Wanting a Katana, but needing a prybar

Status
Not open for further replies.
You can try looking at the swords offered by Himalayan Imports

I had a smaller short sword from them and still have two kukris- absolutely top notch. Gods- their kukris are amazing. Everything is hand forged by kamis using 5160. Some of the swords are right around your price range.
 
Kookla said:
You can try looking at the swords offered by Himalayan Imports

I had a smaller short sword from them and still have two kukris- absolutely top notch. Gods- their kukris are amazing. Everything is hand forged by kamis using 5160. Some of the swords are right around your price range.
Click to expand...
I was going to suggest this with the caveat that it does NOT handle like a katana. I love mine. It was made by Bura and it's a monstrous bruiser of a sword, but it's rather clumsy. Good for me as I have no real training with a kat, but if you want a "real deal" that is still a beater, I would look elsewhere. That said, man, it is a brute. Sharp as a devil and as durable as they come.
 
I'll second that the HI swords are tough, but do not handle like a katana used for cutting should.
 
That Katana i bought for just under $200 is nice, thats the 9260 spring steel one, but it feels really light to me, obviously i was thinking of prybar physics, i doubt i could get the mindset to use one professionally, instead i am upgrading my shooting tools, the blade looks nice in its saya up on my shelf above the tv.

Tools of a bygone era, and reminds me of the Obi Won saying about those that used them.
 
I had a similar journey in that I was looking for something as a present that was not crap. I started with Cold Steel. I had purchased a Cold Steel sword for fun a few years ago. My sense is that they are too heavy. Kept looking. I ended up at the Kult of Athena. I didn't want to spend $1000 period. I ended up with a practice level sword with imperfections priced in the $500 area. I liked it a lot. I feel you should bump your price up a bit.
 
I am not a swordsman, but I know a few.
There was a fit of buying Paul Chen swords here a while back. Everybody was satisfied, except the one guy who thought bigger was better and got the longest blade and handle they made. Might do ok for ceremonial beheading of bullocks.
But MY, the prices are up. Out of OP's range by a lot.

I looked at the assorted Cold Steel swords at SHOT one year. Even my unschooled hand and eye could tell they were big and heavy, unwieldy feeling. The company rep was a great big guy and it looked like everything was made for him and not an average student, much less a Medieval soldier.

One of the fellows here, local martial arts coach, has a real Japanese antique and you can tell it was made for business, not sport or show. Feels like a snake in the hand, just Alive. Makes you want to go out and butcher some peasants.
 
I wouldn't buy anything less than the custom Katana's from Sword Buyer's Guide. Decent stuff for the price.
Click to expand...

The SBG sword I handled wasn't very good.
 
What's the best one for $400-500 then? Maybe I should upgrade, or swap.
Click to expand...

None of this applies if you just want a decorative katana. If you want a serious training tool, then read on.

Katanas are all over the place in terms of quality, authenticity, etc. Don't think you're getting a deal just because its price is within your budget. (The context on the previous comment was my instructor would not allow the student who owned that SBG katana to use it to cut. He inspected it and felt it was not safe to use.)

The JSA guys I know won't even look at swords under $1,000 for any sort of serious cutting.** This tells me quite a bit about the state of the market. The recommendation I received from them is to buy either a Bugei or MAS katana (martialartsswords.com). They said if I wanted to get something cheaper, then a Hanwei Shinto was the lowest cost katana they recommend (it's $595 at Kult of Athena). This is not snobbery at all; they made these recommendations based upon serious training goals.

Keep in mind that several of these guys have purchased newly made custom katanas in the $5,000-10,000 range. That's a bit over the top as far as I am concerned but the people in question wanted certain attributes not present in production katanas. Again, this is not snobbery; it's a demand for perfection in the product and they're willing to pay for it. These same guys own low end swords too--but those swords do not show up in the dojo.

Therefore, the answer to your question is: none. The closest katana to the $500 limit recommended *to me* by serious JSA practitioners is the Hanwei Shinto for $595 + shipping.



** You may be able to get a significant discount if you're a member of a JSA group. Check around.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I dunno... seems to be snobbery to think you can't get a good usable katana for under $400 or even $300. Again, going back to my original post, suggesting some designer hand-fabricated blade for over $500 and especially into the 4 digit area is pure nonsense. I'm not running some magical mystical blade of the black dragon dojo here... ;) Just looking for what we can all agree would be a weapon quality sword that will last and hold an edge and be pleasing to the eye without sacrificing a mortgage payment...:cool:

It's not rocket science. The raw materials aren't very expensive and the skill to sharpen and assemble isn't a mystical lost art. Steel, even the nice stuff, is a few dollars a pound. Heck even assuming it's $1-2 per oz the metal used in a sword is what, 30 oz. The rest of the basic materials are very low cost (a few ounces in a hardwood handle, silk/leather wrap, and iron guard/pommel, a bit of brass, and a wood sheath). Throw in some heat treating, iron accessories and handle material and wrap, and overseas manual labor (at pennies or a couple dollars per hour) to pound out the imperfections, sharpen the blade, and assemble the item...

