jerkface11
Member
Except that they got the Thompsons for free. So yeah they had no cost.
2 Tommy Guns swapped for 88 Bushmasters
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NeuseRvrRat
Member
We could argue cost of opportunity all day, but the fact is that they traded something that had little or no practical value to the police department for something that had real tangible value to the police department. And it wasn't a few guns, that's 44 guns for 1 gun, seems that they got a good deal, just as good a deal as they would have gotten if they had sold for cash and purchased stuff they needed with that cash.
I'm all for that, so long as they use the bushmasters properly.
AethelstanAegen
Member
NeuseRvrRat's point is not that it wasn't a good course of action but simply that it is technically not correct to say that it was at no cost to the department or taxpayers.
jerkface11
Member
The taxpayers didn't even pay for the thompsons so they weren't even out the couple hundred bucks the things cost in the 20's.
Double_J
Member
I think that was a good trade, the department was able to get enough rifles to supplement the officers patrol car load-out and they got rid of two items they did not know they had, and had very little use for. I personally would rather have the two vintage guns, but thinking like a law enforcement agency the newer platform would be a better tool. Think of it in terms of boots/bullets on the ground, 2 old, heavy, underpowered sub-machine guns or 88 modern, light rifles?
We can also talk about opportunity cost, cost to taxpayers, etc. but the case is that they were payed for by a large company and donated years ago. This means that the local government did not have to come up with any money. They were also forgotten about, and had very little use other than sitting in a vault somewhere. The road officers would rather have gear that can be used vs. have something sitting in a vault collecting dust. The county just traded two items that had very little use for 88 items that have much more use. That is how the economy works, you trade something you have for something that you need that is possessed by someone else. One or two collectors will now be able to use/show off a piece of american history vs. have them stay hidden from the view of the people.
We can also talk about opportunity cost, cost to taxpayers, etc. but the case is that they were payed for by a large company and donated years ago. This means that the local government did not have to come up with any money. They were also forgotten about, and had very little use other than sitting in a vault somewhere. The road officers would rather have gear that can be used vs. have something sitting in a vault collecting dust. The county just traded two items that had very little use for 88 items that have much more use. That is how the economy works, you trade something you have for something that you need that is possessed by someone else. One or two collectors will now be able to use/show off a piece of american history vs. have them stay hidden from the view of the people.
caribou
Member
The fact is, .45 is a great policeing round in an urban environment, hitting perps , but not over penatrateing and endangering other citizens on the other side of wall.
Its not a war and over penatration is a huge risk in a police situation, as cpollateral damage is totally unacceptable.
Now every shot can kill multipull folks and the perp.
.45 can shoot through men and stop in a wall, .223 and ss109's can shoot through schools.....
Its not a war and over penatration is a huge risk in a police situation, as cpollateral damage is totally unacceptable.
Now every shot can kill multipull folks and the perp.
.45 can shoot through men and stop in a wall, .223 and ss109's can shoot through schools.....
Can you give any examples of a .223 going through a person, then through a wall, and killing someone on the other side? Preferably something where the round was a hollow point or other appropriate anti personnel round.
caribou
Member
17 years ago a kid down the road was shot by his neighbors in the back (hes OK now) after the neigbor discharged the gun in his home, aimed at and through his refrigerator, though the wall, through the neighbors wall, through a bathroom cabinet and ito Eric. That was a .222, pretty close to .223 in performance in my book. patched em up and he flew out.
I dont know if it was a holow point or not......are hollow points leagl for police work?
about 2 months ago a drunk went nuts with a gun here in Noorvik and the AST shot him when he came out, three times (and he is Emensly Fat) through him, two walls and through both walls of the neighbors house, all 3 shots, we looked at the otsides, in and out. Thankfully no one was injured, and I saw that myself too.....googgle is at yer fingertips...he was useing a .223 and penatrating houses, and since we had to cordon them off, we also got to check on the neighbors and the results ....
Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2013/10/25/3142681/troopers-in-standoff-with-40-year.html#storylink=cpy
We police ourselfs here in this village and were trained (firedept, S&R, Village council) to use #12 shot in shotguns for such activitys that deem it nessesarry untill the AlaskaState Trooper arrives in 3-24 hours later. The fine shot has all the policing penatration needed and the lack of penatration to keep those who are on the other side of the wall safe. Its not war, its Policing and dealing with Citizens with Rights.....prehaps our Police have blurred lines on what that encompasses now.
I dont know if it was a holow point or not......are hollow points leagl for police work?
about 2 months ago a drunk went nuts with a gun here in Noorvik and the AST shot him when he came out, three times (and he is Emensly Fat) through him, two walls and through both walls of the neighbors house, all 3 shots, we looked at the otsides, in and out. Thankfully no one was injured, and I saw that myself too.....googgle is at yer fingertips...he was useing a .223 and penatrating houses, and since we had to cordon them off, we also got to check on the neighbors and the results ....
Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2013/10/25/3142681/troopers-in-standoff-with-40-year.html#storylink=cpy
We police ourselfs here in this village and were trained (firedept, S&R, Village council) to use #12 shot in shotguns for such activitys that deem it nessesarry untill the AlaskaState Trooper arrives in 3-24 hours later. The fine shot has all the policing penatration needed and the lack of penatration to keep those who are on the other side of the wall safe. Its not war, its Policing and dealing with Citizens with Rights.....prehaps our Police have blurred lines on what that encompasses now.
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caribou, over-penetration is a risk with any viable SD/LEO round. And .223 mitigates that risk more than many pistol-caliber rounds. http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html Its flatter trajectory does perhaps increase the range at which it is likely to still be airborne, if you're in open country.
caribou
Member
Well ATL, I know theres frangable munitions for such too, so it would depend on what ammo is procured and what the situation calls for.
There was a time when .45's and .38's were the side arms to shotguns and rifles were for special precision work, often with specially trained officers.
If .223 isnt a big overpenatrator, then its a good choice. Im just going by what i saw, and learned in violent crisis managment training and that may not be average at all.
There was a time when .45's and .38's were the side arms to shotguns and rifles were for special precision work, often with specially trained officers.
If .223 isnt a big overpenatrator, then its a good choice. Im just going by what i saw, and learned in violent crisis managment training and that may not be average at all.
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