Kel tec pf9 or ruger lc9

Gary A said:

Forgive me for exceeding the parameters of the question, but I have been window shopping for a small 9mm, preferably hammer-fired and looked at both the LC9 and PF9. I've been leaning toward Ruger until another, a bit more expensive pistol caught my attention. Consider the Sig Sauer P290RS. Costs a bit more in the mid 4's I understand but come with two magazines, a six and an eight round. Is hammer fired, real DAO, with re-strike capability, no magazine disconnect, no internal lock, no huge LCI, has night sights, stainless slide (either natural or nitron finished). The inserts in the polymer frame are steel, not aluminum, which does make the pistol a bit heavier at 20 ounces or so but arguably stronger, IMO. It is shorter than the Ruger in height and length but is a tad thicker.

I have not been able to examine one yet but I'm not going to buy any small 9mm "pocket pistol" until I can. And I am a long time Ruger fan.

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If you plan on pocket carry IMO the extra width and weight are critical with the LC9 thinner and lighter, but if you plan on IWB carry the Sig is interesting.

For me second strike capability is not important and would not be used in a self defence siduation. Most police departments teach officers to do a tap rack if there is an FTF.

The Sig will beat the Ruger and KT hands down for IWB. I own the Sig 9 and it is an awesome shooter. The Sig 380 is the smoothest shooting 380 I have ever fired. Both are a bit bigger than the "pocket" sized Rugers and KTs but for IWB they should be fine. Just plan on spending about an extra $200 on them.

LC9 too big for pocket.

My LC9 is just a little too big for pants pocket carry for me. It fits in my Levi's pockets but it's a little too big. I'm not a big guy though. I usually carry IWB.

jrdolall said:

The Sig will beat the Ruger and KT hands down for IWB. I own the Sig 9 and it is an awesome shooter. The Sig 380 is the smoothest shooting 380 I have ever fired. Both are a bit bigger than the "pocket" sized Rugers and KTs but for IWB they should be fine. Just plan on spending about an extra $200 on them.

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I haven't shot the Sig, but it will beat the LC9 how? Always nice to have some facts.

hogcowboy said:

I personally can not stand the trigger or any trigger like that one on the SR9C.

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I guess everyone has their preferences, but the trigger on my SR9c is delicious.

Kokapelli said

If you plan on pocket carry IMO the extra width and weight are critical with the LC9 thinner and lighter, but if you plan on IWB carry the Sig is interesting.

For me second strike capability is not important and would not be used in a self defence siduation. Most police departments teach officers to do a tap rack if there is an FTF.

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Both good points. I like the LC9 better than the PF9 but it is a bit more "lawyered up" than I would like. Re-strike is not important but the other features the 290 has, and the features it does not have, are intriguing. An LC9 locally runs about $360 plus tax. Add another magazine and we are near around $400 plus tax. A 290 will run around $450 plus tax, give or take and comes with two magazines and night sights. To me, that's intriguing and worth checking out.

I haven't shot the Sig, but it will beat the LC9 how? Always nice to have some facts.

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No facts to quote. Only personal experience from owning both. I prefer the Sig trigger though it is not "heads and tails" better than the Ruger. The weight is a tad higher on the Sig or at least it "feels" that way to me though I haven't actually weighed them. It also "feels" a bit more "bulky" than the Ruger or the KT which is why I don't like it as much for pocket carry. It is a bit shorter but I guess the weight is the deciding factor for my pocket. I like Sig pistols and always have.
I have actually started carrying either a DB9 or one of a couple of 380's I own because I prefer the smaller pistols for pocket carry.

Whoa. You want facts? This is the internet so you've come to the wrong place.

Kiln said:

Whoa. You want facts? This is the internet so you've come to the wrong place.

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No I think most of the people here are pretty good with facts, but opinions not based on facts are another story.

my PF-9 hasn't been a problem Iam nearing 500 rounds Some of that +P ammo I like for carry

Do yourself a favor and just get a better quality gun. Your life may depend on it someday, and you don't want to quibble over a couple hundred dollars when it comes to that. Go for a Kahr CW9, and you will still be under 4 hundred and have a reliable weapon.
I carry a PF9 and have had every small pistol named. Go with either Kahr or Glock, Sig gets expensive. S&W has trigger issues "on some" , and LC9, although it does shoot well, is internally weakly manufactured. The trigger wobble is extreme. Get a gun that has been around a long time and has all the bugs out and one that isn't the cheapest thing out there. The Kel-tec , is not a gun you want to bet your life using, there are good and bad ones, mine was terrible.

gym said:

Do yourself a favor and just get a better quality gun. LC9, although it does shoot well, is internally weakly manufactured.

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Do you have some facts to back that up?

I haven't seen any threads about LC9 pistols falling apart, have you?

