Love Glocks, hate the company

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The "Perfection" mantra from the company, the smirkiness of Gaston, the drab look of the pistol and the polymer frame kept me more than arms length from the Glock for way too many years.

But they were hard to ignore as they were widely adopted by law enforcement, reports of durability and ease of use pored in, and more and more began showing up at the range. Also, I was getting interested in the 40S&W caliber. Finally firing the Glock and the caliber convinced me to jump on a sale G22 LE trade-in, a Gen 2. Next came a new Gen 4 G23, then a used Gen 3 G27. All work well and are excellent for their intended purpose.

It's kinda like lugging around a heavy old drill for years then finally springing for a new drill with a lightweight 19.2V lithium-ion battery. Right away you appreciate the power and durability in a lightweight package. Is it perfect, is it the best you can get? Maybe not, but it sure works well! And if it bounces off your truck or gets stolen ... odds are you'll get another.
 
Unless a company does something that crosses my line of ethics I won't deny them business for reasons the OP stated. If a gunmaker produces something that enables me to put the most lead in the smallest space in the shortest amount of time, it will get my dollars regardless of any petty issues with design or manufacturing.
 
I understand the sentiment, to do one thing and to do it well. That does make a lot of sense, but HK is able to turn out rifles, that have gained a following in the AR market, as well as S&W and RRA who have been able to become a solid manufacturer of ARs as well as their flagship lines of pistols.

Because of those companies innovations they were able to establish themselves as versatile in several markets, not one.

Imagine saying today S&W should stick to revolvers, or that HK has no business making pistols, because the G3 was what they made best...

And as for the 380 being innovative? They've been sitting on 380 auto pistols for a very long time, and only selling them internationally. I find it ridiculous they support calibers like 357 sig, 10mm, 45 GAP, but didnt choose to import the 380 until recently. Their real innovation was 45 GAP which fell flat on it's face.
I get that some of you wanted a glock in 380, and if I wanted a 380, you bet I'd buy a glock 42, too.

Tirod: I am not a LEO, but wouldn't it make sense for an officer to be able to use his duty ammo (assuming 9mm, not .40) in a backup pistol?
Not to mention, compared to other 380 pistols on the market, the G42 is a bit bigger than most, no? Bigger package than LCP or Keltec. If im going to carry another glock, why wouldnt I just opt for the 26?

As for the pistol caliber carbine? Those ugly Keltec Sub2000 sell like hotcakes. Does it have a real military or police application? Not likely, but remember the majority of glocks sales are to CIVILIANS, not the military, and we do a hell of a lot ore plinking than clearing rooms.

What would I like to see personally? I'd like to see glock step up to the plate and finally make a glock polymer AR15 lower receiver, with steel inserts, or even an ultra lightweight ar15 using more of their polymer in non essential areas.

Honestly, It would be ridiculous to suggest that a massive company like Glock couldn't establish themselves as a maker of quality parts for rifles, even in the competitive AR15 market, a bunch of folks with more money and tacticool accessories than common sense.
 
Dr.Zubrato said:
Honestly, It would be ridiculous to suggest that a massive company like Glock couldn't establish themselves as a maker of quality parts for rifles, even in the competitive AR15 market, a bunch of folks with more money and tacticool accessories than common sense.
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Glock is not keeping up with the demand on their current products. Why divert resources to something unknown and probably less profitable? That would be like Ford changing over a couple of F-150 lines to produce light aircraft - they could do it, but it's probably better not to.
 
I'm in the anti-camp. The g1-3 guns felt terrible in my hand. No second strike pushes me away a bit, as does the lack of an external safety. I did want to like glock but they never made anything that fit my criteria. Does there gun work-obviously so. Has it fundamentally changed in 20years, no. Apply this to...any other segment of the weapons market. Shotguns-the pump is utterly reliable and has seen few fundamental changes in nearly a century. Is rifle sights and a short barrel innovation? In rifles, ARs are the sporting rifle for a few decades...no major changes. 1911, no changes. Revolver the pug-1change. In hunting rifles...still using Mauser type bolts, Winchester or marlin levers, a few colt pump derivatives...so you guys want to complain about innovation. Innovation in the weapons market is centered around attachable gadgets and pocket guns. Glock has rails for gadgets, the baby flocks for pocket guns and now a 380 to compete with the ruger/keltec/shield/bond... Yes they are late to the party as they have always been, but in 2 years even fanboy hordes will be screaming that the 42 is the greatest 380 around.

