Need help buying a 308 rifle

Acera said:

Remember that you are also talking about two different calibers. The .308 is not the same as a 7.62 NATO round. The civilian round is a higher pressure round and head-spaces differently. Generally you can safely fire a 7.62 in a .308 just not the other way around.

Some semi-auto makers make and market their rifles to fire both. Something to consider when looking.

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You're completely wrong. Even if you were thinking about 5.56/.223, you'd still be wrong. It's safe to shoot .223 in a rifle chambered for 5.56, but not the other way around for those high pressure reasons you cited.

It's no issue whatsoever for .308/ 7.62.

The 223/5.56 as well as 7.62X51/308 are both completely interchangeable.

From your description a Tikka comes closest to your needs. It is the lightest rifle you will buy for under $1,000. They come with 3 round magazines, but 5 round magazines are available. The Ruger Gunsite is another possibblity, but it is a heavy son of a gun, and you can buy 2 Tikkas for the price. The Tikka will likely be among the most accurate rifles you will buy too.

Personally I'd forget about the DBM requirement. You are eliminating a lot of good choices just to include a useless feature. Not any advantage at all on a bolt rifle.

I won't own anything made by dpms, bushmaster or any or sub par company. I had a bushmaster I had to use a hammer and plastic punch to take it a part, after that I only buy quality. That's the point of this thread. I'm going to look up some things you guys have suggested and see what I like.

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Wow, I've owned both and never had any issues like that the Bushmaster and DPMS rifles I have owned shot great and had no issues. If you really want quality in an AR-10 then this is the one I sold my DPMS AR-10 for. http://www.fd-defense.com/

FD308, Now this is an outstanding AR-10 that is extremely accurate but get your big wallet out, I have about 5K in this one with the optic.

The major downside to the FNAR is cleaning. Taking it down and getting the bolt out is not trivial.

I've never had a malfunction but the thought of taking it fully down in the field scares the bejeezus out of me due to all the small parts that must come out.

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I agree with this, but I don't find the FNAR terribly difficult to strip and clean. Sure, there are many rifles that are easier, and it has to be an understood compromise. For me, 2-3 MOE from a CETME is not acceptable when I can get a rifle that will do 1 or less consistently. Folks have different needs, and it's great that we have so many choices.

Currently the choices for a semi auto in 308 run thus...

M1a
AR10/SR762
FN/FAL
HK 91 (if you can find one)
HK 91 clones
CETME
Saiga 308
Browning BAR (sporter rifle version)
Winchester 100 (sporting rifle)
Remington 742/74/7400 (sporting rifle)

I've owned all of the above except for the Browning BAR. I currently own a M1a, Saiga 308, SR762 and a Winchester 100

jmr40 said:

The 223/5.56 as well as 7.62X51/308 are both completely interchangeable.

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Without wishing to derail the thread...

I had heard that the 7.62x51/308 switching is no big issue.

But are you saying that shooting lots of 5.56 in a 223 chamber is a good idea?

Been shooting 308/762x51 ammo in my 308/762x51 rifles for 45 years with zero problems. Tell me again why I cannot do this???? chris3

Sock Puppet said:

I agree with this, but I don't find the FNAR terribly difficult to strip and clean. Sure, there are many rifles that are easier, and it has to be an understood compromise. For me, 2-3 MOE from a CETME is not acceptable when I can get a rifle that will do 1 or less consistently. Folks have different needs, and it's great that we have so many choices.

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Compared to an AR.. Ak.. H&K G3.. SCAR.. or even any belt fed I own... compared to any other centerfire semi-auto platform I own, it's far more complex. Anything that involves punches and screwdrivers and levers and sleeves and stuff is complicated.

While THR has rules against the "SHTF" type threads, if anything ever DID happen, the FN-AR would be the LAST rifle I would pick up out of the safe to take with me. I can't stake my life on something that has a 7 minute dis-assembly process, on a bench, with the correct tools at hand, and a half dozen small parts to lose (some of which are under spring tension).

