Help choosing a Rifle

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Fella's;

It's not magnum hating, it's simply good advice given the parameters the O.P. has laid out. The recoil and expense are totally unnecessary for the tasks he says he wants to perform. Besides, he has access to his father's rifle, the .300 Ultra Mag, if he truly needs it in the future.

As a side note, when I took an antelope in to get the head mounted, a young man was just ahead of me with a black bear hide. He'd also been antelope hunting, but had the bear tag and used it when he ran across one. He told me he'd made the approximate 150 yard shot on the walking bear, and used his .220 Swift. He placed the bullet through the lungs, and you could see where it left a semi-circle in the entry rib & broke three ribs on the far side. He told me that the bullet fragments were under the far side hide & the lungs were mush. I told him not to tell his insurance agent & give the poor person a heart attack. I wouldn't use that caliber, but it is anecdotal proof you don't need a magnum to hunt black bear. A .30-06 will do just fine.

900F
 
I'll join the chorus advising against 300 Win Mag.

30-06, .308 or .270 will do anything that needs doing in North America. If you really want to get into the caliber weeds, and go lighter, then also consider 7x57 Mauser, 6.5x55 Swedish, 7mm-08 Remington or .260 Remington.

For bolt rifles I like CZ, Sako and Winchester Model 70. I have a Winchester Model 70Extreme Weather in .308 with a Leupold 2-7x33mm VXR scope on top. Figure that will pretty much satisfy me until the day I die.
 
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X-Rap said:
Well the expected Magmun haters have spoken their piece.
Pay them no mind but since you already have access to an Ultra I would point you to a 280 or 7-08 if for no other reason than the wider choice of bullets than the 270 or 30-06.
As mentioned, you have much time to build up your specialized arsenal and the 7mm's are very versatile with excellent bullets ranging from 120-175.
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Wider choice of bullets than a 30 cal?! I hate to call someone with over 4000 posts an idiot, but here I am. Even .270 has "excellent bullets" from 85-160 gr.

I whole heartedly endorse this in .270 http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10TROPHYHUNTERXP A removable magazine chambered in a tried and true flat shooting round found on every gun store shelf. Accutrigger? Bonus! Nikon? Bonus? Wood stock? Bonus!
 
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Fella's;

I just took a look at Speer #14, both the 7X57 Mauser and the .30-06. They list 16 bullets for the 7mm and 29 for the thirty caliber. Maybe I miscounted?

900F
 
Sure, the OP doesn't need a .300wm, but then there isn't a single owner of a corvette, mustang, or Porsche that needs one of those cars. A Camry will get the job done at considerably less expense.

If you want a .300wm, get it. You don't always have to make the practical decision, particularly when you're 20 years old. Life will cram practicality down your throat eventually, so it's okay to be care free now.

Just make sure you can afford ammo to shoot it. Otherwise you'll be like those fools that buy huge cabin cruisers and can't afford the gas to leave the dock.

I'm satisfied with my choice. A .300wm covers a lot of hunting needs if you can really only have one rifle. When I was at the range sighting in with my new load, an old timer asked me what the heck I was going to hunt with a .300wm. My answer? "Anything I want."
 
Fella's;

It's a good thing our 20-year-old wouldn't have to pay the insurance premiums of a Corvette, Mustang, or Porsche to own that .300 magnum. If he did, he'd have that Camry .30-06. But wombat makes a point, there are always reality based downsides to high performance.

900F
 
My new favorite rifle is a 1972 .338 WM. Oh man...I love this thing...

Back to topic:

I am not a 'magnum hater': I would go with a good .30-06 with a 24"-25" tube and you won't be under gunned (some say ever: I want my .338 or my 45-70 facing a big bear).

In the end bro, all we can do is give advice: go with your (studied) heart. If I could have only one rifle it would be the .30-06 I noted above. I'd challenge anyone to pick a 'better' hunting round.

Enjoy.
Greg
 
If you want a good light rifle a Tikka is an excellent choice. My personal choice would be a Savage. If weight is not a concern a Weatherby Vanguard may be what I would consider also.
 
If you can only have one rifle, get a 30-06. You can load jacketed bullet weights of 110, 125, 130, 150, 165, 168, 180, and 200 grains.
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You can buy 220 gr. ammo off the shelf. I have quite a bit of the Core Lokt 220 gr. for my 30.06.

The OP seems to be set on a lightweight 300 WM. I say got a Tikka T3 Lite (6 lb. 6 oz.) and go for it. I got 5 bucks that says he sells it after shooting it 3 times. Talk about a shoulder buster. He would be looking at recoil equal to an 10 lb. rifle firing a .416 Rigby round. Ouch! I might understand if he wanted to shoot polar bear from half a mile away on pack ice but only shooting 300 yards??? Is there a bigfoot infestation I don't know about somewhere?

