What has happened to customer service in the gun industry?

Excellent service at Protektor Rest, Bruno's, Brownells, RCBS, Leupold and Hornady.

These companies have knowledgeable people who actually answer their phones and appear involved in their work.

I have had great service from:

RCBS -- I purchased a Rock Chucker used and send me the die bushing the primer catch tray for free (this was just a few months ago)

Dillon -- Never a problem

CZ -- replaced a P07 that was not dropping magazines

Lyman -- broke a Bullet Puller Hammer and they sent me a new one even though it was out of warranty by about 1 month

Issues

Ed Brown -- Ordered a Reverse Recoil Plug from Ed Brown
-- Order the correct part
-- They put the correct part number on the invoice
-- They shipped the wrong part

This is where it gets stupid
-- I called and they accepted the fact they shipped the wrong part
-- They wanted me to pay to ship the wrong part back on my dime (or in this case 10 dimes)
-- I indicated this was horrible service but they indicated that was their policy
-- I mailed it back, and they send the correct part to me and as a reward for them screwing up they sent me an extra of the same part. A part that has lifetime warranty -- so now I have an extra of a part that should not fail.

Concerning Ed Brown -- this wold be a reason for me not to purchase one of their weapons, totally horrible customer service.

UK

I don't see people griping about beer companies having bad CS.

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Well, this isn't a beer forum, so you wouldn't.
But I did have an issue with Full Sail about skunky Sessions Lager. Emailed 'em, never heard back, switched to Pyramid.

I can only speak for myself, but I put good CS at the top of my list when shopping for any product or service, other than a one use commodity like salt.

It's been my experience that the companies with good CS tend to perform better. Not related to the guns, as I haven't had a chance (luckily) to use their CS yet.

Yes there's plenty of customers out there. If you get enough of them p'd off it would take years to recover. An angry customer has a long memory, loud mouth, and a large audience thanks to the internet. Thousands of angry customers will ruin a company's reputation. Reputation may kill you, reputation may also keep you at the top - just look at Apple phone vs Microsoft phone, or Toyota vs Chrysler. Why would people pay a (rather outrageous) Apple hardware premium if it wasn't for Apple reputation / status ?

I do agree this is a cyclical trend.

Only dealt with firearms related CS twice. Taylors was excellent. Answered question immediately, adjusted part and returned quickly.
Ruger, not so good. Told me that they don't deal with that gun anymore, nothing they could do. A TFL member pointed me in the right direction and $20 later the gun was back up and running.
Seems like it is 50/50 with large companies vs small. Some large companies offer great service and some companies that are small seem to really care. The inverse is also true. I believe it comes down to the culture of the company and even the individual that answers the phone.
This isn't just related to the firearms community, all businesses posses these traits.

Customer service

I have had occasion twice in the past year to secure service from Sig and Glock and must say both treated me with respect and professional businesslike service.

well tried to order a scope mount base from optics planet. the phone person claimed he had to drop ship it from a sister company, and it would be here in 3 actual days.

email from them said it would be 16 days to potential earleist arrival.

called them up, and expedited shipping means "it might arrive by 1/1/15"

What has happened to customer service in the gun industry?

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The same as every other industry.

The American consumer has been making the choice that they'd rather have cheaper prices than good service.

Many people haven't learn that you don't get everything.... and everything costs something.

Most manufacturers don't sell direct; they sell to their dealer network or to distributors, or occasionally to buyers like Wal-Mart, Cabela's, etc.

So, generally the only time a the manufacturer and final customer have any contact is if there's a problem. The customer can't see their fancy new building, their trophy secretaries, their or their glossy PR handouts; all he has is a voice on the other end of the phone.

That voice is all of the company the customer may ever personally encounter. It drives me nuts. Companies hire marketing and advertising firms and pay them through the nose to bring in customers, but they don't want to actually talk to one, because they might get Customer Cooties over the phone line. And as for e-mail... I've so seldom gotten a reply, I don't even bother any more.

Sometimes you just get stuck with a real jerk/moron on the other end of the phone also. Sometimes when you hit entry level CS they are only good for the most basic of inquiries. Sometimes those on the other end are just full of themselves.