Heck, right in the owners manual it says, essentially, "stop here, and send the rifle in every 2500 rounds to the factory for detailed cleaning and inspection."

Don't get me wrong, it is a fantastic rifle, extremely accurate, and I love shooting it. But the complexity of it is a turn off, from an "end of days" perspective.

Granted, not everyone looks at things that way, or cares, but there's another concern for long-term thinkers. Spare parts for my grand children. If something breaks, will FN still be around? Will spare parts even exist? Or will it become a 7 pound broken-down gun that's not pretty enough to use as a wall hanger?

*IF* you already have a reliable, great shooting 7.62 and want something that is highly accurate and has rapid second-third-fourth-twentieth-shot followup times , the FNAR is a great rifle to add to a collection. But I don't envision it ever serving a role as "primary" battle rifle, due to the above concerns.

While I personally don't like them, that's one of the major advantages of the AR-10 platform. Every part in them is user-serviceable without armorer training, and supplies 100 years from now are unquestionably going to be there (if society still stands, they'll still be in production; if not, there'll be tons of spares out there in circulation). That platform is not "going away".

The CETME / PTR-91 loses some points there, mainly because the *barrel* assemblies are a real nightmare to replace. It can be done, but not without a hydraulic press for the pins. The AR-10 wins hands down there as you can swap the barrel with a vice and the suitable wrench.

The SAIGA 308 route .. meh. It'll put rounds downrange but not with the same precision as the others.

ball3006 said:

Been shooting 308/762x51 ammo in my 308/762x51 rifles for 45 years with zero problems. Tell me again why I cannot do this???? chris3

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There is no problem doing it.

A lot of the Urban Legend stems from guys buying military surplus 7.62 over the last dozen or so years, and having bolts lock up tight in a precious bolt gun. The first time you have to force a bolt open on an expensive R700 or other platform, causes the person to tell everyone they meet that 7.62 can't be run in a rifle that's chambered in 308.

Which is bull. The surplus ammunition they are shooting wasn't stored very well (no temperature control) so the gunpowder had degraded and made the rounds "hotter" than they really should be.

OR (more often) the brass is low quality and doesn't "rebound" after the pressure drops causing the casing to become stuck.

ball30-06:

Here is my theory.....................

The reason is because the internet popped up not too long ago and mis information pertaining to 7.62x51mm and 308 Winchester grew into false facts.
Example= How the government measured chamber pressure compared to how SAMMI measures it. ( This example alone has produced the most confusion over the topic than any one other)

My favorite has always been the following: You will bend your op-rod if you shoot factory 308 hunting loads thru your M1A.

The good news is that most of the nonsense has been rectified, and with a little research, anyone can find it via the same internet.

You and I both were shooting 7.62x51mm and 308 thru rifles long before the internet, and already knew the score.

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To the OP and others interested.
There is an easy way to find out as to what rifle will shoot what.
Simply contact the company that makes the firearm one is interested in and ask them. A little time on the phone with a knowledgable rep from any company should be able to tell you what is recommended and what is not recommended.

According to their website, and to the folks who make them....... the PTR91 has a rather long list of 7.62x51mm ammunition that they do not recommend for use thru their PTR91 rifles.v
This information may or may not be out of date,(they changed their website around since I looked last).... but might be worth the time to find out before you buy one.

FWIW......... SAI and Ruger told me on the phone that their respective M1A Socom/Scout and SR762 rifles will reliably and safely shoot either.....provided that the ammunition used is of decent quality.

Here is an example of Fulton Armory's version of an M14 EBR RI
http://www.fulton-armory.com/fultonarmoryusriflecal762mmm14-1-1-1-1-1-2.aspx

The above closely resembles what I have used at work in the past. Other than cost, there are disadvantages that I have found, but this does not pertain to Fulton Armory's version.

I love my GSR and I knew from the first time I saw it that I would own one. It replaced every other bolt gun that I had. I don't care what anyone else says. I love that rifle and would recommend one to anybody.