Plenty of weapon quality large knives in the $50 range (Kbar/Becker, Cold Steel, Gerber, Buck, etc.). Being generous and multiplying that by 5 (terms of size and effort) still comes in at sub-$300 or even 10-fold gets you $500...

Unconvinced that one needs to even come close to the 4 digit range, and am pretty confident one can get there with a $300 real full-tang 1095 weapon with some nice accents.

Did anyone even look at the links I posted in the first thread??
 
Last edited:
I agree. My SBG sword looks very good, and is high quality. I don't understand what the $1000+ swords have over that. But then, I haven't gone around killing zombies to test it.
 
Well it may seem like snobbery but you are asking for a very specialized niche item
and hoping to pay walmart prices

best of luck with that

Oh nevermind
 
Last edited:
What part of "The sword is not safe to use for cutting" did you not understand?

My SBG sword looks very good, and is high quality.
Click to expand...

Great! How did you come to that conclusion? Are you experienced in evaluating swords? I hope your sword is an excellent practical cutter.

My European sword cost me $300 used. It's an Angus Trim AT1555 needed some TLC (oil and sandpaper). It is a great sword that cost the original owner around $500 new at the time it was built (early 2000s). I have absolutely no problem with its price point because the sword is built properly and will last a very long time.

Looking good and being built properly are completely different things. Katanas seem to be all over the place and SBG katanas are no exception. The issue with this particular SBG sword was the tang did not extend far enough into the handle. The only thing holding it together was a single pin (as I understand the conversation). The instructor would not allow it to be used for cutting. The swords used that day were all over the place--from Albions and A&A to cheap a Windlass Europoean sword (and it broke at the pommel and the user stopped the swing so the blade didn't go flying into the crowd).

The actual problem is many vendors do not make their swords properly for cutting. This is why I asked serious JSA guys what to get. They know what is good and works for training. They understand the sword, how it works and why you want certain features for safety. If you cannot understand that manufacturers are cutting corners and producing swords that are unsafe, then please do not buy a sword. This is not 'snobbery'; it's practical sword safety--which should be treated like guns. You are risking the lives of yourself and others because a broken blade can be as dangerous as a negligently discharged bullet.
 
Last edited:
Of course it's full tang. And it cuts bamboo just fine. Why would you assume it wasn't?
 
It isnt snobbery so much as what it takes to get a GOOD blade.

If you look at a traditional forged/folded blade, they actually had multiple different hardnesses to them. You had the edge, the spine, and even the core of it was a different hardness. They would use different quality of steel (based on grain, etc) for the different components. Its a crazy amount of work and very difficult to get right. Those swords cost thousands of dollars.

I have a wakisashi that is full tang, supposedly machine forged (I cant see forging marks, but I might not be able to depending on final grind/etc) that the old man got for 500 from Judo Karate International years ago (I think.. its been well over a decade and I'm not the one that purchased it). I dont know the maker. I know I have cut through 1.5" diameter oak (green) when trimming things down with it. Its not really designed for heavy duty cutting. It weighs 30 grams easily.

My old man also has a blade that was ground, not forged. I dont know what he paid for it, but it came to him in rough grind.. That thing he polished, made the scabbard and handle (I'm not up on terminology). Didnt use same (the ray skin?) and skipped the silk wrap for something more utilitarian. He can shave with it, and it would cut through an ox. Its probably closer to 60-70 grams. I also know he paid quite a bit more for the heavy duty blade. Its got a true hamon on it as well. The cheap swords usually dont have a real differentially heat treated blade, and the hamon on them is applied by polishing differently or chemically etched in...

Oh, and Lead.. folks pay 100+ for a well made knife that holds an edge well. I have a knife at the house that was 300 (I didnt pay it, but someone did when they had it ground) that is made from a file.. and I can see why they paid that much for it. Your price range is custom knife, and about 3x what a lot of folks are willing to pay for a duty use, every day knife.. Long blades are harder to get right.
 
Last edited:
A sword weighing 30 grams or 60 or 70 grams is unlikely, being that the conversion is about 28 grams to the ounce. Do you mean 30 oz, 60-70 oz?

I have noticed that antique and good reproduction swords tend to weigh 2 to 2.5 lbs... about the same as a good pistol. Sidearms have changed over the centuries but hand size hasn't.
 
Jim, yes, oz not grams.. thanks for the catch. I'm gonna leave my ignorance on display for the rest of yall :) Yeah, I'd say my waki is probably close to the 2 lb mark, maybe a hair higher. His expensive one is at least double that weight, but balanced better.