Example. A coupla years ago in between the reloading shortages I came across what I thought was a good deal on .45 caliber bullets while searching on Gamaliel's web site. While they were not exactly what I was looking for at the time, they were at a good price for plinkers outta the .460. The web page said 100 count boxes of Speer JHPs @ X amount of dollars. My experience with those bullets was that they only came in 50 count boxes. While the price was high for a 50 count box, for a 100 count it was pretty good. But since I had my suspicions, I called the company direct and asked. I was assured by a nice talking lady named(I won't say) that the web page was correct and they were indeed 100 count boxes. So I ordered 4 boxes. Next week there was a package from Gamaliel's on the doorstep with 4 50 count boxes of Speer bullets.:banghead:

I called Gamaliel's CS and asked for the same lady I had talked to before and explained what happened. She basically told me too bad, sorry our web page is incorrect and that no way can we take the bullets back. I then asked to speak to a supervisor and she told me she was the supervisor and this is where things got ugly. After I explained to her I has gotten her word on it personally, had a copy of the web page that described the boxes as 50 count, a receipt showing I paid for 4 boxes of 100 count bullets and only received 4 boxes of 50, that I was still owed 200 bullets. Instead of offering me 200 more bullets, she said the best she could do was to give me a whole $2 credit per box. This was still higher than anywhere else for the same bullets and unacceptable to me. I just wanted what I ordered for the amount that I was told, or my money back. She then went on a rant about stupid customers, screamed at me to put the box on my porch with a return label on it(I had to make myself) and UPS would pick them up the next day. She then slammed the phone down and hung up on me. Needless to say, never again will they have anything I need.

earlthegoat2 said:

I don't see people griping about beer companies having bad CS.

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I emailed Arcadia ales twice about getting bottles that were "gushers" - I'd pop the cap and foam and beer would surge out of it. Never heard back. Haven't bought it since.

I used a promo at a display in a store to order a free Sam Adams Octoberfest stein. Never got it.

Speaking of Sam Adams, i emailed them some constructive feedback on their Holiday Pack last year - because in my opinion it was just not holiday-centric enough. I included feedback on the different beers tastes and impressions. Juniper berry IPA? Cherry Chocolate Bock? Not really making me feel in a holiday mood. Anyways, the response I got back was pretty much a form letter, saying it's hard to make choices on the bottles they include or discontinue (I didn't like that they got rid of Holiday Porter)...but get this....they said, "If you try the Holiday Pack, we're sure you'll find a new favorite as well as old favorites." Umm, I did try it - I bought it - and was providing feedback. Oh well.

So anyways, bringing it back to the thread at hand, re: firearms customer service, I sent my Springfield XDs in for their recall, had a shipping label immediately emailed to me, and it got there, got fixed, then was shipped back. It was gone and back within 4-5 days. I was impressed.

The only two times I've had to use customer service for a gun related problem were positive.
Had a warped shell plate on a Lee press. Told Midway and they had a new one in my mail box in three days.
The second time was after my cheap Phoenix 22 broke a slide after a decade of hard use. I sent it in and seven days later I had a brand new pistol.

Interesting observations. I had a K-Brand 1911 that wouldn't run - K called me an idiot in several different ways, and in two trips to the factory I never, no NEVER could get two magazines to empty without a failure. LOCAL DEALER good the gun back and gave me a discount on another 1911. Guess where I buy my guns?

Had a pair of Columbia hiking boots, which after about 10 months started to come unstitched in places. Learned of their warranty, thought why not and sent them in. Got a brand new pair of upgraded boots. Called them at Customer Service and thanked them. A few days later I got a thank you for being a nice Customer card, and admission to the Company Store! Shopped a basketful there, and the person at the register told me if I wanted to come back, buy something for my kid to try on and I could come back and shop again when I exchanged it! Think I have a closet full of Columbia clothes and gear? You betcha! Only a small percentage came from the Company store visit, but almost all of it because of that visit!

I simply don't spend my money where it isn't appreciated.

I run a small (one man) appliance repair service and it has become simply impossible for me to answer my phone in real time. I respond at the end of the day. There is such a gross shortage of service providers that I have to be very careful not to overbook myself. I simply cannot afford to simultaneously deal with issues over the phone and do the physical work as well.
Some of my customers get mad at not being able to talk to me when they want to. If they get mad enough, they can go somewhere else. I will do my best to provide the best customer service I can but I am also wrestling with TOO MUCH business (if you can believe that).
You might say "hire somebody" but there is a total lack of qualified techs. It is easier said than done.
It seems that telling your kids to go to college, graduate, then come back to live with you for another ten years is better than going into a good career working with your hands.

Dont know if the gun companies are having similar issues, but I can attest to the problems you encounter when business is "too good".

Customer Service is stellar at HK-USA. If you do a search you will probably run across many testimonials of how promptly, courteously, and efficiently those folks are at HK. I have had several amazing experiences with them over the past many years. I have become a repeat customer of Heckler and Koch for two reasons; a top quality product and wonderful customer service.

I shopped for the first time with Midway. There was a problem with the package when it arrived.
I emailed CS who promise 24 hours turn around. Five days later after no reply I send a copy to Larry Potterfield who requests feedback from customers. Still no response.
As they say you only have one opportunity to make a first good impression.
Midway failed.

I've had mostly really good service from gun companies. The worst was Marlin but that was mostly due to a defective part they couldn't get themselves to they couldn't replace mine. Eventually they got mine replaced along with everyone else's.

