Probelms w/ Federal GMM 168SMK? (308win)

Some guns will have ammo preferences. Yours evidently doesn't like GMM.

My 308 Rem700 VS (benched, bipod front, bagged rear, 4.5-14 Leoupold Mildot scope, stock trigger) shoots teacup sized groups with 150gr A-Max bullets. With 168gr GMM the worst group was .75" (5 shots, 100yds), best was an astounding .114" (3 shots, 100yards).

I've always had pretty good luck with Federal GMM. I usually run the 175gr stuff but use the 168gr to zero or as play ammo for shorter distances. It's always shot sub MOA in my rifles. Your rifle may just not like it at all... Try the heavier stuff if you can find it as your rifle may like that bullet better.

Not trying to start an argument, but one three shot group really doesn't tell you much about a load, good OR bad.

I also have a hard time understanding how "tired eyes" would keep you from shooting five shot groups, unless you only fire three rounds per range trip, which according to your post, doesn't appear to be the case.

There's no time limit on how long you take to fire a particular group, be it 3, 5 or even 10 rounds. If you can't space your shots within groups so that tired eyes aren't a factor, why would you assume that starting another group is going to somehow make your eyes better?

Five shot groups aren't larger than three shot groups because your eyes get tired, they're larger because they're a much better reflection of the true accuracy potential of you, your rifle and your ammunition. They also make "lucky accidents" far less likely. Ten round groups make 'em almost impossible. I'm not trying to pick on you here, the same rules apply to just about everyone, me included.

You might also reconsider the rests you're using. While a prone position, backpack and a rag are great for practice or shooting in the field, they are in no way a substitute for a a bench and good bags when you're doing load testing and development.

You may not like what I've said, and I can guarantee you that shooting five or ten round groups will cut way down on the number of .3 inch "braggin' groups" you shoot, but over time it'll make you a better and far more confident rifle shot, with better, more consistent handloads.

As far as the FGMM group goes, my luck with that ammo has been excellent. The only groups I've shot with it that went over an inch were with my iron sighted M1A. In over 30 years of highpower shooting, I haven't seen any other ammunition that performs so well, so consistently, in so many different weapons as FGMM.

Have you angered any voodoo witch doctors lately?

i'll echo everything swampman mentioned. also, try using good sandbags. i've done some of me best shooting from prone off a bipod with a rear wedge bag. i do my load development this way as well due to the benches at my range being at an akward height. fgmm has never let me down.

GMM is going to be more CONSISTENT than most other loads, it doesnt mean it will be the most ACCURATE from your particular rifle.

I had a Ruger Tang safety .243 varmint rifle that would nearly pattern Win Silvertips and then punch .4" groups using Federal Power-Shok ....... Some rifles prefer cheap ammo (and we keep those rifles).

I would suspect that the rifle is cursed if it won't shoot GMM at least decently. I'd look very hard at scope, mounts, and action screws.

Not to get to far off the trail here, but I benchmark myself and my rifles off 3 shot groups.

When I work up a new load I will shoot 10 three shot groups and take the average from those 10 groups and that's my average group for that rifle/load.

It would be no different than shooting 6 five shot groups or 3 ten shot groups.

While I agree a single 3 shot group will tell you nothing, comparing multiple groups of whatever size is the best way to determine a true group size average.

On topic, Federal GMM has always been great for me. It's usually the factory load I buy for a new .308 to benchmark it.

Originally posted by: EchoM70
It would be no different than shooting 6 five shot groups or 3 ten shot groups.

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Using your method of fewer shots per group, I just shot 30, one shot groups at 100 yards with my rusty, smooth bored old Mossberg 500 loaded with beat up, home cast Lee slug culls, the leftover dregs from several different jugs of assorted shotgun and pistol powders and primers of varying age, type and manufacturer.

My average group size was 0.00 Inches!

My shotty and I are ready to take on the benchrest shooting world!



Your method wouldn't really give usefull accuracy data unless you overlaid the groups on top of one another (with your aiming point the same for all groups) and measured overall group size.

Otherwise, it wouldn't be much more meaningful than the satire I just posted.

I really have done quite a bit of work with "first shot, clean cold bore", one shot groups aggregated over a period of time.

Doing that kind of shooting will help you realize why the average shot taken by police snipers is so short.

I used 1 box of the Federal with my AR10. I wasn't impressed at all. I got 3" groups. My reloads with the same 168 SMK delivers .75 MOA or less. The Federal didn't perform any better than NATO surplus or at least not enough to warrant the extra $.

I don't find TNG's experience much different from my own. One of my AR's will not group a certain mfg 69 gr bullets, while another mfg 69 gr will clover leaf @100 yds. Giving that the powder, primer and case is identical.

Originally posted by: The_Next_Generation
I might pick up another box in the future to see if it was maybe that particular box. In all honesty I'm not sure that will happen, since I could just buy 100 projectiles instead that I know the rifle will like.

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Buy the components.
Next time let the "novice shooter" buy a box or two of FGMM and bring it along.

I said that it shoots accurately and consistently in my rifles.

I didn't say that I actually BUY any of it myself.

Besides, I'm not real fond of Federal rifle brass.
It usually only lasts four cycles for me, even in a bolt gun.
Hirtenberger will generally go 9 and that's in an M1A.

Using your method of fewer shots per group, I just shot 30, one shot groups at 100 yards with my rusty, smooth bored old Mossberg 500 loaded with beat up, home cast Lee slug culls, the leftover dregs from several different jugs of assorted shotgun and pistol powders and primers of varying age, type and manufacturer.

My average group size was 0.00 Inches!

My shotty and I are ready to take on the benchrest shooting world!

Click to expand...

No... Just no.

If you are consistently putting 3 shots under 1 MOA, then it's a safe bet you have a sub-Moa shooter and rifle.


But this thread isn't about groups, it's about federal GMM and it's performance. So I will not comment further on this topic, just keep in mind they are multiple ways to come to a conclusion, and different purposes require different standards. There isn't a one size fits all conclusion.