Longhorn 76
Member
Maybe you are thinking about a coral snake, and not a copperhead?
Copperhead meets Glock 27.
- Thread starter marano35
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Copperheads are probably the least toxic of North American vipers and almost never lethal. Rarely do they cause the damage pictured in the previous post. Copperheads... as do most venomous snakes... inject minimal venom when biting for self defense. And contrary to wild rumors, all snakes will give you room if you let them and I find no sensible reason for killing them. As GLOOB said, they hold down disease carrying rodents and for that one you kill you can most likely throw a rock in several directions and cover dozens more. And definitely, my ears and the cost of the shell aren't worth killing an animal that intends me no harm.
We had a four page discussion three years ago about WHY people kill snakes. It really just boils down to a personal thing.
We had a four page discussion three years ago about WHY people kill snakes. It really just boils down to a personal thing.
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Corals have fangs but they are different than all the pit vipers in America. They do not inject venom like they others. They do not have hallow fangs like the others. They bite and the venom drips down from the outside of the fang
Gloob, i do agree with you about taking ear damage serious though. When at the hunting camp or in the country i usually keep a pair of ear plugs in my pocket. I always have a couple of.them in my tackle box when fishing. Also, when fishing and romping through the woods i usually have a 22lr revolver instead of a centerfire
InkEd
Member
Good shot.
gun_with_a_view
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Copperhead "venom sacks are not attached to the fangs but are adjacent to the teeth, permeating the puncture holes as the snake latches onto a victim".
http://www.snake-removal.com/coral.html
I've often wondered if I would have the cahones to grab one of those suckers and rip it off to limit the quantity of venom delivered.
There is a problem developing with the availability of coral snake anti-venom:
http://www.oriannesociety.org/blog/coral-snake-antivenom
http://www.snake-removal.com/coral.html
I've often wondered if I would have the cahones to grab one of those suckers and rip it off to limit the quantity of venom delivered.
There is a problem developing with the availability of coral snake anti-venom:
http://www.oriannesociety.org/blog/coral-snake-antivenom
Hunter2011
Member
I have no problem with killing of a copperhead snake. They are poisonous and they can bite, but I don't see them as much different than bees. I don't kill bees, either. Now, mosquitoes? Sure, I'll go out of my way to swat a mosquito.
Sorry but huh??
They are way different than bees. Lots of people get stinged by bees. You will only die if you are allergic to bees. Most people are not allergic to bees. But every person on earth I know is in fact allergic to snake poison... Sorry mate, but if I see a snake I will have to kill it, because that very same snake can bite me the next time I might not see it and step close to it. Just remember, it is hiding most of the time so they are not so easy to spot. To take a shot while being outside in mother nature is far less noise in your ears than shooting in your house in a self defense scenario. I will rather take the shot than the venom thank you very much.
Gloob, my lad, you are a danger to others who read here. You badly need a class in snakes.
The copperhead, of which there are about four subspecies, is a member of the genus Agkistrodon, which also includes the water moccasin/cottonmouth. In fact, young moccasins much resemble copperheads in appearance, before they begin to turn dark.
Books that you might consult are the Naval medical manual for physicians treating snakebite worldwide, and available from the Govt. Printing Office. I believe it's still in print.
Another is, "U.S. Guide to Venomous Snakes and their Mimics", by Scott Shupe. And most states have snake pamphlets that advise you about snakes in that region. These are often free.
Generally, a copperhead bite will not kill a healthy adult, although risks may be greater for the very young and the old, or those with infirmities. However, the bite is described as extremely painful, and necrosis (death) of tissue is common, with flesh sloughing off. There can be permanent numbness in an affected limb or hand. Swelling may be serious, if not as bad as that from a bite by any of the various rattlesnakes.
Copperheads have rotating fangs like other pit vipers, and like them also target their victims with facial pits that are highly heat sensitive. They can strike effectively in the dark.
There are other snakes that have a venom delivery system such as you describe, but they still have fangs. Some are rear-fanged, as with some garter snakes that can make you pretty sick if they get in a good bite. Others include the elapid snakes, the best known of which are the cobras and kraits and mambas. Venom runs down a groove in the tooth rather than from hypodermic-like viper fangs. But it is effectively injected and is very often lethal. Of the rear-fanged snakes, the Boomslang (D. typus and the Bird Snake ( Thelotornis kirtlandi) may be the most toxic. It takes about 1.5mg of Boomslang venom to kill a healthy adult man weighing about 150 pounds. By contrast, it takes about 15-20 mg of cobra venom, depending on the species. The Cape/yellow cobra is more toxic than the Egyptian cobra, Naja haje. I'd have to look up the scientific name for the Cape species. The other is widespread across sub-Saharan Africa, not limited to Egypt, despite the name.