I don't mean to be insulting but sometimes youthful exuberance gets the best of our common sense. It's like buying a motorcycle that will go 170 mph. Why? It's just asking for a lot of pain either way. I think we're all trying to spare him of that since there's nothing in N. America that needs a .300 WinMag and you can't really take a gun like that to Africa to go on Safari. You pretty much have to get your gun over there. I wouldn't mind doing some hunting in the Columbus Zoo come to think of it but I'm guessing if I shoot those elephants somebody is going to complain. ;)

Seriously friend. You don't need that much gun. You will likely never need that much gun. If you want it that's fine but you did ask for a light weight version. That's being a glutton for punishment and most of us here realize that. If you know that and you don't care and you don't mind blowing your quarry in half then by all means get yourself a T3 Light .300 WinMag. It's a nice rifle for shooting artillery rounds if you can stand the pain.

I once had a guy bet me $5 that I wouldn't shoot his super magnum 12 ga. turkey gun 3 times in a row. I did it. I even shot a Brenneke slug through a H&R Topper 3 times in a row. The bruise didn't go away for a month. But I wouldn't shoot that Tikka T3 Light .300 Winmag 3 times in a row for $50.
 
Cee Zee said:
You can buy 220 gr. ammo off the shelf. I have quite a bit of the Core Lokt 220 gr. for my 30.06.

The OP seems to be set on a lightweight 300 WM. I say got a Tikka T3 Lite (6 lb. 6 oz.) and go for it. I got 5 bucks that says he sells it after shooting it 3 times. Talk about a shoulder buster. He would be looking at recoil equal to an 10 lb. rifle firing a .416 Rigby round. Ouch! I might understand if he wanted to shoot polar bear from half a mile away on pack ice but only shooting 300 yards??? Is there a bigfoot infestation I don't know about somewhere?

I don't mean to be insulting but sometimes youthful exuberance gets the best of our common sense. It's like buying a motorcycle that will go 170 mph. Why? It's just asking for a lot of pain either way. I think we're all trying to spare him of that since there's nothing in N. America that needs a .300 WinMag and you can't really take a gun like that to Africa to go on Safari. You pretty much have to get your gun over there. I wouldn't mind doing some hunting in the Columbus Zoo come to think of it but I'm guessing if I shoot those elephants somebody is going to complain. ;)

Seriously friend. You don't need that much gun. You will likely never need that much gun. If you want it that's fine but you did ask for a light weight version. That's being a glutton for punishment and most of us here realize that. If you know that and you don't care and you don't mind blowing your quarry in half then by all means get yourself a T3 Light .300 WinMag. It's a nice rifle for shooting artillery rounds if you can stand the pain.

I once had a guy bet me $5 that I wouldn't shoot his super magnum 12 ga. turkey gun 3 times in a row. I did it. I even shot a Brenneke slug through a H&R Topper 3 times in a row. The bruise didn't go away for a month. But I wouldn't shoot that Tikka T3 Light .300 Winmag 3 times in a row for $50.
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Come on, let's stick to reality when giving advice. Here are a couple links for calculating recoil.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

A .300wm shooting a 180 gr. pill at 2960 fps (a pretty standard load) is going to run about 26 ft-lbs of recoil in a 8.5 lb rifle. If we reduce that to a 6.5 lb rifle (the Tikka with a scope) and the recoil goes up to only 34 ft-lbs. Is that the same as a .416? Not even close. Here are a few comparisons:

.300wm 180gr @ 2960 8.5 lb rifle 26 ft-lbs
.300wm 180gr @ 2960 6.5 lb rifle 34 ft-lbs
300 rum 180 @ 3230 8.5 lb rifle 33 ft-lbs
.416 rigby 400 @ 24500 10 lb rifle 58 ft-lbs
.416 weatherby 400 @ 2700 10.25 lb rifle 83 ft-lbs

Here's the heaviest recoil I shoot:

3.5 magnum Hevishot 984 grains @ 1200 fps in 7.25 lb shotgun 75 ft-lbs

His lightweight .300wm will kick about like the .300 rum he already shoots or about the same as a .338wm. It is nowhere near an elephant gun or even heavy turkey loads.

Also, can we just stop with the myth that a .300wm will blow a deer in half? It just doesn't happen. A .300wm shot to the vitals is going to be about the same as a .30-06 shot to the vitals and ditto for a shot to the shoulder. I know because I shoot a .300wm, my BIL shoots a .30-06 and my FIL shoots a .338wm. All our deer look basically the same with the same shot placement.
 
