Trap club snobs (rant)
- Thread starter ihctractor
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bannockburn
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ihctractor
Sorry to hear about your less than friendly trap shooting experience. Sounds like at the very least a bit of fraudulent activity on the part of the meet director.
A friend of mine and I used to shoot trap at range about an hour and a half from where we lived. Nice family run place, a little run down in some areas but the trap, skeet, and sporting clays stations were well maintained. Always friendly and courteous people shooting there too. Usually you could find some very experienced guys shooting trap but no snobs or elitists; none of them looked down on the fellow who showed up with an old H&R single shot to shoot with either. Plenty of free advice, help if you were having a problem with your gun, and offers to try their shotguns if you wanted to. All in all a great trap shooting experience.
Sorry to hear about your less than friendly trap shooting experience. Sounds like at the very least a bit of fraudulent activity on the part of the meet director.
A friend of mine and I used to shoot trap at range about an hour and a half from where we lived. Nice family run place, a little run down in some areas but the trap, skeet, and sporting clays stations were well maintained. Always friendly and courteous people shooting there too. Usually you could find some very experienced guys shooting trap but no snobs or elitists; none of them looked down on the fellow who showed up with an old H&R single shot to shoot with either. Plenty of free advice, help if you were having a problem with your gun, and offers to try their shotguns if you wanted to. All in all a great trap shooting experience.
Swing
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Mainsail said:
^ Sad, but so very true. In recent years its gotten worse.
As to the original post, yes, I've seen it before. I can only think of one incident of outright hostility, but I've seen the lower grade snobbery from time to time. It didn't turn me off the sport, but I can see how it would to others. Now I bust clays on my own property, with whom I invite. Problem solved.
d2wing
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Some clubs I have belonged to have been great. Unfortunately the old boys throwing their weight around is the norm at many clubs. The club I belong to now has great welcoming people but some of the other kind too. Some want to abide by only the rules that favor them. One guy complained all day about me beating him because he did not agree with the rule, even though I lost first place in a round because of the same rule. By the same rule I would have beat him anyway on the first relay. Many times when you have clubs the older members feel they have seniority and want you to know it. Thankfully not all are like that.
ColtPythonElite
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One of my local trap clubs has a poor reputation. They have a reputation for not being welcoming to newcomers. They have fought so much internally that the club is down to just a few active members.
Your story reminds me of the gents pulling up with the latest in bass boat technology that can't back their own trailer down the boat ramp to save their skin. One dude ripped a wheel off of his trailer after jumping the curb, refusing help, and embarrassing his 2 companions. Tempers run short at predawn thirty at the lakes around here during the spring.
oneounceload
member
It doesn't bother me; I just don't bother doing those activities. With a rebuilt knee and old eyes, trying to use open sights don't do well for me anyhow!
Besides, I'd rather bust challenging clays any day - just different priority, especially sporting clays where we joke and kid each other when someone really blows an easy target - all in good fun though
ATAShooter
Member
Don't know where ya went, but alot of clubs have their "Click, Clique" ( however you spell it ). I like to stick with registered shoots. Fun shoots are ok, but for some reason, I find folks at ATA registered shoots friendlier. I shoot a ratty old 1956 Model 12 and do just fine. Like the saying goes, "Yep, you own a Ferrari, but can you DRIVE it?" Hell, a Yugo can get you there if you can DRIVE it.
Jim Watson
Member
It has been a while since I shot Trap regularly and nearly as long since I shot recreational Skeet; my interests shifted.
But I recall the local club being generally supportive and helpful.
One wheeler dealer went off in a snit because somebody hoorawed him for showing up with a pretty high end trap gun he had gotten a Deal on when it was clearly way more gun than his experience justified.
I detect a lot of Internet Reverse Snobbism here. "I beat them old guys and their Krieghoffs with my camo Mossy shottie." I guess that satisfies their machismo because such people seldom stay in the game. If they shot for a while and tried to build an average, they might respect the regulars more. The few who start out doing pretty good with their goose guns and stay in usually save up and buy a real Trap gun. I know I never saw a Mossy shottie at a Zone shoot (I never did make it to Vandalia.)