But I have almost entirely good stories. I bought a used Springfield Arms XDm that had some issues. I could have returned it to the place I bought it but instead I called the company just to check. Sure enough they told me that they would fix it then and for pretty much the entire time I owned it despite what the warranty said. Service was fast and the fix was done well. I don't even remember what the problem was now.

I've had LGS's ship my stuff back to the factory more than once so that I wouldn't have to pay for shipping. I've had LGS's give me try out periods for guns (lots of them actually) where I get to test a gun and if I don't like it for any reason I can bring it back. That includes new and used guns. The one time I got a new one they knew I would love it and wouldn't bring it back though. And they were right. It's one of the best guns I own. I had to take one back too. They just gave me back my money and asked if they could do anything else for me.

I've had a LGS owner invite me out to a gun range to test fire a pistol I bought that was acting up. It was the ammo I was using which I already suspected but it seemed strange that factory ammo could be that bad. Not only did they fix my problem by proving it would work with about any other ammo (this was before I knew to test guns with every type of ammo I could find to see what was most accurate) but he also let me fire 3 machine guns he had brought with him. We must have shot up $5000 worth of ammo that day. We had all 3 machine guns going for 2 hours solid (yes there others there with us shooting too). The guy actually handed me a full auto AR telling me that it was loaded so be careful. Then he told me it was worth $35,000. I thought he must be nuts to hand me a loaded machine gun then tell me it was worth a fortune. I could have been a gangster that would have just shot him and his friends and took his toys. Obviously I'm not a murdering thug but he didn't know that.

So my opinion of gun industry people is actually pretty high. I've had a problem here and there but I've had far more great dealings with the people involved. Same goes for scope companies too. And holster companies. I could write a book on the good experiences I have had with gun related stuff.

One more example that isn't really a gun industry story but a story about gun people. I offered up some once fired brass for sale on this board saying I would take all reasonable offers. I didn't have anyone give me some lowball offer hoping to get over on me and the fact I don't know the price of brass in China (old reference so you youngun's ignore that part). I got decent offers for pretty much everything. I only have one type still left and I already sold half of it. I knew I could trust people to not try to burn me. You treat people right and they treat you right and I always try to treat others right.

just gimme your money please...

Two instances come to mind.

First was Charter Arms. Had an issue with a new Mag Pug I had bought. I called them and talked with a lady there, who said she would relay the info to someone else. A day later I got a call from Nick Ecker saying he was not sure how the gun had got through in the condition it was in, but he would take care of it. My LGS shipped it to C.A. and they had it repaired and back to me within a week and maybe days.

Second was Missouri Bullet Company. I inquired about a certain bullet and its' diameter, and if they thought it might work with a certain rifle of mine. Brad wrote back to me a couple times until we realized it wasn't workable.

Maybe it is because these two are smaller companies. But for the "head honchos" of the business, taking time out of their hectic schedule to address my issues/questions, I have nothing bad to say about either one.

Customer service issues... Nothing new.

Killing time I was reading here and there from my Williamson Winchester book and found the tribulations which a fella went through in trying to get Winchester to pay attention to what he was communicating.

Reading it, one gets the impression that those at Winchester were gonna do what they wanted relative to customer requirements, regardless of the clarity of the customer's communications and seemingly outright lies or at least abject disregard on the part of Winchester.

And this was for the President of The United States: T Roosevelt in preparation for a specimen gathering trip for The Smithsonian.

He made it very clear that he had turned down hosts offers to supply him with Brit pieces but instead wished to showcase US arms... Winchester in particular!

The arrogance and disregard in correspondence is familiar.

Sure, he could be demanding and double sure, he was asking for custom work but still.... TR... POTUS.... National pride?


Customer service problems?...

... nothing new under the sun.

CS in my local gun shops as well as big names has been terrible for many years. The industry seems to be filled with arrogant unfriendly snobs. Sadly you see this over and over when you go to local gun shops and gun shows. When you deal with major manufacturers directly it seems to be the same. When you try and deal with people in private sales or trades on forums and groups they seem flakey, unreliable and shady as well.

I hate to say it but "gun people" seem to be their own worst enemy.

There are also the direct oppossite but I have dealt with more bad then good.

Best experience I have dealt with had to be either Model1Sales, Buds or PSA (when you can get through).

I had an issue with a SA XD and called them. They were the absolute best I had dealt with, hands down.

My experiences were with Dillon, Leupold, lee, and Hornady. Dillon is better than outstanding, along with Leupold. Phenomenal.

Hornady guy was a smart arse. He thought he was being funny. I wasn't in a joking mood. They made me pay for a part that was factory defective

I had to pay for new primer pins on Lee dies that were used for a total of three rounds and snapped off. Said warranty does't cover them. I still use Lee dies because they seem to work well.

Ordered an AR from Arfcom last Black Friday. I didn't see that the order had to be processed before midnight and I ordered Saturday so I was invoiced at full price. Girl there went WAY out of her way to get me one at promo price.