00 Buck or Slugs?

[Combat-wombat]

I think we need a good Home Defense shotgun. I'm not sure how soon we'll get it, but I'm hoping we eventually do. I'm thinking of a Mossberg 500 "Persuader"....

Anyway, when or if we do get this shotgun, what ammo would be best for HD, 00 Buck or Slugs? Why? What specific kind/brand of shot/slugs is the best?

 

[MJRW]

00. I think slugs are appropriate if you plan to see many armored criminals or have many Letterman style bear break-ins.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Slugs are nigh useless for HD. As for buck, all 00 is effective, but one brand may pattern much tighter than others in your shotgun and ONLY testing will establish what works best.

Search the archives, there's reams of material on this....

 

[Mike Irwin]

No. 4 buckshot.

27 pellets, substantially more payload weight and a lot more energy delivered to the target.

My home shotgun has 5 Remington No. 4 buck 2 3/4" shells in the tube, with 5 S&B 00 buck (12 pellet loads) in a carrier on the buttstock.

 

[Jim Watson]

Buckshot. I use OO, 'cause I can't find light load OOO.

If I want a rifle, I have them that hold a lot more shots than a shotgun full of slugs.

 

[rayra]

000 or No.4
Good spread, good punch, lessened over-penetration issues.

 

[Tomac]

00 buck for me, don't need the penetration issues w/slugs for HD (but there are slugs stored on the shotgun "just in case"). Once you've decided then purchase several different brands and pattern test them out of your shotgun as shotguns can show a distinct preference for a particular load (mine likes Federal Premium 00 buck the best).
Tomac

 

[Gordon]

Since 00 doesn't seem to stop 150lb leopards, why would I want to use it to stop crack monsters? Jim Cirrullo says:" nothing beats a .73 caliber rifle slug at close range" sounds good to me. BUT I don't live in an apartment, only my wife iand me in house 1000 feet from neighbors.

 

[tiberius]

Slugs are nigh useless for HD.

Useless? There may be better choices, but useless?

 

[Al Thompson]

"nigh" - better than nothing. Depending on your exact circumstances, it could actually be a very bad decision. FWIW, of the 10 or so deer I've either killed or seen killed with slugs, I've never recovered a single slug. If your in an apartment, that over penetration could be deadly to folks down range - like the next door neighbors.

 

[tiberius]

Yeah, I noted the use of "nigh" and I am also aware of the dangers of over-penetration in some environments. This does not make them "nigh useless", however.

Personally I keep my HD SG stoked with 00.

 

[rayra]

Dark, in the home, unknown enemy - the very reasons you want a SCATTERgun. To then stuff it with slugs - singular projectiles - ***'s the point of that?
You want a load that compromises between scatter and penetration/punch.

 

[tiberius]

Dark, in the home, unknown enemy - the very reasons you want a SCATTERgun. To then stuff it with slugs - singular projectiles - ***'s the point of that?

OK I do not disagree with anything you said, but..... How does any of what you said prove that slugs are "nigh useless" ? Are they more useless than my pistol? or a rifle?


I'm not advocating slugs by the way. I just haven't heard ANYTHING that makes them "nigh useless". If I had A SG loaded with slugs and someone broke into my house, I think I would find them pretty darn USEFUL.

 

[98G]

**Dark, in the home, unknown enemy - the very reasons you want a SCATTERgun. To then stuff it with slugs - singular projectiles - ***'s the point of that?
You want a load that compromises between scatter and penetration/punch.**

At inside the house ranges you don't get much spread from anything anyway.....



98G

 

[Al Thompson]

Well, in my humble abode, my longest shot is 15 yards or so. Directly beyond that shot is my neighbor's home. Center punch a bad guy with a slug and it could very possibly go from my home to the guy next doors home with ease. Same/same shot using a lighter load drasticly reduces my chances of having to explain to his Mom why he took a 1 OZ slug in the head. FWIW, my load of choice in the SG that covers that angle is #2 shot as a first up.

Any other place in the house, it's 5 yards max. At 5 yards, a load of #8s spreads about 5 to 7 inches out of my CYL choked SGs. I don't use that load, but it's worth keeping in mind that the average spread of an inch per yard has been very well documented, both here and on TFL.