But I recall the local club being generally supportive and helpful.
One wheeler dealer went off in a snit because somebody hoorawed him for showing up with a pretty high end trap gun he had gotten a Deal on when it was clearly way more gun than his experience justified.
I detect a lot of Internet Reverse Snobbism here. "I beat them old guys and their Krieghoffs with my camo Mossy shottie." I guess that satisfies their machismo because such people seldom stay in the game. If they shot for a while and tried to build an average, they might respect the regulars more. The few who start out doing pretty good with their goose guns and stay in usually save up and buy a real Trap gun. I know I never saw a Mossy shottie at a Zone shoot (I never did make it to Vandalia.)
ATAShooter
Member
Yea, I started out with a 199.00 870 from Kmart. After about a year of logging registered birds, I picked up my M12. Did very well with that, then bought a MX15 Perazzi. Couldn't master that, so I bought a used Ljutic, then onto a Seitz. I wound up going back to the M12. I think what beat me was my own mind.... meaning I expected the High dollar shotgun to do more than my skillset. I guess one would say, I was basically trying to buy a better score. So, I just practiced more to improve ME, not the shotgun. BTW... Vandalia, I LOVED Vandalia. Me and my Old Faithful (circa 1992 when I had no wrinkles and no gray hair):
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I remember back in the 80's a lot of guys in the gun clubs were a little snobby and cranky. Here in Arkansas now the military rifle match and IDPA people are just super. They are very welcoming, especially to newcomers. The only place where I ever shot trap was at a commercial club and they were fine.
we started with no snobs & have fun
Our gun club is in the process of growing itself from a rifle club to a generalist club.
The idea:
We noticed a lot of members -usually younger ones- were hand-throwing clays and decided to build a trap house, to ATA standards. We now have an established trap program run by a dynamic young man, not an "Old Boy snob" for we had none of those. Our target 'audience' was the under-40 set.
How we did it:
When trap night started out, you'd see a lot of duck guns and some tactical shotguns. That was fine as people had fun and got into the habit of coming back week after week.
We had a core of 3 older experienced competitors who helped others get started with what they brung without passing judgement. The old guys were patient for they knew what would inevitably happen: the younger shooters would outgrow their field guns....
At first we didn't even have score sheets, leaving it up to members' natural sense of competition to bring in that innovation. That didn't take long.
To help things along, the club strategically bought a few trap shotguns, under the pretext they'd be used to give brand new members a start, unhampered by a field gun. Gradually, members caught on to the difference and replaced most of their duck guns and all of the tac guns with trap guns of varying prices.
The results:
After 3 years, our membership is up, attendance is still growing. Some of our members shoot ATA registered targets, and travel the circuit. We have many women shooters, and shooters of all ages. There are several $2k to $6k guns, but field pumps are still seen on the line. We have generous sponsors, some of whom also participate in the game. We've already upgraded our thrower to a double-wobble setup. There's talk of building a 2nd trap house. This summer we will host several other clubs at our 2nd interclub match; the winning club takes home a nice trophy.
Trap is lots of fun without the snobs.
Our gun club is in the process of growing itself from a rifle club to a generalist club.
The idea:
We noticed a lot of members -usually younger ones- were hand-throwing clays and decided to build a trap house, to ATA standards. We now have an established trap program run by a dynamic young man, not an "Old Boy snob" for we had none of those. Our target 'audience' was the under-40 set.
How we did it:
When trap night started out, you'd see a lot of duck guns and some tactical shotguns. That was fine as people had fun and got into the habit of coming back week after week.
We had a core of 3 older experienced competitors who helped others get started with what they brung without passing judgement. The old guys were patient for they knew what would inevitably happen: the younger shooters would outgrow their field guns....