And some cobras can project venom through holes in the fangs that let them hit you in the eye to at least ten or more feet. I don't know that I've ever read just how far one can reach, but they are very accurate. These can also bite conventionally, and are very potent. The largest spitter is probably Ashe's Large Brown Spitting Cobra, Naja ashei, from Kenya.
I hope that you are never bitten by a copperhead. My son shot one off his fence just last week with a pellet gun and his wife finished it with a hoe. It was about two feet long.
A copperhead bite from any of the four or so known subspecies is a medical emergency. And cost for treating snakebites in a hospital today, where anti-venin is employed, can exceed $250, 000. Hardly a joking matter. And one author who has been bitten by both a copperhead and by more dangerous species, wrote that he actually suffered more pain from the copperhead than from more dangerous bites from rattlesnakes!
If you are fortunate enough to find a copy (it was printed in the 1960's), "Venomous Reptiles", by Minton and Minton is very informative reading and gives projected levels of envenomation likely to result in human deaths, for many snake species. Search Amazon, etc. under the senior author's name, Dr. Sherman A. Minton, Jr. His co-author was his wife, Madge Minton.
The copperhead, of which there are about four subspecies, is a member of the genus Agkistrodon, which also includes the water moccasin/cottonmouth. In fact, young moccasins much resemble copperheads in appearance, before they begin to turn dark.
Books that you might consult are the Naval medical manual for physicians treating snakebite worldwide, and available from the Govt. Printing Office. I believe it's still in print.
Another is, "U.S. Guide to Venomous Snakes and their Mimics", by Scott Shupe. And most states have snake pamphlets that advise you about snakes in that region. These are often free.
Generally, a copperhead bite will not kill a healthy adult, although risks may be greater for the very young and the old, or those with infirmities. However, the bite is described as extremely painful, and necrosis (death) of tissue is common, with flesh sloughing off. There can be permanent numbness in an affected limb or hand. Swelling may be serious, if not as bad as that from a bite by any of the various rattlesnakes.
Copperheads have rotating fangs like other pit vipers, and like them also target their victims with facial pits that are highly heat sensitive. They can strike effectively in the dark.
There are other snakes that have a venom delivery system such as you describe, but they still have fangs. Some are rear-fanged, as with some garter snakes that can make you pretty sick if they get in a good bite. Others include the elapid snakes, the best known of which are the cobras and kraits and mambas. Venom runs down a groove in the tooth rather than from hypodermic-like viper fangs. But it is effectively injected and is very often lethal. Of the rear-fanged snakes, the Boomslang (D. typus and the Bird Snake ( Thelotornis kirtlandi) may be the most toxic. It takes about 1.5mg of Boomslang venom to kill a healthy adult man weighing about 150 pounds. By contrast, it takes about 15-20 mg of cobra venom, depending on the species. The Cape/yellow cobra is more toxic than the Egyptian cobra, Naja haje. I'd have to look up the scientific name for the Cape species. The other is widespread across sub-Saharan Africa, not limited to Egypt, despite the name.
And some cobras can project venom through holes in the fangs that let them hit you in the eye to at least ten or more feet. I don't know that I've ever read just how far one can reach, but they are very accurate. These can also bite conventionally, and are very potent. The largest spitter is probably Ashe's Large Brown Spitting Cobra, Naja ashei, from Kenya.
I hope that you are never bitten by a copperhead. My son shot one off his fence just last week with a pellet gun and his wife finished it with a hoe. It was about two feet long.
A copperhead bite from any of the four or so known subspecies is a medical emergency. And cost for treating snakebites in a hospital today, where anti-venin is employed, can exceed $250, 000. Hardly a joking matter. And one author who has been bitten by both a copperhead and by more dangerous species, wrote that he actually suffered more pain from the copperhead than from more dangerous bites from rattlesnakes!
If you are fortunate enough to find a copy (it was printed in the 1960's), "Venomous Reptiles", by Minton and Minton is very informative reading and gives projected levels of envenomation likely to result in human deaths, for many snake species. Search Amazon, etc. under the senior author's name, Dr. Sherman A. Minton, Jr. His co-author was his wife, Madge Minton.
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JWH321
Member
I live in Florida. We have lotsa snakes.
I have learned to very quickly tell which ones to ignore and which ones to give a wide berth to. And occasionally, I have to remove one. 12ga time. When I have one that needs to go, I do not want to just nick it, I want it gone. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. We get some sort of rattler around here that isn't very long, maybe three feet or so, but they are thick. I'm sure that the ones we had to deal with have been nearly as thick as my leg (no fat jokes please).
