M&P rumor or fact?!?!

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JeeperCreeper

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Sorry if this has been beat to death, but searching yielded no answers for me.


Question: Do the M&P pistols made currently have many improvements over previous versions? Specifically the fullsize M&P9. Are there still accuracy issues that were rumored?

Improvements: I hear they have better triggers taken from the Shield line. I also hear that they improved the barrels (something about 2 dimples on the new barrels).

Rumors: I guess there were accuracy issues from the factory where people had to replace barrels. These rumors seem to stem around 2013.

Are these accurate shooting guns? I'm not Annie Oakley, but I like to be able to tag a tin can from a decent distance.
 
I haven't heard of any changes to the trigger lately (doesn't mean its not true).

They did change the twist rate on the barrels on newer production models though. Some early M&P 9mm's had trouble grouping - particularly with 147gr ammo. They changed the barrel design (at least once - possibly twice) to improve this and it has apparently helped some, though some people still report accuracy issues.

My 9L was made in December of 2010 so well before any of the design changes. It never seeemd to have TOO much trouble with 147gr ammo but I don't shoot for groups a whole lot. Just to see how much of a difference it would make though I'm having G&R Tactical fit a Storm Lake barrel to the slide now.
 
Shields....

I own a NIB(now about 5mo old) M&P Shield no thumb safety 9x19mm.
It was built & test-fired on 11/14/2014. I have not fired 100s of 9mm rounds thru the Shield yet so I can't honestly say the semi auto pistol's is rough or sub-standard. I did fire approx 150-200 rounds in the M&P Shield with no problems or major flaws.

Id look to see if the S&W Shield isn't a CA or MA compliant version.
A FFL holder/cadre on Youtube stated he was unhappy with his M&P Shield trigger until he checked the box & firearm, learning it was a MA sales model, :rolleyes: .
The FFL holder put a APEX trigger into the Shield. He said the modifications were + & improved the trigger pull/shooting feel.

I might add Cerakote SOCOM Blue & the new TruGlo TFX night sights to my Shield 9x19mm but I may keep the trigger stock.
 
My M&P 9c was built in July, 2012.

It has performed flawlessly.

I've been a 1911 guy for many, many, years, and I find the 9c's trigger to be perfectly fine. And it puts the bullet where I aim it. I use 124s mostly, and most of them are reloads. But 115s work too. Never have fired any 147s through it.

Get one, you'll love it.
 
I have an M&P9 from a couple of years ago. I never experienced any of the accuracy issues. The stock trigger does have a bit of a false reset, but it's really not an issue unless you try to ride the reset really precisely... which I have concluded is pointless for me, so it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. As for the trigger break... it's a striker-fired polymer gun, so it's got a trigger break that feels like a striker-fired polymer gun. It's fine. Not great. Fine.
 
To make something clear that the OP stated. The accuracy Problems with the M & P were confined to the full size version of the gun. I have not heard of similar complaints with the Shield or M & P 9C . And as someone who worked with some Police Armorers for a Police supply company I can assure you that in the early M & P 9 Full size guns there were issues. And it wasn't every gun, but when a department got an order 3-4 guns out of 20 weren't capable of 5" groups at 25 yards while the others shot just fine. Most armorers felt their were lock up issues confined to the full size. As others here have eluded, Smith has tacitly admitted the problem themselves by redesigning the barrel three times.
 
It was simply a matter of S&W prioritizing the .40 FS over the 9mm. The lockup of the barrels was optimized for the characteristics of the .40 and they just kept them the same for the 9mm models.

As with the early striker problems, S&W has been incorporating ongoing changes in the line.

I've seen some later models with barrels fitted much like Stormlake does and there seem to have been other changes to accommodate the 9mm owners.

The newer M&Ps seem to have an smoother striker block (smoother trigger pull) and they have added a bump to the slide stop lever assembly to give a more audible reset (not the greatest solution).

The Apex Tactical trigger parts still offer an improvement over the factory trigger (yes, even the Performance Center triggers) and they are in final testing of their barrel which has been showing great accuracy with 147gr bullets.

I just wish they'd get this stuff finished and get back to work on the .22lr conversion ;)...but I think the trigger bar is next
 
M&P Full Size parts (long)

The trigger bar has gone through 3 generations so far (blank, S and H). What you get is completely the luck of the draw. You may have a year old M&P FS with the latest trigger bar or you might buy one a few years from now with the first generation bar.

Same goes for the striker block. The old ones caused a gritty take up (goes away eventually). You could also get the newer slide stop or the old one. The newer ones do give better tactile reset, but are also beefier at the 90 degree bend. The older ones had a weak point and can snap off at the 90 degree bend either from using the slide stop as a slide release or simply from lots of use. No matter, S&W will replace it for free if it ever breaks.