Yes I have posted this in detail several times before, and don't plan on doing it again. If you ever felt the side to side "wobble" on the LC9 and questioned a tech at Ruger about it, they will explain that the trigger was seizing under heavy use, so they left an extreme amount of play in there to prevent tis from happening, thus several replacement triggers sears etc have been made by Galloway and Rtk along with others to rectify this. I also tried the RTK fast reset trigger and then had problems with the entire firing mechanism failing to reset. If you take the gun apart and just look at the play in the trigger and the trigger spring you will see the flimsy way it is constructed.
No one said the gun doesn't work, it just doesn't work up to my expectations. They should have re engineered the entire firing system rather than allow the gun to have that much play. Here is the first response I got to googling problems with the lc9 trigger
http://rugerpistolforums.com/forums/lc9-technical/12738-lc9-trigger-won-t-reset.html
I don't say things that aren't true, this was an admission from ruger when I called and asked what was going on with the play in the trigger, It was seizing up, so we made it that way purposely. It may never cause you a problem, but I can't shoot a gun with such a sloppy trigger.
Not when there are better guns that have a much better fit and finish. But you get what you pay for, "most times", which is why I just don't buy cheap guns anymore, there are no bargains, if you want a well made gun, you need to pay up for it.
No one enjoys paying 6-700 for a Kahr pm9, but that's what they cost if you want an excellent small 9mm that works every time, or a Glock subcompact, or a XDS, etc.
And I am not even touching on Kimbers Colts, Sigs, or H&K's. That's when the thousand plus guns come into play. You can get a good carry gun with night sights, either used for 4-500 or new for 5-800. Get a better gun and you will be much happier in the long run.

Ok that's interesting. My LC is a 2013 production. Do you have any instances of later production LC failures? I don't.

One or two failures on a new model doesn't disturbed me at all.

You recommend the Kahr PM9 over so called "cheap" guns, well my PM9 had to go,back for a new slide and barrel and it was anything it cheap!

I honestly don't make it a point of following up on a gun I no longer own, nor have any interest of doing so. I just wanted to aid in the decision making process that was originally asked about. Not to draw out a long arduous conversation about the history of the LC9, "I don't care". I tried to advise you of my knowledge of these particular two handguns. It is true with all things, value is not always about cost.
I assume Kahr made you whole on your problem with their weapon. All guns have some problem at some time in their lifespan, they are machines and machines break.
The difference here is just that the question looms "what is your life worth to you?". I am looking at the new Porsche in an email from Porshe/mercedes, It's 887 HP. I will never own it but with guns, you can own near the best, for not a lot more than the mediocre. Why waiver when it's a minimum amount that won't change your life, but could cost you that very thing.
It is a very enlightening moment if and when you have to draw that gun and shoot another person in order to save your life, I at least want to feel certain that the darn thing is going to work. SO far I have been right in my prior selections.

Just shows that not everyone has the same experience.

My $750 PM9 failed with fewer rounds through it than my LC9 now has through it, so you won't be able to convince me that a more expensive gun is necessarily more reliable.

I have a number of different KelTecs and they are a little rough but they always go bang when I pull the trigger.

This is my last post in this thread.

I think gym and kokapelli both make some very valid observations. When something cost less it is important why. Is it because of changes or shortcuts in aesthetic or non-critical areas or is it simply cheaply thrown together? Is it designed to be reliable for 20,000 rounds, or for 5,000? A life saving device could be engineered to work exactly once - but it had better work that one time it is called upon.

I know the PF9's I had one was a problem. Never owned a LC9 and for my personal reasons. First I'm a lefty and I hate the fact it has a safety and only on one side, completely no need for a safety. Safeties cause issues, they are too small when your fine motor skills depart. I know you don't need to use it, but what if it engages and you don't know it, your done. Second issue is the magazine safety. The gun will not shoot without the magazine in place. Why the hell would Ruger put this device in this gun when all their other guns do not have this device. I chose the Beretta Nano a much better built gun without all the nonsense, but that's my choice. There are no levers or safeties to deal with or anything else for that matter. Very clean pistol and absolutely nothing to get snagged on. Now if these are your only two choices and nothing else, I would chose the PF9 just for the facts of what I stated above. Kel-Tec's are hit or miss but they have gotten better.

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I'd reply to this post and say there are some personal viewpoints/bias vs actual facts.

Proper Training will negate the issues of the manual safety, as it has been used in other handguns (and long guns) for decades both by civilians and LE/Military.

The mag disconnect safety is a choice by Ruger themselves, but its also employed in other pistols like Smith and Wesson's M&P's. There is a reason for it, which I won't go into here. Its offered as an added safety layer but can be removed (or bought without it if you choose for the M&P).

Lastly, Keltec has not gotten much better. Their CS is great, but some of their products continue to have some of its issues.

As far as the original question of PF9/LC9, I've owned both and recommend the LC9 by far. It is worth the $100 difference in quality alone.

chaddy said:

I'm looking at these two guns for iwb. What's the better one is the ruger worth the extra 100$?

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Yes.

I agree with Pablo. The 100 is worth it. I personally don't like the lc9, but of the two. I would choose ruger any day. All the keltecs I've worked on, felt like a cheap air soft pistol. P11, p32 and some other model 9mm.

Let us know what you decide.

I've never fired the LC9. My every day carry gun is a PF9. It works every time I pull the trigger, and I love how small and light it is. Hard to think of a gun I'd rather carry, at any price.

I saw a couple people who had an issue with the magazine disconnect safety on the LC9. It can be easily removed, and easily replaced if you want to sell the gun.