For carbines, the market is open. They should consider jumping in, but if they can't simply put a stock on a g17 or g22 and stick a barrel way out the front then they should just stay away. Same goes for everybody else. Hi point made it happen. Taurus made it happen. Ruger can make it happen but they don't. What's next, the cry that glock sucks because they haven't entered the tactical pump shotgun world?
 
Well, Gen 4 Glocks finally fit my hand. Wouldn't touch gen 2 or 3's (Never did try a 1) but I have (and love) a Gen 4, looking at probably getting another down the road (well, probably 2 more); so in my mind they did at least one thing right.
 
I find it ridiculous they support calibers like 357 sig, 10mm, 45 GAP, but didnt choose to import the 380 until recently.
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Their 380s did not make enough points to be imported. Now that they are actually producing guns in the US they skip the import laws.. It's not about what's "cooler", just our legal quagmires...
 
Honestly, It would be ridiculous to suggest that a massive company like Glock couldn't establish themselves as a maker of quality parts for rifles, even in the competitive AR15 market, a bunch of folks with more money and tacticool accessories than common sense.
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The reason they stick to making Glocks is because they're the only company that can do it, so they can charge a high margin. And there's plenty of demand, yet. They're too busy paying off lobbyists, lawyers, and bureaucrats and stashing wads of cash in offshore accounts to worry about investing massive capital to enter a competitive, low-margin market and exposing their enormous wealth to additional lawsuits, government regulation/interference, and whimsical market forces in a pathetic attempt to pick up a few pennies. It seems to me that when you find a cash cow that fat, you milk it for what it's worth. And you will have to put a bit of time and effort and money into fending off the parasites and scoring lucrative government contracts. Glock employs a heck of a lot more sales reps, lawyers, and lobbyists than it does firearms designers. Their business at hand is to keep the rails greased and to protect their market position and assets.

I don't know anything about this stuff, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. :)
 
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Dr.Zubrato said:
I find it ridiculous they support calibers like 357 sig, 10mm, 45 GAP, but didnt choose to import the 380 until recently.
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Blame our dumb import laws for the G25 and G28 never making it here, not Glock. Glock had to build a plant here in the U.S. in order for the G42 to make it into civilian hands (and I've heard reports of LEO not even being able to get a G25/G28 here for duty use)

Same goes for a "would be" single stack 9mm

Here's the point system they have to go by to import guns: http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-5330-5.pdf

A Glock 26 barely passes, right at 75 points. Cut that down to a single stack 9mm and you drop below the threshold (because it would be several ounces lighter). A lot of other countries don't allow civilians to own 9mm, so who can blame them for not making one before? It wouldn't have been able to be sold or imported to enough places to justify making it

Fortunately a single stack 9mm is now possible since it could be made here
 
In keeping with the simplistic side of me, I appreciate the tool (gun) they make and I'm not worried about the gun they don't make. If it is really worthwhile and marketable someone will make it.
 
Glocks, to me, are like the Pittsburgh Steelers. Its hard not to like the team but the fans are beyond annoying.
 
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I've been listening to the same sermon as VooDoo. I didn't even think I wanted or needed a .380. Had traded a Bersa years ago. love Ruger's company service and own a pile of them, except the LCP.. One of the biggest sellers in the country. The metal .380's are too heavy for me. Might as well be carrying a larger caliber polymer. Had a chance to shoot a glock 42 at the same time as a LCP and a Kel-tec. It's pro vs. high school in a comparison. Apples and oranges.. I'm telling ya, Glock has found a niche in the gun market with the 42 if there was any left to find. My previous Glock purchase was a G23 in 1994 and considered it one of the best gun purchases I've made for best "tool for the job." Hundreds (ashamed to say) of other guns have come and gone in my safe as 20 years have passed.
Innovation is a slippery slope in the world of us fickle buyers. A seriously bad move and reputation may or may not recover. It's like an otherwise honest guy telling one bad lie that everyone knows about. A cornerstone of the community in the gun world of polymers has to keep stability. If Glock is doing a 9mm single stack ( I don't know if that is for sure or all speculation.. I didn't get the memo..) but the 9mm market looks a lot more saturated, so I thought Glock made the smarter move with the G42 production first.
I haven't had to use them, but I have heard a couple of horror stories with Glock customer service. Of course, you always hear the bad stuff. If somewhat true, I would rather see innovation in customer service. Ruger gets all A+ in my book . I don't want to sully Glocks service if not true..because i am speaking without experience there. They may be a 5 star. Someone please set me straight on that.
The above may be the biggest point of why Glock is doing well. Their innovation is just at the level to keep customer service from being overwhelmed with new products with major problems.
I do like the points the original poster made with the start of this thread. Excellent topic to talk about. Customers need to give a company feedback.
 