Bottom line - you have to aim that SG - the "handheld Claymore" beloved of Hollywood is a lie. Fake. Trash. Hocus Pokus.

There's darn little scattter in a scatter gun at HD ranges. Measure your abode's engagement zones and test your combination at the range.

And this also assumes the bad guy holds still while we shoot him. What about misses?

 

[stevelyn]

Since 00Buck dosen't seem to stop 150lb leopard, why would I use it against crack monsters?

Stopping charging leopards out on the Serengeti plain and a crack monster inside your residence are really two different animals.
I can promise you that any crack monster or other two-legged predator solidly hit with 00Buck at room distances is going need a major overhaul on their medical records.

 

[foghornl]

My "HD" shotty is the Maverick 88 by Mossberg, with the 18-1/2" cylinder barrel. Best patterning load I have found so far is the Remmy 3" Mag #4 Buck shot. At 35 yards, 34-37 of the 41 pellets will still be on a 30"x30" square of paper. 00Buck (15-pellet 3"Mag) will only have 1 or 2 on the same paper.

Also, once you obtain your HD shotty, buy a 5 or 10 round box of all the different loads you can find, and pattern test them all. When you find the one load YOUR shotty 'likes' the best, buy a bunch.

That's why I have 250 of the Remmy 3" #4 Buck, and 200 PMC brand slugs.

 

[Badger Arms]

Foghornl:

Did I get you right, you want a shotgun that patterns well at 35 yards? Now, I've got to get me a house your size! Just remember what was said earlier, aim your shotgun inside a house no matter what you think the spread is. Sounds like your charge is going to be in a nice little 2" cluster at typical HD ranges.

 

[Al Thompson]

BA, he, like me, may simply like to plan for both indoor festivities as well as out door "get togethers".

There's a reeason I know the ranges to my prominant land marks in front of my humble abode.

 

[Checkman]

While one has to take into account one's home and all those other factors I don't agree with the statment that slugs and 00 are worthless. Those rounds work if the shotguns are aimed and used correctly. Many a cop, soldier, marine, sailor and armed citizen made it through a scrap with 00 and slugs in their respective shotguns. Worthless?

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

Here lately, I've been staggering Federal #4 Buck;
with 00 Buck, in our Remington 12 gague 870
Marine Magnum.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[Al Thompson]

Checkman, it all depends on the terrain. If your inside a hotel room or apartment, heavy buck shot and slugs may be worse than worthless. They may be considered "reckless" and make you criminally liable..

Folks, we're responsible for every pellet or slug we launch down range - best to know your backstops and plan accordingly. Heck, one of the biggest advantages of a SG is variety of ammo.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Yup, nigh useless. Here's why...

Rottweil Brennekes always exit on broadside shots on good sized deer, and lesser slugs almost do so all the time too. A few layers of drywall do not offer enough resistance,and folks a few walls or buildings away may be endangered.

Outside, it's way different. One may need to place a slug accurately to stop a foe, and we could need to do so through sheet metal or light cover.

But the question here was HD, so performance outside is moot.

Back when Jim Cirillo was part of the NY Stakeout Squad in Harlem, the guys ended up using Ithaca DS pumps with slugs for fast takedowns of armed, drugged and/or insane perps. In some cases, buck just didn't do it.

And while I do not advocate slugs for HD, the Sidesaddle on the HD 870 carries two KO Brenekkes, just in case. Life is uncertain, which is why some of us have guns and train with them.

 

[Ryder]

Are they more useless than my pistol? or a rifle?

Somewhere in between the two. Weight it more toward the rifle. A 3/4 inch hole through and through is definately better than your run of the mill self defense pistol but it wont open up an explosive exit wound the way a rifle tends to at close range. Lessen maybe you hit em in between the eyes.

 

[foghornl]

Badger:

In my particular shotty, the 00/000 go all over the place, while #4 stays fairly tight. My reasoning, which may be faulty, is that if the bad guys take off in their car, going the wrong way, they will have to swoosh around when they get to the cul-de-sac about 5 houses down, and around a 90 degree bend. After they make the turn-around, and the 90 degree bend, they will be 60 yards away, headed toward me. A couple of seconds later, gets real ugly for them.....