Home Defense load
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kmrcstintn
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#9 handicap target loads...they are the best 
Dirty Bob
Member
I chose the largest buckshot available in 2-3/4" shells. Since I use a 20ga., that means #3 Buck. It patterns beautifully in my gun, so I can live with it.
In 12ga., I suggest you start with reduced recoil 00 Buck, and shoot it to see how it shoots out of your gun. If recoil is manageable and patterns are good, congratulations! You have a winner!
Regards,
Dirty Bob
In 12ga., I suggest you start with reduced recoil 00 Buck, and shoot it to see how it shoots out of your gun. If recoil is manageable and patterns are good, congratulations! You have a winner!
Regards,
Dirty Bob
Your fooling yourself if you don't believe BB will not kill a person, and quite elfectively too, esp at the 3 to 10 yards you're likely to be shooting someone inside your house. A friend of mine made extra money during the Vietnam conflict buying 12ga shotguns at the PX and selling them to ROK soldiers his crew flew supplies into. He said these guys would take a hack saw and cut the barrel off just beyond the end of the magazine. He could sell as many shotguns along with a case of shells he could buy at more than double his money. He said the ROK's didn't want and wouldn't take buckshot but asked for BB load bird shot. I'm sure their intent wasn't to wound the enemy.
Check out this website Selecting a Chokeand pay some attention to the charts showing the spread of shot from shotguns of various chokes from NONE (cyl bore) to FULL.
Unless you live in a very large house with lots of open floor space most house and apartment distances you would be be shooting at no more than 10 yds and more likely it would be 5 or less. Even a cylinder bore riot gun only puts out a spread of 20" at 10 yds, 5 yds would be more like 10". Measure the longest shot in your house or apartment and remember the distance is measured from the muzzle of the gun and not where you are standing so subtract at least 1 yd.
Here's a pic of #4 bird shot fired at ballistic gelatin at 3 yards from a cylinder bore 18" Remington 870.
Yet the author concludes that bird shot is somehow ineffective
. I know of no one who would survive a center mass hit with such a load other than wearing body armor. Now put that in a modified or full choke hunting shotgun and you'd get similar results at 10 yds.There's nothing wrong with and many good reasons to choose buckshot in any of its sizes. Buckshot will be effective at much longer distance but realize that any load at house distance will likely kill the person you shoot center mass. There's no guaranteed just wound 'em or scare 'em rounds using shot of any size at such close range.
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alaskanativeson
Member
#4 Buckshot would be my first choice for home defense load in most situations. You give up very little in distance or stopping power but you reduce the possibility for over-penetration.
In my current situation, my home defense loads start with 2 rifled slugs followed by 6 loads of 00 Buck. Of course being where I am, the shotgun is loaded for bears rather than invaders. That's what my .45 is for.
On the topic of shoot to wound, I'd suggest some discussion with firearms trainers and/or defense experts. Feel free to PM me if you want a more detailed explanation of my beliefs about this.
In my current situation, my home defense loads start with 2 rifled slugs followed by 6 loads of 00 Buck. Of course being where I am, the shotgun is loaded for bears rather than invaders. That's what my .45 is for.
On the topic of shoot to wound, I'd suggest some discussion with firearms trainers and/or defense experts. Feel free to PM me if you want a more detailed explanation of my beliefs about this.
sm
member
Slugs are my preference.
I have seen buckshot fail, including the longer shells.
I see no reason than to use anything but 2 3/4" shells anyway.
Environment will dictate , so one is wise to investigate and verify their mindset, skill sets and what their gun does with a load at known yardage.
One is responsible for each projectile fired .
Now projectiles deflect upon some media, such as glass.
My lessons dealt with my concerns not only for home, also business settings.
So many of you probably will not be concerned with shooting through a one way mirror.
How about those nice glass doors that separate dining room from the kitchen, or den or...
Glass deflects, slugs and FMJ deflect less.
My lessons dealt with my lady partner for instance being held by a Bad Guy and I had to take the shot. I do not want to hit my partner, so a slug lessons that chance if I do my part.
Lessons were a BG shooting and using cover, and perhaps me going through the kitchen cabinet where the colanders, and pots and pans kept.
Heck, even the drywall, as he exposed himself enough...or just going for the kneecap exposed
Shooting lanes, cover, concealment, back stops all being part of the toolbox, just not only the gun and load.
I have seen the fella take a 3" load of buckshot and live. I have also seen a 3.5" load of buckshot not stop a 70 pound dawg.
I like slugs best...just me.
I have seen buckshot fail, including the longer shells.
I see no reason than to use anything but 2 3/4" shells anyway.
Environment will dictate , so one is wise to investigate and verify their mindset, skill sets and what their gun does with a load at known yardage.