The sear housing block also comes in multiple flavors. The old one used a weaker 1/16" sear return spring. The newer one comes with a beefier 1/8" spring. If you buy the Apex upgrades, you must have the 1/8" version. Don't bank on vendors like Brownells to have the latest and greatest parts. Last year I needed to get the 1/8" housing block when I did the Apex FSS trigger kit and found out that my 2011 M&P40 had the 1/16" spring (even though the new design was supposedly incorporated more than a year earlier). Luckily Brownells sent me the housing with the larger spring.

This past month, I bought a trigger bar and slide stop from Brownells when they finally got them back in stock. You guessed it, old parts :cuss: I'm glad I didn't wind up with the 1/16" spring in the sear housing block I bought last year.

A year ago I tried out an M&P 45 at a Sportsman's Warehouse in Wichita and pulling the trigger was like dragging it through gravel.

I've been told other gun manufacturers do the same thing. If parts are laying around and they are form/fit/function equivalent to the original specs, they go into the production line and you get what you get. At least with S&W, if the part fails with normal use, they replace it for free. They've done it for me with the slide stop, recoil spring and magazine springs.

I can't really ask for more than that.
 
Wake-up calls ....

I think the recent changes by major US law enforcement agencies like the Los Angeles County CA sheriff's & the Texas DPS to the M&P 9x19mm made the execs & Smith and Wesson factory supervisors have a real wake-up.
I read and heard rumors(unconfirmed but solid) the LAPD was considering switching from Glocks and older Berettas to a uniform M&P in .40 or 9mm with the frame safety.
The .45acp may be added too since many street cops in Los Angeles are still twitchy since the awful 1997 North Hollywood BoA shoot-out, :uhoh: .

Rusty
 
all newer production m&p pistols made after november 2013 have the improved trigger and yes s&w has improved the barrels for the m&p 9 to improve accuracy.
 
Yes, "rolling improvements" as their armorer instructor puts it, is in fact applied. Where S&W screwed up is consitency and tranparency regarding updated parts and availability of the updated parts.

I read and heard rumors(unconfirmed but solid) the LAPD was considering switching from Glocks and older Berettas to a uniform M&P in .40 or 9mm with the frame safety.

LAPD was alreay issueing M&P9 to new recruits for a while. The academy graguates with them are hitting the streets from few months ago now.

Even before recruit issue, personal purchase was approved a long time ago, so there were in service personnel who bought and qualified with it carrying it for about over a year now.

I talked to a few of them. 9mm, 40S&W, and 45ACP versions are all approved. What drew my attention was the backstrap one of them had which had the pro texture, and I found out that even the pro models are approved.
 
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The Pro model has a better trigger than the standard ones, still not Apex better though. The dimples on the barrel only indicate to the factory which machine they were produced on.
 
Texas DPS, City of Angels....

I'm not a Texan or live in the Lone Star State but from what I heard/read, the Texas DPS went back to SIG Sauer P220Rs & P226Rs(.357sig) until Smith and Wesson could re-do the entire contract line for M&P 9mm sidearms.

If I were a LAPD officer or detective, Id carry a M&P .45acp with a 5" barrel. Id use the manual safety version with night sights. If I worked uniform Id carry the M&P with a 14rd pistol magazine then keep 2/3 10rd .45acp spare mags.
 
While things have gotten better, it's still somewhat of a crap shoot.

I read one account that the problem lies with the high temperature the stainless slide is subjected to in the finish process- that is why high quality aftermarket barrels never were the "solution" to pistols plagued with accuracy problems.

YMMV
 
I have an old police trade in M&P 40 (stamped with the "stainless" on the slide" and 2013/2014 models of the 9 (FS and Compact). I can tell you with 100% certainty that the hard sears on the newer models are different. They are closer to the APEX sear. They have the tear drop shape on the side. In fact, I replaced the hard sears on the 9 FS and 9C with APEX parts then took the 9 FS stock hard sear and put it on the 40. Big difference.
 
LAPDonline.org .....

I just looked over www.LAPDonline.org & the M&P pistols are not listed under the list of LAPD weapons(sidearms).
Only a few of the older S&W 3rd gen series in different calibers are listed.
This site or data may have not been updated yet. Some LE sites are slow to add new information or update material.

It's strange too that the LAPD allows sworn officers to carry the Glock 21 .45acp but not the Glock 36 or compact 30 models, :confused: .
I do know the elite detectives of the SIS helped co-design-create Glock's 30S .45acp pistol so that LAPD list may not be the formal SOP.
 
I appreciate the LAPD info, but I'm looking to purchase a new handgun... And I'm neither LAPD nor even in LA nor part of any PD.

Does the m&p 9c have better barrels over the full size?
 
I've been shooting an M&P CORE 9L (2013 date) for a year and a half/6600 rounds so far, and it's turning into my favorite pistol (after an Apex trigger/FSS sear). The OEM trigger isn't bad but the Apex is a great improvement.