At first we didn't even have score sheets, leaving it up to members' natural sense of competition to bring in that innovation. That didn't take long.
To help things along, the club strategically bought a few trap shotguns, under the pretext they'd be used to give brand new members a start, unhampered by a field gun. Gradually, members caught on to the difference and replaced most of their duck guns and all of the tac guns with trap guns of varying prices.
The results:
After 3 years, our membership is up, attendance is still growing. Some of our members shoot ATA registered targets, and travel the circuit. We have many women shooters, and shooters of all ages. There are several $2k to $6k guns, but field pumps are still seen on the line. We have generous sponsors, some of whom also participate in the game. We've already upgraded our thrower to a double-wobble setup. There's talk of building a 2nd trap house. This summer we will host several other clubs at our 2nd interclub match; the winning club takes home a nice trophy.
Trap is lots of fun without the snobs.
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I belong to two local central IL clubs, one for 36 years so far. The "trap" club along the river is a little hard to become a part of but the guys, for the most part, are pretty decent. A few think they are special so I try to avoid them. The "sportsmen" club, which is more of a welcoming bunch, has a process for bringing in new members that is more personal.
Equipment at the "s" club is less of an issue though there are some big bucks guns there. At the ATA club you rarely see guns that aren't either vintage M12s, 21s, or are equipped with adjustable everything. That said, I have never had my 870TB put down or felt undergunned at either place.
I'm afraid I would have raised a stink if treated like you were in that match. It would not happen at either of my clubs.
Hang in there. If a club is worth joining, you won't have those kind of problems. I have shot at clubs all over the Midwest and guess I've been lucky. Never had anything that bad happen.
Equipment at the "s" club is less of an issue though there are some big bucks guns there. At the ATA club you rarely see guns that aren't either vintage M12s, 21s, or are equipped with adjustable everything. That said, I have never had my 870TB put down or felt undergunned at either place.
I'm afraid I would have raised a stink if treated like you were in that match. It would not happen at either of my clubs.
Hang in there. If a club is worth joining, you won't have those kind of problems. I have shot at clubs all over the Midwest and guess I've been lucky. Never had anything that bad happen.
bangswitch
Member
I don't know what they (Benelli, Krieghoff, Beretta, Franchi, etc) sell for, and don't really care. I doubt seriously I'll ever buy a really expensive shotgun unless I win the lottery, and then I'll start looking for some collectables, like an A.H.Fox.
My point was that what you own isn't as important as how well you can shoot what you have.
Armored farmer
Member
Shooting a high end trapgun makes you a snob?
Wearing a shooting shirt and a empty shell bag makes for a knowitall?
If you take up the sport and compete for ten years then look in the mirror...
No excuse for snobbish behavior though.
.
Wearing a shooting shirt and a empty shell bag makes for a knowitall?
If you take up the sport and compete for ten years then look in the mirror...
No excuse for snobbish behavior though.
.
Jim Watson
Member
After a few dabbles with borrowed guns, my first trap gun of my own was a second hand 1100TA. I thought I deserved something nicer and shot everything I could lay my hands on and bought, over time, a Model 12, two Brownings, and two Perazzis. Never could hit as well with anything as the 1100. It fit me and did not kick me around.
slumlord44
Member
Interesting discussion. You have snobs and jerks in all hobbies. Been a car nut since I was 15. Been involve in early T-Birds since 1965. Was president of the St. Louis T Bird club back in the 1970's. Wife quit going to activities many years ago because of snobs and holier than thou types. Hobbies are supposed to be fun. When people take things too seriously they are no longer fun.
I'm sorry to hear about your awful experience. The club sounds awful and I'd never go back if I were you, but please don't think that all trap clubs are like that. My trap club is well-run and welcoming, and I'm a 33-year-old guy with a pump-action. Our club has a teenager with a Mossberg pump who is one of our best youth shooters, and everyone is proud of him and his talent, not snotty about his shotgun...and some of these folks have Perazzis. There's nothing wrong with someone treating themself to a Perazzi if they have the means, and there's nothing wrong with someone shooting a Mossberg if that's what they like or can afford. Life's too short to worry about what other people own.