I'm a Glock guy through and through, and to some extent I agree that they haven't really been setting any records lately for innovative products.

However, I can kind of see why they came out with the G42 as a 380, mainly because I'm sure Glock wanted a piece of the 380 market as little 380's have been hugely popular in the past several years.

That's going to cause more and more to clamour for a 9mm version, which will happen I'm sure, but whether it will remain the exact same size as the G42 is unknown, it will likely have to be beefed up just a little to handle the larger 9x19.
 
ultratec1 said:
I use to hate Glocks, with an utter passion. Then one day I shot one and realized that it was just what it was designed as..... a combat handgun. Since then I now have a 17L, 21 and a 20. The thing that I will complain about when it comes to Glock is the fact that they can not get factory barrels to shoot worth a crap and the unsupported barrels are completely un-sat. Other than that, I can get spare parts as easy if not easier then buying a bag of oranges.
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You must have a bad barrel. Mine shoots very well.
 
For how many years have customers been begging for a glock oem carbine, or a platform in 223 rem, or a single stack 9mm? Instead we get Gen4 recalls, 45 GAP, worse extractor designs, and a .380 no one asked for.
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Kind of curious as to how many people have actually sent Glock an email or given them a call saying something along the lines of "Just wanted to contact you guys and let you know what I'd be interested in seeing you produce". My money is that it's a very small number.
 
Talked to a Glock rep today at the NRA convention in Indy. He told me they are selling the G42's as fast as they can make them. So much for nobody wanting one.
 
tarosean said:
Their 380s did not make enough points to be imported. Now that they are actually producing guns in the US they skip the import laws.. It's not about what's "cooler", just our legal quagmires...
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Finally, someone with some sense showed up in this thread. The OP was possibly the most idiotic post I've read on this forum.
 
SDGlock23 said:
I'm a Glock guy through and through, and to some extent I agree that they haven't really been setting any records lately for innovative products.
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You don't need to be innovative when you sell every unit you make, and have difficulty keeping up with demand as it is.
 
I consider Glocks as tools that send bullets downrange like hammers that drive nails. Glocks may not be fancy or have full ambi controls etc. but do the intended job well enough like your basic hammer.

I don't own just one hammer as I have several hammers for different applications including framing, finishing and roofing nail guns. I don't own just Glocks either and have other brand pistols for different applications.

As far as the company, here's my take. Even though the company or competitors make newer/fancier hammers, the company won't stop making the basic hammers as long as customers keep buying them.
 
Gaston Glock follows one of the paradigms that Cisco Systems uses - Ruthless Execution. And he does it very well. He does innovate, but doesn't use the "whiz bang" method of product development.

Glocks aren't for 100% of the shooting public. I, for one, don't like the grip, because most of them are double stack pistols. And double stacks, no matter who makes them, don't fit my hands.

People line up to buy Glock's products. They move out of dealer's doors on a regular basis. And because of the volume they sell, Glock will likely have more complaints about whatever issue; quality, ergonomics, felt recoil, or accuracy. No one makes a perfect handgun.

I've fired a number of different models, and I owned a Model 27. It functioned flawlessly, with a variety of different ammo. The problem? It just didn't fit my hand, no matter what type of extensions I used.

As a tool, compare it to the Plumb hammer. Not especially attractive, but it does drive nails.
 
I think they're running very very late to the single stack 9mm party - but more the better for the companies that have been selling their slim nines for the past few years.
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And look what happened to the Shield and the XDS; recalls. I would prefer Glock take their time and get it right rather then rush a gun to the market just because everyone else is doing it.
 
Do you think Glock's mis-steps as a company have put enough of a dent in their image of Perfection for you to consider other similar polymer wonder pistols?
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A gun is neither a fashion statement nor a social statement. It's a tool. If the tool works for me and the company that makes it isn't doing anything that is clearly illegal or unethical (which is a relative notion), then I buy it. If the tool or the company fails that simple test, then I don't. Glock pistols fit my bio-mechanical needs like no other pistol, and the corporate body that makes them is not actively engaged in Doing Bad Things. Ergo, I buy them.

If there was serious competition in the space (similar grip angle/dimensions), I'd consider that pistol on its merits just as I consider Glocks on theirs. In fact, I'd love a hammer fired gun with a Glock grip, just because I prefer hammer fired guns....
 
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