The Great Debate: Which Progressive Press?

I don't own any of the above however, if given the choice, I would pick the Hornady.

Michael

I have a Hornady and have not used the Dillon. I would not get the Hornady. Dillon seems to be the best bet.

The USPSA (The US affiliate of IPSC) often does surveys at large matches to determine what's being used in terms of guns, calibers, reloading gear etc. Dillon always has 95% or more percent of that market, and these are guys who shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year.

I'm on my 3rd Dillon press, had two SDB's, then bought a XL 650 on which I load .45, 40, .308, and .44RM. If I had to do it again, I'd buy the Dillon 1050 instead.

-z

I'm on my 2nd progressive.

Started with a Lee Loadmaster. Not recommended in my experience. Primer handling was not well executed and easily damaged.

I use an RCBS Pro-2000 now. I especially like the APS strip priming, but some dislike the press because of that feature. Shellplate changes are relatively quick if you have the star plates on each of your shellplates. It takes 3 allen wrenches to change the shellplate, case kicker, and the little wire that holds the case in station 1. Changing primer punches is very quick, as is the die plate. I'm a big fan of the Uniflow with the micrometer stem. Being cast iron, it's very heavy and a solid, no flex press. Volume for pistol calibers is great as long as you have the primer strips loaded up (that doesn't take long either). Bottleneck cartidges on a progressive press is a bit slower because of the likely need to trim the cases after sizing (Dillon does have a power trimmer attachment for this). I like the station arrangement RCBS used. Works great to keep my right hand on the handle all the time and insert cases and bullets and turn the shell holder with my left. Very quick when you get in the groove.

I bought mine used and it was missing a few small parts. RCBS customer service was outstanding in getting replacement parts to me free of charge, even though I bought it used, as is.

i have a square deal b. i voted for the rl550b

I picked the Pro 2000 for the ease of caliber change, APS priming system and the low cost of loading multiple calibers. If I were going to ignore expense, or load only one caliber, I would prefer the Dillon 650, or 1050. As soon as I have more space, I'm buying a 1050 and dedicating it to .45 ACP.

I have two 550's, and have used the 650 and 1000 and 1050 enough to know them. Your volume can easily be met in less than 5 hours per month on a single 550. That said it can be met in less than 3 hours on a 650, and less than 3 hours on a 1050. The key difference is the 550 converts in less than 2 minutes, the 650 in 5 minutes and the 1050 in 8-10 minutes. The 1050 is absolutely positively the way to go if you can afford it. Buying several months worth of components will save a lot of money, and you can load an honest 1000 per hour with EASE!!!! Changeover on the 1050 takes a while, if you load just one caliber it will easily do 1200 per hour!! With the 650 you can load 700 per hour at a good clip if you paid for the casefeeder. With the 550 you can load 400 per hour but you can't be messing around, you need to be focused and ready. BTW, all my loading rates are sustained rates taking into account primer filling, powder filling etc, not 100 rounds timed run multiplied out for a false number per hour.

In your situation if funds were limited to $600 I would go with the 550, and you will be THRILLED with it!!! If you can spring $1100 the 650 is even better, it will do everything the 550 does and do it faster with less work. If you can find another $1000 on top of the 650 you can outfit a 1050 with all the other calibers OR add a 550 or 650 to it for the lower volume shooter calibers and have THE best press money can buy for primary calibers and super equipment to take care of the low volume calibers. A 1050 and a 550 would be my choice on an unlimited budget. 1050 for high runners and 550 for everything else I would ever reload.

The 650 without the case feeder isn't slower than the 550, but it is not any easier to feed nor is it any faster.

I voted for the Dillon 650 because of the auto indexing.

The auto-indexing feature of the XL 650 is an advantage because it reduces human error - you can't forget to index the plate and double-charge a case beacuse the machine automatically proceeds.

When you add the casefeeder, it's real fast. Leave right hand on lever, place bullet on open casemouth with left-hand, and crank. I couldn't believe how fast I could turn out .45ACP rounds.

-z

I had a Dillon 550 and sold it to buy a Hornady LnL AP with casefeeder; I couldn't be happier. The post-7000 Hornadys (with updated primer feed) beat the pants off the Dillons in every respect. I especially like the bushings and powder measure -- the Dillon powder measure is stoneage compared to the Hornady measure. The LnL AP really shines if you load many different calibers; there is none faster when it comes to conversion speed. It should also be more rigid than any of the others since it has a solid (rather than removeable) top plate.

There are big blue boatloads of Dillon apologists on the internet, most of whom have never used anything but a Dillon. The Hornady LnL AP deserves equal consideration.

BTW, can the bushings be switched between a single station & progressive presses without adjustment?

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Yes, but it may require some shimming. I have a (shimmed) LnL conversion bushing in my Lee Classic Cast, and both it and my LnL AP yield the exact same OAL for a given die.

The 650 without the case feeder isn't slower than the 550, but it is not any easier to feed nor is it any faster.

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I guess the only difference would be the 650 is auto-indexing where the 550B is not. I have 2 550B's and while a 550 would certainly fill your needs a 650 would probably be the best bet. With the option of adding a casefeeder you could always upgrade if you need too.

I don't feel auto-indexing is any help to a beginner, and I don't believe manual indexing is a hindrance at all. I wouldn't base my choice on that - but rather which press will meet your future needs.

Although I have 2 Dillons and a Mec and 2 Lyman Turrets, I believe the ultimate reloader to which all others should be compared is the Star. Quantrill

Don't overlook the fact that the 550 is a four station press whereas the 650 is a five station. Using a powder check in the 3rd position really can give you peace of mind and still allow for separate seating and crimping.