Shoots pretty accurately for my purposes (shooting steel). I have had no complaints. YMMV.

Match video for any interested. https://youtu.be/AzdxsXx7ryg?t=1m5s
 
Yes, as others have stated, there have been continual ongoing revisions, refinements and manufacturing changes among the M&P's and their parts, going back to just about their official release in Jan '06.

From my first M&P pistol armorer class in '07, and throughout the subsequent recert classes (and calling back to the factory), I've learned of continual changes and product line rolling improvements within the model line.

It would make too long of a list to try and write down all the changes of which I've learned, but to answer the OP's question, yes, there have been some improvements made to the M&P 9's, including barrel revisions to resolve some erratically reported accuracy issues.

The last few recent production M&P 9's I've personally handled & fired, and have observed being fired, all exhibited very good inherent accuracy with some different loads.

The latest round of improvements commonly talked about when someone wants to discuss "triggers" has been called the "enhanced changes" in armorer classes. They include the slide stop lever assembly (yellow wire spring and the welded bumps on the inside of the lever); PC sear; and the 'H'=bar trigger bar assembly (better engagement with the sear using the H-bar trigger).

There's been a change in angle of the trigger bar loop (called by various names among internet enthusiasts and hobbyists). The 'S' bar has a 32 degree angle and the 'H' bar has a 40 degree angle.

FWIW, the new trigger bars are needed to help keep the trigger pull weight at normal spec, meaning not too light, and within the desired range for service/duty weapons (commonly expressed as being approx 5-6 lbs for service weapons). The Pro Series have a different/lower trigger pull weight spec, but they weren't designed as duty weapons.

There's a +/- of 2 lbs for the stock M&P pistols (and the .45's have approx a half a pound higher normal weight than the 9/.40/.357 models). Last I heard, the parts for the "enhanced changes" in the .45 models still haven't finished testing and approval for the .45's.

FWIW, there's been a small change to the sear housing blocks and newer frames, of a nature so that newest sear housing blocks won't fit into the older production frames. After learning of this in my last recert, I confirmed it by trying a new production block in a 2010 production 40c, and the new block didn't conform to the frame and fit in it. Things like this can be checked by the company (like for armorers), as their new computer parts system no longer lists general parts for M&P pistol models, but looks up a specific serial number to find the appropriate parts for a specific gun.

Also FWIW ... Yes, last I was told, LAPD has been issuing M&P 9's to new officers graduating their academy for going on 2 years, and they've reportedly been very, very pleased with them. (Still have a list of approved weapons that can be bought & used.) I was also told the LAPD shooting team has been very satisfied with their M&P's (and have been exploring some of their own refinements for dedicated competition guns ;) ).

LASD has had enough time to try to wear out a number of T&E M&P's in recent years, and have also been very, very pleased with the guns. Hence, the huge order for them. I was also interested to learn that their huge order of M&P's included a small percentage of .40's, but the significant bulk of the guns are M&P 9's.

It's not been officially released, so it's not for me to identify the agency, but another major West Coast agency has been in the process of replacing their existing metal-framed compact .40's with M&P 40c's (after testing some various plastic-framed .40's on the market).

Shooting even the older M&P's can do a lot to smooth and lighten the "triggers". One of the other instructors has a M&P 9 from before the "enhancements", and while his trigger started at approx 7 lbs, after he'd been shooting & carrying it for a couple of years, the next time he checked it the trigger pull it was averaging close to 4 1/2 lbs, with stock parts.

I had my '08 production M&P 45 give me some initial out-of-the-box trigger averages of 8 1/2 - 9 lbs :eek: (accuracy was still excellent, but I had to treat it almost like one of my DA/DAO revolvers). After I'd run a couple thousand rounds through it, I checked the pull weight again (as I realized it was feeling really light & smooth), and got an average of about 5 1/2 lbs (closely approximating the trigger pull of the same M&P 45 model that another instructor/armorer used, and in which he'd tried some aftermarket parts).

Of course, a bit later I got around to trying one of the then-newly revised striker assemblies, and a MA-compliant sear housing block (because it already had the large sear plunger & spring as part of the parts used to boost trigger pull weight for MA-complaint guns) ... and I found the trigger pull was back to about 7 1/2 lbs. I haven't checked it since then, but it's once again become smoother and seemingly lighter.

I don't dabble with aftermarket M&P parts because I only use mine for dedicated off-duty/retirement weapons (although I'll be receiving a new issued M&P in the near future, since I'm still working as a reserve as part of my instructor/armorer duties). I don't participate in competition, either. However, a recent production M&P 9 Pro 5" I tried on the range (another instructor's) had an outstanding trigger.
 
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hey fastbolt its California highway patrol There looking to replace there s&w 4006 pistols
 
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