$2500 will get you into just about any .308 out there. Lots of choices.

Having gone through this exercise myself, the M1A wins hands down for a semi. Read Boston's Gun Bible for an in depth comparison of all of the .308 semi battle rifles and you'll most likely come up with the M1A or Fn Fal for your choice.

For bolt rifles, a controlled round feed Mauser type action will give you the best service. Winchester Mod. 70, Ruger 77 or GSR, CZ 550, or the Zaztava Mod. 70 models should be the first ones to look at. For bolt rifles, I own a Win. Model 70 and a Gunsite Ruger and am very pleased with both.

That said, the Kel Tec RFB is the most fun, handy, and excellent performing .308 I own. None of the internet hype about how bad they are has been true with mine. 500 rounds through it so far with zero issues. Many of these are rapid fire 20 round jaunts just for grins. Friends are constantly asking to shoot this rifle. Always gathers a crowd at the range. For a left handed shooter, even better.

The RFB really shines when used with a suppressor. I have one of the early models. I had a catastrophic gas block failure on the second round fired out of the gun. They promptly fixed it and I have had no issues since. I will also add that even though I like the RFB I would not buy the RFB as my one and only 308 rifle.

I've had DPMS and RRA 308's with no problems. I'm looking at POF for my next 308. I just can't decide if I want a 20" or 16".
I agree with FSJeeper that $2500 will get you a lot of 308 options.

TIMC, agreed on not owning the RFB as the only or the go to semi .308. Too new to know the long term reliability. They sure are fun though and work well on the hogs.

M1's are my go to rifle, but the Saiga AK47 in .308 and other Russian variants out there for a third of the price of an M1A should take some serious consideration also. Probably the best semi auto .308 bang for the buck hands down with no close competition.

Which suppressor is that and how is it working for you? That is my next purchase and would like some advice.

TIMC, agreed on not owning the RFB as the only or the go to semi .308. Too new to know the long term reliability. They sure are fun though and work well on the hogs.

Which suppressor is that and how is it working for you? That is my next purchase and would like some advice.

Agreed, the RFB is a fun rifle! My advice on suppressors is do not scrimp on quality to save a few bucks. If you are going to all that trouble and time get top of the line, you will appreciate it more in the long run.
The suppressor on the RFB is a Thunderbeast Arms 30P1. It is probably the best on the market right now as far as POI change. I have had no issues with it. Where it really shines is when shooting my Savage Hog hunter in .308 with 220 grain subsonic rounds, sounds like a pellet gun.

Since you already have the ar 15 and just want to be able to reach out and touch. You'll get far better performance per dollar with a bolt rifle. For example the savage le series or ??10?? Sorry forgot the name. 20 bull barrel, geat accuracy.

Depending on how far is far, any quality hunting rifle for $800. For $1200-$1500 you can probably max out the cartridges potential.

Don't forget about all the extra weight w/the ar 308. So for the price of an entry level ar 308 or m1 scout you can get a super nice bolt and use every dollar saved to get enough scope to maximize its potential.


So, what distance are you looking for? How much accuracy do you want?

a FAL meets all those requirements and you can get a heavy scope rail mount from DSA... I'd go to Falfiles and chat with some of the guys, look for a guy named Gunplumber and ask him to set you up with a reliable setup from good surplus parts...

the cleaning beats anything else mentioned here hands down. Accuracy wise they can hit deer sized target in the vitals at 400 yards reliably and that's all any real life scenario calls for.

parts? my goodness there will be piles of them for the next 200 years since dozens of countries use or used it as their primary battle rifle for decades.

Awesome rifle in every way- they are the original "black rifle" and truly a battle proven rifle

No love for the Vepr? They cost a little more than the Saiga, but they're a heckuva lot more accurate because of the stiffer receiver and (IMO) better quality barrels. I've shot them several times and been pretty impressed with them.

I'd also give a look to the PSL. Most will be chambered for x54R, but you can find them in .308.