revolves around how the loads compare to other ammunition you fire from the same gun.

I suppose there are people out there who do "match-grade" shooting, use fancy bench rests, chrono every shot, keep extensive records of mean deviations and such...but that's definately not me. I keep it reeeeal simple.