One is responsible for each projectile fired .
Now projectiles deflect upon some media, such as glass.
My lessons dealt with my concerns not only for home, also business settings.
So many of you probably will not be concerned with shooting through a one way mirror.
How about those nice glass doors that separate dining room from the kitchen, or den or...
Glass deflects, slugs and FMJ deflect less.
My lessons dealt with my lady partner for instance being held by a Bad Guy and I had to take the shot. I do not want to hit my partner, so a slug lessons that chance if I do my part.
Lessons were a BG shooting and using cover, and perhaps me going through the kitchen cabinet where the colanders, and pots and pans kept.
Heck, even the drywall, as he exposed himself enough...or just going for the kneecap exposed
Shooting lanes, cover, concealment, back stops all being part of the toolbox, just not only the gun and load.
I have seen the fella take a 3" load of buckshot and live. I have also seen a 3.5" load of buckshot not stop a 70 pound dawg.
I like slugs best...just me.
chuckusaret
member
Steve is correct. Using a 12gauge 20" barrel shotgun loaded with BB at 10 to 15 feet the shot pattern would be 3 to 5" and chest hit would be deadly.
I don't trust reduced velocity buck. Even with tactical loads that have the cup for tight patterns, I want the full power loads.
I do however trust reduced recoil slugs out to about 50 meters, where it will still be over 1000fps. To me, that is essentially just a big, soft-lead, nasty .73 caliber pistol round.
Full power slugs IMO have much more recoil than full power buck (2 3/4") and the reduction in recoil is worth it with slugs. My choice is the reduced velocity hydra shocked federal tactical slug.
Past 50 meters, in a combat situation, I want a rifle, not a smoothbore de facto musket anyways. Man, I got off track here...
I do however trust reduced recoil slugs out to about 50 meters, where it will still be over 1000fps. To me, that is essentially just a big, soft-lead, nasty .73 caliber pistol round.
Full power slugs IMO have much more recoil than full power buck (2 3/4") and the reduction in recoil is worth it with slugs. My choice is the reduced velocity hydra shocked federal tactical slug.
Past 50 meters, in a combat situation, I want a rifle, not a smoothbore de facto musket anyways. Man, I got off track here...
heavyshooter
Member
First shot is Remington Low Recoil #4 birdshot. The rest of the tube is filled with Federal LE Low Recoil 00 Buckshot with Flite Control. I do not know why I have #4 Birdshot up first in the pipe. I am fully aware that at HD distances it will be lethal more often than not. I guess I do it because it will give the intruder some chance of survival; 00 Buck will not!!!
inSight-NEO
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Why dont you trust reduced velocity buckshot? From what I gather, low recoil 00-Buck has a velocity of over 1100 fps. Is this not enough? And those slugs you prefer; Better not miss...for several obvious reasons.
Yes..and it will give the intruder, or his/her family, a greater chance of hauling you to court for a civil lawsuit. Besides, while #4 increases the odds of survival, within typical HD ranges, these odds arent great. I think more people are concerned about the penetration characteristics of 00 Buckshot vs #4 Birdshot, more than the killing aspects of these rounds. I tend to favor low recoil 00 Buckshot regardless.
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guntotinguy
Member
#4 Buck inside the house...and if needs be Fiocchi low recoil 00 buck outside.
CoRoMo
Member
Both, and alternate them in the magazine... if that is the type of gun you have. What type did you get anyway?
chuckusaret
member
My attorney has recommended that if I experience a home invasion and shots are fired, the best thing to do is call 911 and KMFMS until he is on site.
Mike U.
Member
chuckusaret wrote:
chuckusaret,
Would you decipher KMFMS for me, please?
I am my village's idiot...
chuckusaret,
Would you decipher KMFMS for me, please?
I am my village's idiot...
I am cheep as I use the N0-7 bird shot for in the house. Short range its still in the cup and acts just like a slug. Short range in the house deals what the load is tends to be pretty moot unless you have a really big living room.
Doc_Jude
Member
I can't believe that ANYONE HERE actually plans on shooting someone with a sub-standard load (birdshot) in order to "give the perp at least some chance to survive".
What complete and utter ignorance. First off, this is in complete violation of an etched-in-stone cardinal rule: DON'T POINT A GUN AT SOMETHING THAT YOU AREN'T INTENT ON DESTROYING.
Second... a living perp gets a criminal defense lawyer. I know that I certainly don't want any of that trouble.
Okay, here's my .02 cents (a quarter too late, I suppose):
If this is indeed for "home defense", measure the longest distance that you're planning on shooting. It may be somewhere between the longest hall in your home and from your house to your property line, I have no idea. Depending on your State, it will vary what you are planning on.