But the interesting thing here is that we also have Bald Eagles. They are by far the finest snake hunters on the planet. I have lost track of how many Eagles I've seen with wriggling snakes in their claws. Its an amazing sight. And they know how to grab them just behind the head so that the snake has no chance to strike. And apparently, they make a pretty good dinner. I've never seen an Eagle drop one.
I have learned to very quickly tell which ones to ignore and which ones to give a wide berth to. And occasionally, I have to remove one. 12ga time. When I have one that needs to go, I do not want to just nick it, I want it gone. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. We get some sort of rattler around here that isn't very long, maybe three feet or so, but they are thick. I'm sure that the ones we had to deal with have been nearly as thick as my leg (no fat jokes please).
But the interesting thing here is that we also have Bald Eagles. They are by far the finest snake hunters on the planet. I have lost track of how many Eagles I've seen with wriggling snakes in their claws. Its an amazing sight. And they know how to grab them just behind the head so that the snake has no chance to strike. And apparently, they make a pretty good dinner. I've never seen an Eagle drop one.
Hunter 2011-
Welkom! I suspect from some of your spelling and phrasing that English may be your second language, after Afrikaans? Just guessing...sorry if I'm wrong. Your ancestors may have been as British as my own, not Dutch/French/German, etc. Without seeing your real last name, I have to guess.
You are, of course, correct about snakebites affecting everyone, but they are not allergies, but venoms, toxic poisons. Some people may also have allergic reactions, too, though. Or allergic reactions to the horse serum used to make antivenin.
If I lived where you do, I'd kill every darned puff adder (Bitis arietans) I saw near a path, and stay out of trees where arboreal snakes like mambas may be present.
I'd have to check to see if the Gaboon viper (Bitis gabonica) ranges into South Africa. My recollection is that it does, in the northern states, and maybe near the Mozambique border. I have looked at them in zoos and been astounded at how their mottled purple and tan and gray color scheme blends so perfectly into leaves! And those things have got fangs to some two inches long!
I read the medical report about one striking a famous American zoo director on one finger, with one fang, for less than a second. He came as close to dying as can be without death. Older U.S. readers will know his name from his TV animal shows, "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" and "Zoo Parade." Marlin Perkins. (Mutual of Omaha is an insurance company that sponsored his shows.)
I saw a video made by the late Aussie croc man, Steve Irwin, when he came to Kenya to molest African snakes in the wild. He was amazed at the aggression of many. He must have been very lucky not have tampered unhappily with Australian snakes, or he'd have seen more aggression from them, too. A black mamba (Dendraspis polylepis) came VERY near ending his life on that trip. He barely missed being bitten. I'm sure that you know that snake well, and its green and Jameson's cousins.
Interesting that you'd post today. I saw a so-called "documentary" filmed off of South Africa last night, where the presumed scientists think they encountered a huge relative of the White shark, Carcharodon meglaodon. I don't know if they were off of Cape Town (founded by the Dutch in 1652, for those who may not know that) or off of, say, Durban or Port Elizabeth, on the eastern side of the nation. They raised a lot of sharks with a chum slick, and say that one of those presumed-extinct megalaons hit their shark cage in the dark. The TV channel involved has perpetrated pseudo documentaries posing as the real thing, and this was probably another such hoax. Have the newspapers there said anything about such a huge, supposedly extinct, shark being seen? If not, I'm going to put this in the figurative trash bucket (dustbin), along with their "documentary" on mermaids.
The only news we get now from South Africa seems to be about the Oscar Pistorious murder trial, so I have to ask. The only South Africans widely seen here are actress Charlize Theron and model Candice Swanepoel. The average American has never even heard of Jan Smuts or Paul Kruger, save that Kruger's image is on the Krugerrand gold coin! But I have read a lot about your snakes and other wildlife and about SA history. It's good to see you posting here.
Of course, you are very right about snakes and their danger. Is "slang" Afrikaans for "snake"? I believe that I read that. I think that "Boomslang" means tree snake?
Tot siens,
Lone Star
Welkom! I suspect from some of your spelling and phrasing that English may be your second language, after Afrikaans? Just guessing...sorry if I'm wrong. Your ancestors may have been as British as my own, not Dutch/French/German, etc. Without seeing your real last name, I have to guess.
You are, of course, correct about snakebites affecting everyone, but they are not allergies, but venoms, toxic poisons. Some people may also have allergic reactions, too, though. Or allergic reactions to the horse serum used to make antivenin.