Caliber conversions are cheaper too. $53.84 for the 550, $78.28 for the 650 & only $38.37 for the Hornady.

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Caliber conversions for the 550B are $34.95 from Dillon or $32.95 from Brian Enos. I just sold .223 and 9mm conv. kits for $30 ea. shipped.

There are big blue boatloads of Dillon apologists on the internet, most of whom have never used anything but a Dillon. The Hornady LnL AP deserves equal consideration.

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Why guys always have to stick in a snide remark about Dillon owners is beyond me. Apologists? I don't think so. All the top shooters load on Hornaday machines? No, they load on Dillon. I wonder why.

I voted for the 650. I have a 550 now and couldn't be happier with it but I want to go faster. 500-600+ rounds an hour just isn't enough.

My LnL AP manual says that all Hornady reloading tools are warrantied against manufacturing defects and workmanship for the life of the product, excluding components subject to wear. I've never had to deal with Hornady customer service before, but I've talked with people who have, and never have I heard anyone paint so grim a picture of it as you have. There's no doubt that the Dillon warranty is the best in the industry, but frankly I'd rather not pay for a warranty that freely refurbishes a rusty stripped downed press but off of eBay (and you do pay for it). That's just silly.

Regarding small parts on the Hornady, the LnL has fewer "small parts" than my 550 did (and is less "busier" in operation, though that's subjective of course). The only part subject to breakage is the cartridge retainer spring; you can buy spares for a few bucks a piece. Until you become familiar with the press, you'll probably mangle one or two in the beginning. All in all the build quality of the Hornady is probably better than the Dillon -- beefier frame, bigger ram, zerk fittings for lubrication, spent primer tube to keep the press so much cleaner, etc.

Modifying the Hornady measure for powder-through-expansion shouldn't require any special tools. Just buy the Lyman expander funnels, and get some hex nuts to screw onto the threaded part of the funnels. A few strokes of a rasp at the corners of the nuts will make them fit down the powder die. Adjust the nut on the funnel so that the combined length of the funnel and the shorter rifle bushing is the same as that of the pistol bushing. Then secure the nut with loctite.

That said, I still expand and charge in separate steps, and prefer the hornady taper crimp die to the Lee FC. As you said, the pistol FC die can be made to work in the LnL's fifth station, but note that the rifle FC die is wholly incompatible with the fifth station.

Caliber conversion (excluding dies) for the LnL consists of a new shellplate (if needed), LnL bushings, and a powder die. The cost of the Hornady conversion is even cheaper if you consider that most people buy a new Dillon powder measure for each and every conversion. You can get the same effect with a single Hornady powder measure micrometer insert and drain funnel (just record the micrometer settings for each load).

Shims do not come with the LnL conversion bushing; interchangability with a LnL press is not an advertised (nor intended I'd imagine) feature. The OALs on my LnL AP and Classic Cast were close enough that I ended up using pieces of foil as shims.

You can use the Hornady measure stand alone. Probably the best way to do this would be to leave it set up as case-activated, and just snap it into a single stage press with an LnL conversion bushing.

I hate you guys. I could only afford the Rockchucker Supreme. One day, perhaps....

I just went through this same debate. I bought the Hornady. My records show that I just topped 5,000 rounds of 9mm since March 21, 2004. The Hornady isn't perfect. I have never used Dillon. I get very consistent powder and length. I use the Lee fcd. The Hornady ejector spring interferes with it, so I removed the spring. I think I load faster without the spring. I have no complaints about the primer feed. If it gets dirty it needs cleaned.

I just ordered a new setup for the .40. Went through Bose's guns.10MM/40 S&W

Part#: hor544533
Manufacturer Part#: 544533 dies
(Qty: 1 x $29.08)
Case Feeder Plate LG Pistol
Part#: hor095312
Manufacturer Part#: 095312
(Qty: 1 x $22.34)
Shellplate # 10
Part#: hor392610
Manufacturer Part#: 392610
(Qty: 1 x $21.66)
40 CAL S&W, 10MM AUTO-Taper Carbide Factory Crimp
Part#: Lee90862
Manufacturer Part#: 90862
(Qty: 1 x $10.79)

I had ordered enough of the bushings earlier, but there is the additional cost of the four bushings.

I average 300 rounds per hour without any effort. Trying to go faster makes it work.

I also own a whole bunch of Mac computers. Maybe that's the mentality here, knee jerk reaction to avoid going with the majority?

I also liked these threads:
http://www.cs.odu.edu/~rtompkin/hornady/blue.php
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=7127&page=1&pp=15&highlight=hornaday

For the amount of rounds you shoot and the amount of calibers you reload, I'd plan on several "loaders" down the road if you really want to save time.

Not that you want to spend that kind of money right now, but I'd keep it in mind for the future if you start buying conversions kits, etc. Probably easier to load on similiar operation machines, somewhat I would guess. For example, if you choose Dillon and a 650, you can always buy cheaper SDBs for moderate volume on calibers that you may not change much etc. Or just buy 550's as money allows...one set up for large, the other for small primers etc.

Just a thought if time is an issue. If you "enjoy" reloading then one machine.

I shoot about 3000 rds or 45/mo, plus lots of 308, 223, 44 and 357. Load a total of 8 different cartridges, some in more than one recipe. The 550B is more than enough press for me. You don't need a caliber conversion for each, ex. 45ACP and 308Win use the same shell plate and pins, you just need the ($6) powder funnel. I've invested a good deal of money in this setup, but its the last dollar I'll ever spend on the press unless I add another cartridge to the list: the Dillon support and warranty more than offset any perceived difference in initial cost.

I've played with others, but will stick with a Dillon for serious reloading duty.