I've taken elk in Wyoming with my .308 carbine. Two quick shots into the chest organs gets the job done fast. I can fire two quick shots due to moderate recoil whereas the hunter armed with a magnum can only fire one in same time period. Do the math, two .308 Winchester bullets hit the elk with more energy than just one magnum bullet.

Elk are tough but not armor-plated.

TR

elkinforestsized.jpg
 
While I'm sure your .308 does a perfectly fine job on elk, and may even be a more appropriate choice than many magnums, your math is irrelevant. Cumulative energy does not kill the elk. A penetrating wound channel through vital organs does.
 
This reminds me so much of conversations with the middle boy. Boy is a relative term, 6'3" and 260lbs and 30yrs old. He listened to his buddies and bought a 300 mag. In a lightweight plastic stocked package. He quit hunting for a few years because the recoil beat him up so bad. And he is a pretty stout guy who owns a commercial tire business changing tractor, 18 wheeler and skidder tires on a daily basis.

Last year he asked me to help him choose an inexpensive, flat shooting hunting rifle that wouldn't hurt him like the boomer did. We chose a 270 and he loves it. His Christmas gift is a die set , powder and bullets so I can reload for his rifle.

I know the exuberance of youth is to go for the biggest and baddest but it can really put a damper on enjoying the hunt. I would recommend 30-06, 308, 7mm-08, 270 as the ammo is plentiful and easily found.
 
I guess I just don't get it. The recoil from a .300wm isn't that bad. I just took a look at Winchester 12 ga slugs. 385 grains at 1725 fps. I guessed at 35 grains of powder and an 8 lb shotgun. Guess what? 26 Ftlbs of recoil, same as the typical .300wm. All those guys that have to use shotgun seem to do fine. Yet as soon as we talk about rifles, 26 ft lbs of recoil will rip your arm off and detach your retinas.:rolleyes:
 
Hi I live in southern wisconsin & mostly hunting whitetail deer. With shooting between 50-300 yards. But I'm also planning a trip out west for mule deer & elk. I have my search down to a 300 win mag. But what would be the best for light weight & cost I'm 20 years old with a somewhat limited budget but I want the rifle to last me a long time so if it calls for some saving that's ok for me.

P.S. I'm an Archery Freak but when it comes to rifles I'm a virgin! Thanks for the Help!
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So you're new to rifles but you want your first rifle to be a .300 Winchester Magnum? :scrutiny:
 
Cee Zee said:
... and you can't really take a gun like that to Africa to go on Safari. You pretty much have to get your gun over there.
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Sure you can. I know a guy that took his Blaser R8 in .300 Win Mag to Africa for Safari this past July. He had a little hassle at the Frankfort airport, but that was it for the inconvenience. He's also going to get a .416 barrel for it for his next trip back next year.

To the OP.....7mm-08.
 
Archery freak ..... rifle virgin. ...


Listen to us and get a 30.06 270. Or a 308. You can't out shoot them with a 300 and an elk won't know the difference inside 500 which 90% of us shouldn't try anyhow.

I recommend the .06. But prefer the 270.
 
I was in the same boat as you last year. I went with a CZ 550 American in .30-06 and a Leopold VX-3 3.5-10x and never looked back. It is now my antelope, deer and elk gun, depending on the load I use.
 
You need to shoot a .300 Win Mag first!!! The recoil very BAD in a light rifle!!!

If it was me I would get a Ruger Am. in a .308 or .30-06 for less than $500 and buy a good scope. I bought one in a .308 and mounted a VXII 2x7 I had laying around.
 
I guess I just don't get it. The recoil from a .300wm isn't that bad.
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Yes, you don't. You are arguing from your personal tolerance of recoil which can vary greatly among shooters. There is a reason that the consensus among experienced hunters here is advising what they are. It really is to best assist the OP.

...your math is irrelevant. Cumulative energy does not kill the elk. A penetrating wound channel through vital organs does.
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You did not think before posting this. What do 2 shots from T.R.'s .308 achieve? Well, 2 penetrating wound channels is better than 1, no?
 
WTBguns10kOK said:
Yes, you don't. You are arguing from your personal tolerance of recoil which can vary greatly among shooters. There is a reason that the consensus among experienced hunters here is advising what they are. It really is to best assist the OP.



You did not think before posting this. What do 2 shots from T.R.'s .308 achieve? Well, 2 penetrating wound channels is better than 1, no?
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Sorry, you're the one who failed reading comprehension. The poster said do the math, two shots from a .308 equals more energy than one shot from a .300wm. Energy does not kill. Read it again if you have to. The point is, it doesn't matter if his two shots deliver more energy if the one shot from the .300wm penetrates through the vitals that is all that is necessary.
 
While we are at it, I will mention the 7 MM mag. But buy what you want. I once had a 30-06 mountain rifle. Great to carry. A lot less great to shoot. Ouch. Have fun.
 
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