If I lived where you do, I'd kill every darned puff adder (Bitis arietans) I saw near a path, and stay out of trees where arboreal snakes like mambas may be present.
I'd have to check to see if the Gaboon viper (Bitis gabonica) ranges into South Africa. My recollection is that it does, in the northern states, and maybe near the Mozambique border. I have looked at them in zoos and been astounded at how their mottled purple and tan and gray color scheme blends so perfectly into leaves! And those things have got fangs to some two inches long!
I read the medical report about one striking a famous American zoo director on one finger, with one fang, for less than a second. He came as close to dying as can be without death. Older U.S. readers will know his name from his TV animal shows, "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" and "Zoo Parade." Marlin Perkins. (Mutual of Omaha is an insurance company that sponsored his shows.)
I saw a video made by the late Aussie croc man, Steve Irwin, when he came to Kenya to molest African snakes in the wild. He was amazed at the aggression of many. He must have been very lucky not have tampered unhappily with Australian snakes, or he'd have seen more aggression from them, too. A black mamba (Dendraspis polylepis) came VERY near ending his life on that trip. He barely missed being bitten. I'm sure that you know that snake well, and its green and Jameson's cousins.
Interesting that you'd post today. I saw a so-called "documentary" filmed off of South Africa last night, where the presumed scientists think they encountered a huge relative of the White shark, Carcharodon meglaodon. I don't know if they were off of Cape Town (founded by the Dutch in 1652, for those who may not know that) or off of, say, Durban or Port Elizabeth, on the eastern side of the nation. They raised a lot of sharks with a chum slick, and say that one of those presumed-extinct megalaons hit their shark cage in the dark. The TV channel involved has perpetrated pseudo documentaries posing as the real thing, and this was probably another such hoax. Have the newspapers there said anything about such a huge, supposedly extinct, shark being seen? If not, I'm going to put this in the figurative trash bucket (dustbin), along with their "documentary" on mermaids.
The only news we get now from South Africa seems to be about the Oscar Pistorious murder trial, so I have to ask. The only South Africans widely seen here are actress Charlize Theron and model Candice Swanepoel. The average American has never even heard of Jan Smuts or Paul Kruger, save that Kruger's image is on the Krugerrand gold coin! But I have read a lot about your snakes and other wildlife and about SA history. It's good to see you posting here.
Of course, you are very right about snakes and their danger. Is "slang" Afrikaans for "snake"? I believe that I read that. I think that "Boomslang" means tree snake?
Tot siens,
Lone Star
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Hunter2011
Member
Hi Lonestar.
Yes I am Afrikaans, sorry that I make so much mistakes with da Inglish taal
I'm in the Free State Province. Here are a LOT of Puff Adders. I am very scared of snakes, and that is why I will have to shoot it before it can get a chance to bite me later. I do a bit of shooting on a farm on weekends. I've been shooting on the same farm for more than 5 years and have only seen a snake once in this 5 years. I don't go out looking for one, but if it crosses my path...
Luckily to be bitten by a Puff Adder is not a death sentence. You have a couple of hours to make it to a hospital.
I believe you are right when you say a boomslang is a tree snake
I am very scared of the Swart Mamba though. They say you die in 30 minutes. That will be the end of me as it will take me more time than that to drive to the nearest hospital. But seemingly they are very very scarce in the Free State.
Candice Swanepoel... I've asked her to marry me, but she declined the offer
Yes I am Afrikaans, sorry that I make so much mistakes with da Inglish taal
I'm in the Free State Province. Here are a LOT of Puff Adders. I am very scared of snakes, and that is why I will have to shoot it before it can get a chance to bite me later. I do a bit of shooting on a farm on weekends. I've been shooting on the same farm for more than 5 years and have only seen a snake once in this 5 years. I don't go out looking for one, but if it crosses my path...
Luckily to be bitten by a Puff Adder is not a death sentence. You have a couple of hours to make it to a hospital.
I believe you are right when you say a boomslang is a tree snake
I am very scared of the Swart Mamba though. They say you die in 30 minutes. That will be the end of me as it will take me more time than that to drive to the nearest hospital. But seemingly they are very very scarce in the Free State.
Candice Swanepoel... I've asked her to marry me, but she declined the offer
Hunter 2011-
Yes, I know the word "taal" for "language" or speech. I used to read novels by Stuart Cloete and Wilbur Smith and others that gave some Afrikaans terms. And, sure, I know where the Orange Free State is, by the Transvaal.