Old man says my waki is a cheness.. 9260 ones are good for cutting says he. That would be sub 300 for that blade. - also eliminates it as a forged blade
 
Last edited:
Price depends upon what you want to do with any sword once you disregard ornimentation. Will it cut the materials you want it to cut without damage to the blade and do it hundreds upon hundreds of times? Is the sword built so that it cuts fluidly and comfortably? To do those simple sounding things is the result of both remarkable skill and technology at the hands of a talented craftsman. It may seem that someone could do this all with computer controlled equipment, and it can be done. It just isn't inexpensive since there's no economy of scale involved in doing so.

Opinions that there is no reason for a cutting sword to cost more than some low price like $100 are based on ignorance and is no more reasonable than thinking that all guns should be in the same price range as Lorcins or Ravens much less HiPoints.

Just as there are IPSC suitable pistols for less than half of the top competitive guns there are suitable cutting swords that can be had, but not at Dollar Store equivalents.
 
Last edited:
HSO - I completely agree. Balance of a sword in YOUR hand is very important. You can CNC a blade to fit x dimensions, cut it from high quality tool steel, differentially treat it.. and it still wont be any better than a fire ax if its not right for you. But at least it would be a durable fire ax :D
 
Tom - LOL.

My waki I love the balance, but its too short of a hilt. 1 hand, not even 1.5 hands.

My old mans heavy blade.. he loves it, a man named George Alexander likes it (cut bamboo with it and said he never felt it hit.. just through it like butter). Not so much for me.. but I'm not a swordsman either lol.
 
I know the guy the tip broke off and hit. In spite of the apparent lightness made on set, he was rushed to the ER and it took quite a few stitches and tense moments patching up the wound.
 
I've been happy with the handling and performance of the Cas Paul Chen Practical Plus and Practical Pro katanas for reasonably priced pieces, but I haven't handled any current production this year and can't tell you what they're like right at this moment.
Click to expand...
I've studied Japanse MA for decades including a bit of sword work over that time, but I make no claim at being an expert. That said, the Paul Chen/Hanwei "Practical" or "Tactical" swords probably represent the minimum I would consider for real-life use. I understand the OP has a budget, but as with many things, you generally get what you pay for and a $1000 sword is going to be noticably better than a $300 sword. If you can't afford at least the cost of a Paul Chen, you are better off not even buying a sword.

If the OP has no previous experince with Japanese swords (which are different in technique and construction that most European swords), you might also consider a wakizashi, instead of a katana. They are of similar construction, but while a katana may have a blade 36" or longer, a wakizashi will generally be closer to 24". Such a smaller blade is both easier to handle, harder to break, and it is also more practical in the typical indoor setting. Finally, it will be a bit cheaper than a longer katana of the same quality.
 
Last edited:
mdauben said:
I've studied Japanse MA for decades including a bit of sword work over that time, but I make no claim at being an expert. That said, the Paul Chen/Hanwei "Practical" or "Tactical" swords probably represent the minimum I would consider for real-life use. I understand the OP has a budget, but as with many things, you generally get what you pay for and a $1000 sword is going to be noticably better than a $300 sword. If you can't afford at least the cost of a Paul Chen, you are better off not even buying a sword.

If the OP has no previous experince with Japanese swords (which are different in technique and construction that most European swords), you might also consider a wakizashi, instead of a katana. They are of similar construction, but while a katana may have a blade 36" or longer, a wakizashi will generally be closer to 24". Such a smaller blade is both easier to handle, harder to break, and it is also more practical in the typical indoor setting. Finally, it will be a bit cheaper than a longer katana of the same quality.
Click to expand...
Good information. I had considered a shorter 24 inch sword, versus the 30" blade. Still not sure which way I'll go, if I do.

"Better" is subjective. If we compare it to guns, I don't want a Hi Point (low end), but don't need the whistles and bells of a custom 1911 either (high end). I'm looking for a workhorse of a sword that isn't going to be unsafe or have a cheap feel to it, it will keep an edge, and not fall apart (say, like a Glock or XD).

As to the price, I'll say that these firearms companies are churning out guns, which require licensing, lawyers, lawsuit defense, insurance, gun lobbying, $ millions of dollars in research and development, mechanical parts/designs, warranty and customer service issues, US workers, etc. Yet still able to price them at $500... Sword makers have almost none of this, and when you boil it down, again, it's a sharpened piece of steel who's recipe is ancient, made by vastly underpaid international labor...

If it's $500, then so be it.... but I like to know WHY something costs what it costs... and for asian swords it doesn't make sense.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

W
  • Locked
where to sell Katana?
Replies
9
Views
1K
goon
G
MachIVshooter
  • Locked
A tad on the larger side...
Replies
13
Views
1K
hso
hso
B
  • Locked
All you wanted to Know about Swords
Replies
17
Views
954
Marko Kloos
M
D
  • Locked
Do I Really Need Another Knife?
2
Replies
26
Views
5K
ashtxsniper
A
C
  • Locked
I-uh want-a a Mora
Replies
20
Views
2K
hso
hso
Back
Top