Anyways, get that distance out on the range and pattern your gun with all different sizes of Buck, from #4 up to #00 or #000. If you're looking at the longest hall in the house, you will most likely not notice much of a change in the pattern, as the shot will be moving in a column of supersonic metal. Either hit them with 8 or 9 .30-something caliber shot or a 27 count of .24 caliber shot.
You're responsible for EVERYTHING you put downrange, remember that when you're thinking about a home-defense load. If you over-pen with a slug and it kills your neighbor's baby, you're going up the river. If just one of your #000 shot does the same thing, you're going up the river. #4 Buck LE rounds were specifically developed to do the job of big buckshot at close ranges such as breaching homes or apartments calls for, while preventing over-penetration.
Look Here:
#4 Buckshot Description
Oh, & GOOD LUCK!
What complete and utter ignorance. First off, this is in complete violation of an etched-in-stone cardinal rule: DON'T POINT A GUN AT SOMETHING THAT YOU AREN'T INTENT ON DESTROYING.
Second... a living perp gets a criminal defense lawyer. I know that I certainly don't want any of that trouble.
Okay, here's my .02 cents (a quarter too late, I suppose):
If this is indeed for "home defense", measure the longest distance that you're planning on shooting. It may be somewhere between the longest hall in your home and from your house to your property line, I have no idea. Depending on your State, it will vary what you are planning on.
Anyways, get that distance out on the range and pattern your gun with all different sizes of Buck, from #4 up to #00 or #000. If you're looking at the longest hall in the house, you will most likely not notice much of a change in the pattern, as the shot will be moving in a column of supersonic metal. Either hit them with 8 or 9 .30-something caliber shot or a 27 count of .24 caliber shot.
You're responsible for EVERYTHING you put downrange, remember that when you're thinking about a home-defense load. If you over-pen with a slug and it kills your neighbor's baby, you're going up the river. If just one of your #000 shot does the same thing, you're going up the river. #4 Buck LE rounds were specifically developed to do the job of big buckshot at close ranges such as breaching homes or apartments calls for, while preventing over-penetration.
Look Here:
#4 Buckshot Description
Oh, & GOOD LUCK!
I keep the HD gun filled with full-power federal tactical buck, the one with the cup.
I prefer the full power buck as it is fine recoil-wise with my specops, so I will take the extra power. The RR slugs seem to be about on a par recoil wise with the full power buck, so I used to have them on the sidesaddle. Full power slugs are just a bear IMO. The "kinetic energy of a freight train" to quote another, but the recoil to match.
Now, I have taken off the sidesaddle at least temporarily, so I don't have anything other than the previously mentioned buckshot with the gun. My reload is a transition to handgun.
I prefer the full power buck as it is fine recoil-wise with my specops, so I will take the extra power. The RR slugs seem to be about on a par recoil wise with the full power buck, so I used to have them on the sidesaddle. Full power slugs are just a bear IMO. The "kinetic energy of a freight train" to quote another, but the recoil to match.
Now, I have taken off the sidesaddle at least temporarily, so I don't have anything other than the previously mentioned buckshot with the gun. My reload is a transition to handgun.
76shuvlinoff
Member
In the event I grab my 870 and level it at a threat the over penetration scenario is virtually a non issue because of where and how I live. If a threat truly exists I must stop it, body armor or not. My first round is a slug because I mean it.
.02
.02
punkndisorderly
Member
Reduced recoil 00 Buck for me. I used to alternate buck, slug, buck etc. However, after taking into account how much slugs penetrate, the maximum range I'd be shooting in a home defense situtation, and how little difference there is between reduced recoil buck and regular buck at HD ranges I now just load up with reduced recoil buck.
Most of you have probably seen this, but for those who are new (or haven't seen it) this is a fairly interesting test of shotgun penetration: http://http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
The summary: Slug will go through 6+ interior walls, buckshot will go through 3-4, #4 and #1 will go through 3. (All assuming not hitting studs, furniture, etc).
Most of you have probably seen this, but for those who are new (or haven't seen it) this is a fairly interesting test of shotgun penetration: http://http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
The summary: Slug will go through 6+ interior walls, buckshot will go through 3-4, #4 and #1 will go through 3. (All assuming not hitting studs, furniture, etc).
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357wheelgunner
Member
Gelatin doesn't have bones. That shot is survivable to the abdomen, the only place on the human body that would actually be penetrated that deep. Birdshot is not a fight stopping load. It makes mess, aweful looking, but very survivable and superficial wounds.
Can we get a sticky thread about HD loadings please?
edited to add:
A slug won't go through body armor. IIIA vest will stop all handgun and shotgun rounds. A shotgun slug doesn't have enough sectional density to penetrate, but I'm sure it would hurt like hell anyway.
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