I know that Candice Swanepoel visits Victoria's Secret lingerie stores here to visit with customers, and she has been in one near me! I want to impress her if we meet, so I memorized the words "mooi meisie" to ask if they describe her and if I've got the words right. I know that she comes from Mooi River, Natal-kwaZulu. So I guess the river is also considered "pretty." Sorry that she turned you down. My luck will probably be no better. She has some excellent videos on YouTube, BTW. Not sure if I can link them here, though.
Do you see TV programs there featuring a man named Austin Stevens? I saw some here. He got bitten by a cobra during a show, but was gotten quickly to hospital and survived, with antivenin. I think this was in the northern Cape or in the Kalahari Desert. He seems to be the SA equivalent to Steve Irwin. You can probably view that episode on YouTube. Some of these TV hosts seem to be adrenaline junkies; people who like taking grave risks.
Well, have a good day. If I've got the right term, "alles van die beste." (All the best/best wishes.)
Yes, I know the word "taal" for "language" or speech. I used to read novels by Stuart Cloete and Wilbur Smith and others that gave some Afrikaans terms. And, sure, I know where the Orange Free State is, by the Transvaal.
I know that Candice Swanepoel visits Victoria's Secret lingerie stores here to visit with customers, and she has been in one near me! I want to impress her if we meet, so I memorized the words "mooi meisie" to ask if they describe her and if I've got the words right. I know that she comes from Mooi River, Natal-kwaZulu. So I guess the river is also considered "pretty."
Sorry that she turned you down. My luck will probably be no better. She has some excellent videos on YouTube, BTW. Not sure if I can link them here, though.Do you see TV programs there featuring a man named Austin Stevens? I saw some here. He got bitten by a cobra during a show, but was gotten quickly to hospital and survived, with antivenin. I think this was in the northern Cape or in the Kalahari Desert. He seems to be the SA equivalent to Steve Irwin. You can probably view that episode on YouTube. Some of these TV hosts seem to be adrenaline junkies; people who like taking grave risks.
Well, have a good day. If I've got the right term, "alles van die beste." (All the best/best wishes.)
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Hunter2011
Member
Alles van die beste vir jou ook Lone Star
jimmyraythomason
Member
Indeed it is very good and I've killed dozens just that way, however, a hoe does not fit a holster very well and is cumbersome to lug around for a "just in case" situation.
I sometimes use a hoe, sometimes a broom, sometimes a rake... just turned the other way.
"Step back a bit kids... notice the bow-tie pattern, the distinct dots? We never touch this one. He'll go away, just watch." A little prod and the scared little critter scampers off as far as he can get from the two legged beasts.
"Step back a bit kids... notice the bow-tie pattern, the distinct dots? We never touch this one. He'll go away, just watch." A little prod and the scared little critter scampers off as far as he can get from the two legged beasts.
As can a bee sting. Almost all of people in the US treated for a copperhead bite receive supportive treatment, only. Pain management, cleaning of the wound, and a bandage. No antivenom. It's not that most people recover because of modern medical care. 99% of healthy adults would be just fine even if they didn't do anything but go home and sit down. Most people do not have any systemic symptoms at all, aside from elevated PT, which just means their blood does not clot as fast... so they get a free blood thinner.
I do not think a snake bite is a laughing matter. I am simply not afraid of North American snakes in general, copperheads in particular. If you do get bit on the leg, one of the main things to watch out for is the swelling. If it gets so bad that it theatens to cut off the circulation, you may need surgery to relieve the pressure. Even that would be exceedingly rare.I have found at least 4 deaths on wikipedia and other sources. One was confirmed anaphylactic shock (allergy), one was a 50 yr old that had been suffering chest pain for 3 days prior when he got bit, and his official cause of death was heart attack. Another was 72 yrs old and no other information. Then there's a 31 yr old male with no other information.
Bees kill a hell of a lot more people than do snakes in this country. Domesticated pitbulls kill more people than copperheads.
Have you ever shot this lil 22 revolver without ears? I made that mistake with my Ruger Mk... once.
I figured on top of a mountain, 5" barrel, closed breech, how bad could it possibly be? My ears were ringing for a few hours and I was very upset with myself. I went through the same thing already when I was 18, only with a 45ACP. The caliber doesn't matter. Handguns are loud!!!I just came across this and am kind of surprised. This doesn't sound right. There are at least a thousand 12 yr olds in GA breaking the possession law right now. And another thousand moms who have broken the "kill" part.
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danez71
Member
The vast majority of people are not deathly allergic to bees. Those that know they are, in most cases, can readily carry and administer the meds to save their own life.
Where-as....
The vast majority of people ARE deathly allergic to snakes. They don't have the option of carrying around the meds.
There's a difference.
Peanuts kill more people than snakes. But that doesn't make it a good comparison to snake bites either.
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