RockyMtnTactical
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I like the 1/8 the best. I wish this was THE standard.
1:8 or 1:9
- Thread starter bigred94
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Maverick223
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Red, be aware that some 77gr bullets will require a 1:7 or better to stabilize properly.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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That's an extremely long ways for a "real" rifle caliber, let alone a short/mid range caliber. If you're really and truly trying to stretch the .223 rem into that long / very long range role (for some odd reason), the answer is clearly "none of the above" - 1 in 7" twist for crazy long bullets in the 80-100 gr range.
Or, you could make your life simpler, your face smilier, and your targets better by just getting the caliber to handle the job (.243 Win or larger).
Maverick223
Member
Eh, the 6.5Grendel will get the job done, and still fit in the AR-15 upper.
kriegerbarrels.com, but you'll need to plop it in an upper (or have a gunsmith do likewise), I would suggest a really good bbl for that range...or really big targets.
someone forgot to tell this guy about the limitations
http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/shooting-223-mile-1.php
Maverick223
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A bull bbl (or other heavy profile) will have a greater stiffness and moment of inertia than a smaller profile, fluting the barrel can also help as it relieves a little weight (which can make it have better resilience to flexure as it heats up, and making it lighter to carry) for a better strength to weight ratio, and has a greater surface area (for faster cooling, but at the expense of less capacitance making it also heat up more rapidly). In an AR-15 you are limited in your barrel profile choices, but for distance varmint/target shooting I would want a Krieger 1:7" (or 1:6.5") heavy fluted barrel in chrome molybdenum (I'm not real big on SS but don't really have a problem with it) with a Wylde chamber (so you can still plink with cheap ammo).
T.A.Sharps
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It should be said that the thinner a barrel, the faster it will heat up.
This is important to consider because if the heats up, it will change how it flexes and vibrates through a shot. And they all do, if you ever youtube some high speed video of guns shooting you will see how they flex and warp.
If you change how the barrel vibrates, you change at what position the bullet leaves the barrel, during the flexing and vibrating, changing your impact point.
If your barrel is short and fat, it will be really stiff, and vibrate very little, and accuracy would be less susceptible to this problem.
Free floating is also related to this, if part of your for-stock warps, like wood in heat and moisture, it will touch the barrel differently, and affect the vibrations. It is also why you never rest your barrel on something when you shoot.
Also, I would like to add that the benefit on flutes is still in controversy.
Some say it actually doesn't add to stiffness, but takes away from it since you are taking away material.
...as well as the weight factor is not enough to make a difference in how much you feel holding it.
Few other things, but you can look them up.
Personally, I don't know, I have not experienced them enough to say, but they seem like an added variable to your barrel's quality, so I rather stick to the tired and true.
This is important to consider because if the heats up, it will change how it flexes and vibrates through a shot. And they all do, if you ever youtube some high speed video of guns shooting you will see how they flex and warp.
If you change how the barrel vibrates, you change at what position the bullet leaves the barrel, during the flexing and vibrating, changing your impact point.
If your barrel is short and fat, it will be really stiff, and vibrate very little, and accuracy would be less susceptible to this problem.
Free floating is also related to this, if part of your for-stock warps, like wood in heat and moisture, it will touch the barrel differently, and affect the vibrations. It is also why you never rest your barrel on something when you shoot.
Also, I would like to add that the benefit on flutes is still in controversy.
Some say it actually doesn't add to stiffness, but takes away from it since you are taking away material.
...as well as the weight factor is not enough to make a difference in how much you feel holding it.
Few other things, but you can look them up.
Personally, I don't know, I have not experienced them enough to say, but they seem like an added variable to your barrel's quality, so I rather stick to the tired and true.
Maverick223
Member
It is controversial, but there is no question that it can make the barrel stiffer, due to reducing its own weight at the muzzle, if fluted properly (but it can be weaker if fluted incorrectly) as well as make the rifle significantly lighter.
Rate of Twist
I have heard that the tighter the twist rate, it is going to start to restrict how low you can step down in bullet weight also; I'm not sure if that's a factor for you. I have a buddy who claims that when he replaced his regular barrel 1:9 to a 1:7 he couldn't shoot his lower weight varmint loads any longer because the twist rate was causing the jackets to spin off the bullet before it got to the target. I don't know if that was an ammo issue or if there was some reality to it. He said he was shooting 50 grain American Eagle BTHP's. I've shot American Eagle and they seem to be high quality ammo to me. I have also been told that tighter twist rates do take "punch" off the bullet. It was explained to me as such: A powder charge in a round only has so much energy it can produce -- firing the same ammo through two different barrels with regard to twist rate will result in different results. Let's for example use 1:7 vs 1:9. Same ammo fired through those barrels at the same let's say 300 yards will result in the 1:9 round being quicker but less accurate; it will also carry slightly more energy down range -- reason for that being less energy is being expended in spinning that round in order to stabilize it. The faster the round spins, typically the greater the accuracy, however you do sacrifice a little speed and "punch".
I have heard that the tighter the twist rate, it is going to start to restrict how low you can step down in bullet weight also; I'm not sure if that's a factor for you. I have a buddy who claims that when he replaced his regular barrel 1:9 to a 1:7 he couldn't shoot his lower weight varmint loads any longer because the twist rate was causing the jackets to spin off the bullet before it got to the target. I don't know if that was an ammo issue or if there was some reality to it. He said he was shooting 50 grain American Eagle BTHP's. I've shot American Eagle and they seem to be high quality ammo to me. I have also been told that tighter twist rates do take "punch" off the bullet. It was explained to me as such: A powder charge in a round only has so much energy it can produce -- firing the same ammo through two different barrels with regard to twist rate will result in different results. Let's for example use 1:7 vs 1:9. Same ammo fired through those barrels at the same let's say 300 yards will result in the 1:9 round being quicker but less accurate; it will also carry slightly more energy down range -- reason for that being less energy is being expended in spinning that round in order to stabilize it. The faster the round spins, typically the greater the accuracy, however you do sacrifice a little speed and "punch".
thanks for all the help once again i know the 223 is not best for a 1k shoot but i want a new task. i shoot a 308 at 1k and its down to a science so i want something new, hints all the guestions on twist rates and barrels. please dont stop with the feedback, its all been alot of help.
Maverick223
Member
True, spin it too fast and it will actually spin apart in flight. I wouldn't try anything sub-55gr. in a 1:7" or 1:6.5" twist (and you may have to use 62gr.+ for the 6.5" twist), but for reaching out that far you really need all the advantage you can get from those wee-bore poodle poppers. My thoughts are go with a 1:7" if you want to "try out" 1000yds and 1:6.5" if you are serious about reaching out that far (and intent on using the .22cal to do it). For typical "informal shooting", plinking, light varmint hunting and the like (which is all I use my .223 for) a 1:9" is my personal choice. It sounds like your buddy uses his likewise and would have probably been better served by the 1:9" (or 1:8") as well.Mr. T said:
Mista Tee; by any chance do you load up on gold chains and have a peculiar fondness for Mini-14s?
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