As for the comment about why trap has trouble attracting younger people, I think ammunition costs has a lot to do with that. Factory ammo is expensive in the volumes you need to improve at trap, and reloading takes a heapload of time. Younger folks tend to not have either in huge supply.
As for the comment about why trap has trouble attracting younger people, I think ammunition costs has a lot to do with that. Factory ammo is expensive in the volumes you need to improve at trap, and reloading takes a heapload of time. Younger folks tend to not have either in huge supply.
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Diverdave
Member
The old club that i joined was a lot closer to home. The people there were ok except for the guy who was explaining the travel trap league. He said "you are welcome to come but we probably never use your scores". So then I joined a club farther away on a conversation with an "on-line" buddy. These guys are great. Very friendly and helpful to new guys. Zero snobbery.
We have a sporting clays shoot in January. One of the very experience guys offered to help fit my new SKB 90TSS for me. Seriously check them out.
We have a sporting clays shoot in January. One of the very experience guys offered to help fit my new SKB 90TSS for me. Seriously check them out.
Sav .250
Member
Changing the rules on the fly....................... Now there`s a Gun Club that knows how to keep the money , in house,
barnbwt
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So you and your friends have supported an expensive and fantastic range for years, and some new punks show up with cheap gear and act like they own the place simply because they're young and can shoot a little better. With limited membership slots, what are they supposed to do, kick out long paying members? Then this attitude starts breeding justifications for prejudice against new blood, ultimately poisoning the entire endeavor.
My theory, anyway. An expensive shotgun is code for "I can afford pricey dues," which is more important for a nice club's survival than a bunch of cheapskates who can shoot well and wear out the clays throwers (which are beau coup dollars, btw, unlike most target equipment)
"My point was that what you own isn't as important as how well you can shoot what you have."
If you aren't willing or able to buy something nicer than a cheap 870, what are the odds you'll chip in extra to keep the range running when things get lean? Remember, these are private, not public clubs, who don't get the benefits of thousands of visitors with low expectations.
TCB
My theory, anyway. An expensive shotgun is code for "I can afford pricey dues," which is more important for a nice club's survival than a bunch of cheapskates who can shoot well and wear out the clays throwers (which are beau coup dollars, btw, unlike most target equipment)
"My point was that what you own isn't as important as how well you can shoot what you have."
If you aren't willing or able to buy something nicer than a cheap 870, what are the odds you'll chip in extra to keep the range running when things get lean? Remember, these are private, not public clubs, who don't get the benefits of thousands of visitors with low expectations.
TCB
CajunBass
Member
It's not just gun clubs. It's anywhere people gather together. I've seen it in bass fishing, and in my ex-wife's volunteer rescue squad, and my present wife sure saw it when she did medieval recreation...and Civil War reinactors, hunt clubs, and for that matter Sunday School classes. I've seen cliques in all of them. And I've seen all of them run a disorganized, screwed up events.
And I've seen them all operate with open arms and welcome newcomers, and put on outstanding events that everyone enjoyed. Mostly it just depends on who's in it, and how they do things.
And I've seen them all operate with open arms and welcome newcomers, and put on outstanding events that everyone enjoyed. Mostly it just depends on who's in it, and how they do things.
RUT
Member
Don't let the trap shooting crowd get you down. Give "sporting clays" a chance and you'll see a totally different mindset. We actually have fun doing it!
RUT
Member
>>Sounds a lot like ham radio<<
Yeah, ain't it the truth! When the last of us "old timers" are gone there won't be much left of it. Oh well, on the other hand there's only so many times you can give your QTH and WX report without getting totally bored.
Yeah, ain't it the truth! When the last of us "old timers" are gone there won't be much left of it. Oh well, on the other hand there's only so many times you can give your QTH and WX report without getting totally bored.
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